(L+CR) Hibike! Euphonium [anime]

[Esclair]

^Truly genius.

[DragoonKain3]

Finally, weekend is done! Looks like most people moved on, but to whoever wants to discuss things further, I'm willing to oblige.

Originally Posted by Akuma Kinomoto

Reina's infatuation with Taki is brought up as a matter of fact and technically correct. But the way Reina says 'I love Taki' is blunt while most every time she talks with Kumiko there's a pain and passion in her voice; there's an emotional resonance here that better works for romance, or rather, the show works differently in practice than it does on paper.

The point was if there was minimal build-up or not. Considering that this was the show's most foreshadowed plot point, I think it was anything BUT minimal.

Btw, if we're bringing in the LNs, then things are really not on your side. Or at the very least, KyoAni be goofing up hard.

I unfortunately can't do moonrunes, unlike a lot of people here. Same reason why I had to ask what "Umaku ni naritai!" can be translated last episode. So I know jack about the LN, which I'm thankful for since I love having the anime version as my first intro to ANY series.

-----------------------------

Originally Posted by Triple_R

They dropped a couple hints. Reina said "Taki-Sensei is awesome!" in Episode 4, and Reina asked Kumiko's opinion on Taki in Episode 5. This is slightly suggestive, but it could easily be interpreted as just simple admiration.

Dammit, almost missed you since you changed your avatar.

Ok, back on topic. Episode 3 had Reina going bonkers upon hearing Shuichi and Kumiko bad-mouthing Taki. Episode 5 also had that Rikka student mention that Kousaka turned down an invitation to their high school, where the girl even suggests that the reason why Kousaka went to Kitauji is to follow 'hot guys'. Even episode 8 had Kousaka say she likes the shrine better than the festival because it's more 'classy and grownup', further hinting on what kind of things she is into. Then as I said, episode 9 recaps it all together.

All of these hints I posted about at the episodes they aired as well (apart from the episode 8 because by episode 5 I thought everyone got it already). So it's not something I did in hindsight either... if more than half the episodes (3-5, 8-9) leading up to it are repeatedly 'hammering' at the same implication, then it's anything BUT minimal.

It wasn't a "one-minute recap". It was only 20 seconds, if that, I just checked. And it came after Kumiko talked with her sister about Taki in general. So the way that it was framed was more "Taki-sensei's that big a deal, huh?" (Kumiko's verbatim dialogue) than about anything romantic specifically.

You should start counting the time when Kumiko's sister just came in. We already knew Taki sensei is new (from when he was introduced), and we already knew Taki sensei is special (from Reina's outburst and our own first hand experience). Heck, she even goes to suggest that it won't be long until people go to Kitauji SPECIFICALLY for him.

There was nothing new learned from that scene apart from the fact that Taki's dad was also an instructor, and wasting 40 seconds on a piece of info that's largely irrelevant to the plot makes no sense from a writing persepective. As such, it could be taken that the whole time her sister was talking to Kumiko was actually a more cleverly disguised recap, driving home the fact that Taki is THAT impressive.

So 40 seconds of recap about Taki, which led to 20 seconds recap of Reina. The former was with the "in-universe" suggestion that people might go to Kitauji specifically for him, and the latter includes the scene with the "in-universe" suggestion that maybe Reina went to Kitauji because of 'hot guys'. Put it together, and it's pretty much as close as you can get to "Reina LOVES Taki big-time that she followed him to Kitauji" apart from Reina outright confessing it.

So I think you're overstating how effective this was as foreshadowing for Reina's Episode 10 reveal.

If 1 minute, heck, even the 20 seconds alone should trigger major warning bells; that all these might be of great significant importance the next episode. Foreshadowing is subtle, and doing a recap of these subtle things means the writer wants the audience to make especial note of them.

There ideally would have been some actual meaningful interaction shown between Reina and Taki leading up to this.

That's the thing. Reina --> Taki is supposed to be a secret, so the hints and the build-up to it are going to be anything BUT obvious.

I'm even surprised they did the recap, as no other book, show, or anime from memory has every done a recap of all the previous hints before. It makes what is supposed to be 'not obvious' to be brought to the forefront, as if the author is telling us these are the 'build-up' we might have missed before. I personally thought that doing the recap was overkill, but I guess it really was needed after all. :shrug:

We have an episode or two left, and a lot left to cover. Unless I missed some announcement from KyoAni, there is no guarantee of Hibike getting anything beyond this season.

With the BD sales, quite unlikely actually. Movie might be a possibility, as Tamako Market had half the sales and yet still got one. So maybe Hibike gets two? Who knows.

A lot of people seem to expect more beyond this season, and if we do get more that would probably be great, but what if it doesn't happen? I'm a strong believer that an anime adaptation ought to be able to stand on its own, and work well on its own.

Same here, but it's anime we're talking about. So many people are moaning about next season of Spice and Wolf, Kizumonogatari, or if Natsume Yuujinchou will ever get another cour. Some times, you can see over the horizon of 'what might be' even though what you have is already pretty good.

Having a major character reveal romantic interest in another major character, and then go absolutely nowhere with it in the time allotted, really doesn't sound like good romance handling to me.

I think you're going at it wrong here. This isn't really a romance title. It's a sports title masquerading as a music series (I'm not the only one here who thinks this has A LOT of parallels with baseball stories in particular). And if you've ever read any of those, if they have romance, it's usually really REALLY drawn out. As such, expecting the romance to go anywhere so soon after revealing it, just cheapens the reveal and hurts the overall story, as romance isn't its main focus.

Regardless, this is anime we're talking about. Because of constraints such as budget or the source still on going, a lot of times they can only animate up to a certain part of the story. So if the source is calling for a major reveal at a certain point but no time to properly resolve it (because the source is planning to resolve it in a future iteration and is only introducing it at that point), the animators can only be true to the source or go for an anime original ending. Considering that the latter tend to be the worst endings an anime can have, I'd rather have them leave it up in the air in hopes it will be properly animated in the future. Hibike wouldn't be the first anime to do so, and certainly won't be the last.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Snip.

So, who is Sapphire dressed as? Nagisa Momoe?

[ices]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

With the BD sales, quite unlikely actually. Movie might be a possibility, as Tamako Market had half the sales and yet still got one. So maybe Hibike gets two? Who knows.

Love your reasoning here. I hope Hibike got triple Tamako Market's sales so we could get three movies instead, one for each novel
Anyway, it's should be noted that that the sales number might be not quite accurate since we didn't get the one from KyoAni Shop.

[Stark700]

Final episode PV

[Dharma]

Not confident about speaker identification

Spoiler for translation:

Haruka?
-That time we enjoyed so much... it is going to end.
-If only summer could last forever
Gotou
-It will be all right.
Reina
-Good luck to us with the real thing.
Midori
-I am so looking forward to it!
Shuuichi
-It will be all right. We practiced so hard, aren't we?
Taki
-Are we finished our preparations to make the hall say "wow"?
Kumiko
-I will go to nationals!
Haruka
-Kitauji fight!

[Vaans]

Rejoice! Kumiko's ponytail is back!

[Marina2]

There is a little hint of SS2 (a hint that novel vol.2 might get anime adaptation) in that PV.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

The point was if there was minimal build-up or not. Considering that this was the show's most foreshadowed plot point, I think it was anything BUT minimal.

A few moments of foreshadowing =/= a large portion of what the show focused on.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I unfortunately can't do moonrunes, unlike a lot of people here. Same reason why I had to ask what "Umaku ni naritai!" can be translated last episode. So I know jack about the LN, which I'm thankful for since I love having the anime version as my first intro to ANY series.

You mentioned the LN, not I.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Ok, back on topic. Episode 3 had Reina going bonkers upon hearing Shuichi and Kumiko bad-mouthing Taki. Episode 5 also had that Rikka student mention that Kousaka turned down an invitation to their high school, where the girl even suggests that the reason why Kousaka went to Kitauji is to follow 'hot guys'. Even episode 8 had Kousaka say she likes the shrine better than the festival because it's more 'classy and grownup', further hinting on what kind of things she is into. Then as I said, episode 9 recaps it all together.

All of these hints I posted about at the episodes they aired as well (apart from the episode 8 because by episode 5 I thought everyone got it already). So it's not something I did in hindsight either... if more than half the episodes (3-5, 8-9) leading up to it are repeatedly 'hammering' at the same implication, then it's anything BUT minimal.

You should start counting the time when Kumiko's sister just came in. We already knew Taki sensei is new (from when he was introduced), and we already knew Taki sensei is special (from Reina's outburst and our own first hand experience). Heck, she even goes to suggest that it won't be long until people go to Kitauji SPECIFICALLY for him.

There was nothing new learned from that scene apart from the fact that Taki's dad was also an instructor, and wasting 40 seconds on a piece of info that's largely irrelevant to the plot makes no sense from a writing persepective. As such, it could be taken that the whole time her sister was talking to Kumiko was actually a more cleverly disguised recap, driving home the fact that Taki is THAT impressive.

So 40 seconds of recap about Taki, which led to 20 seconds recap of Reina. The former was with the "in-universe" suggestion that people might go to Kitauji specifically for him, and the latter includes the scene with the "in-universe" suggestion that maybe Reina went to Kitauji because of 'hot guys'. Put it together, and it's pretty much as close as you can get to "Reina LOVES Taki big-time that she followed him to Kitauji" apart from Reina outright confessing it.

If 1 minute, heck, even the 20 seconds alone should trigger major warning bells; that all these might be of great significant importance the next episode. Foreshadowing is subtle, and doing a recap of these subtle things means the writer wants the audience to make especial note of them.

That's the thing. Reina --> Taki is supposed to be a secret, so the hints and the build-up to it are going to be anything BUT obvious.

I'm even surprised they did the recap, as no other book, show, or anime from memory has every done a recap of all the previous hints before. It makes what is supposed to be 'not obvious' to be brought to the forefront, as if the author is telling us these are the 'build-up' we might have missed before. I personally thought that doing the recap was overkill, but I guess it really was needed after all. :shrug:

With the BD sales, quite unlikely actually. Movie might be a possibility, as Tamako Market had half the sales and yet still got one. So maybe Hibike gets two? Who knows.

Same here, but it's anime we're talking about. So many people are moaning about next season of Spice and Wolf, Kizumonogatari, or if Natsume Yuujinchou will ever get another cour. Some times, you can see over the horizon of 'what might be' even though what you have is already pretty good.

I think you're going at it wrong here. This isn't really a romance title. It's a sports title masquerading as a music series (I'm not the only one here who thinks this has A LOT of parallels with baseball stories in particular). And if you've ever read any of those, if they have romance, it's usually really REALLY drawn out. As such, expecting the romance to go anywhere so soon after revealing it, just cheapens the reveal and hurts the overall story, as romance isn't its main focus.

Regardless, this is anime we're talking about. Because of constraints such as budget or the source still on going, a lot of times they can only animate up to a certain part of the story. So if the source is calling for a major reveal at a certain point but no time to properly resolve it (because the source is planning to resolve it in a future iteration and is only introducing it at that point), the animators can only be true to the source or go for an anime original ending. Considering that the latter tend to be the worst endings an anime can have, I'd rather have them leave it up in the air in hopes it will be properly animated in the future. Hibike wouldn't be the first anime to do so, and certainly won't be the last.

The nature of Reina's infatuation with Taki makes sense, but the issue is the facts of her character don't align with her emotions. KyoAni wants Reina to be smitten with Taki while romantically framing what's supposed to be only a strong friendship with Kumiko. On paper, the show is about fire forged friendships through musical trials. In practice, it's a lopsided love lore that KyoAni has no business leaving ambiguous, or they shouldn't have framed Kumiko and Reina's relationship with a romantic lens at all, if the band drama is the story's focal point. As far as general storytelling goes, the first season of Haruhi, Clannad, and Chuunibyou all ended conclusively, thus we hold KyoAni accountable to focus on the present story without betting on a second season or film later.

Sound! Euphonium's narrative quality depends on how well KyoAni can handle themselves after writing the show into a corner. And btw, bringing up the source to excuse the show's faults is not a valid rebuttal if we're focused on the anime only (and if we're bringing in the source, then KyoAni's creative liberties are shortsighted).

I suppose the conversation over the past month has reminded me that people need only >0% to believe a het pairing but demand 100% for a same-sex pairing. Well now.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

that Rikka student

Okay, I'm reeeeeaaaaaally tempted to change my signature to a picture of Azusa with her name across the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Marina2

There is a little hint of SS2 (a hint that novel vol.2 might get anime adaptation) in that PV.

Good!


I think I'm getting pre-perfomance uncertainties in their place. The soundtrack track list all but confirms they do amazing, and clearly they must as the story demands they at least perform in the Nationals, not to mention KyoAni already took the liberty (their biggest by far) in K-ON! of making the first season's finale performance amazing, when the manga actually had it be terrible (for comedy), so there's no chance that would happen here.

But... the episode is titled "Goodbye Competition". Guys. Help.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

I think I'm getting pre-perfomance uncertainties in their place. The soundtrack track list all but confirms they do amazing, and clearly they must as the story demands they at least perform in the Nationals, not to mention KyoAni already took the liberty (their biggest by far) in K-ON! of making the first season's finale performance amazing, when the manga actually had it be terrible (for comedy), so there's no chance that would happen here.

But... the episode is titled "Goodbye Competition". Guys. Help.

This is the last broadcast episode of the season. After that, is an OVA to round out the number of episodes per disc volume.

And, of course they're going to do amazing here. They have to, if they're going to reach Nationals. Remember that this competition isn't the national competition, but a regional one. Also, they're going to have to do well here because all of that character development Kumiko experiences would be for naught if she ends up with another "dud" gold.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by GMT

This is the last broadcast episode of the season. After that, is an OVA to round out the number of episodes per disc volume.

And, of course they're going to do amazing here. They have to, if they're going to reach Nationals. Remember that this competition isn't the national competition, but a regional one. Also, they're going to have to do well here because all of that character development Kumiko experiences would be for naught if she ends up with another "dud" gold.

The rational part of me knows all this, while the irrational part is all "The end is nigh!".

It's not even the Regionals yet either, just the Prefecture level.


Let's offset this by having way too many cute band members in the same picture:

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[blakstealth]

God, so many.

I always thought that girl in the middle with the two cinnabuns was cute, but then I realized that she gossips too much.

[chaosprophet]

Very late to the party (had a busy week), watched episode 12 just now. Another great episode. Nice to see Kumiko connecting to what Reina have said back then, And kudos to Taki, his words there at the end were great.

And now the romance is resolved. Forget Suuichi or Reina, Kumiko loves the Euph. Wait.... Asuka loves the Euph too!? A love triangle is born.

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

The rational part of me knows all this, while the irrational part is all "The end is nigh!".

That's great. So instead of just thinking they will obvious pass to the regional level, you will feel the tension during the whole episode and likely feel as happy as the characters when they announce the result.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

God, so many.

I always thought that girl in the middle with the two cinnabuns was cute, but then I realized that she gossips too much.

The Bassoon pair and asymmetric-hair Tenor Sax girl are my favourite side characters.

LOL that's great.

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

And now the romance is resolved. Forget Suuichi or Reina, Kumiko loves the Euph. Wait.... Asuka loves the Euph too!? A love triangle is born.


That's great. So instead of just thinking they will obvious pass to the regional level, you will feel the tension during the whole episode and likely feel as happy as the characters when they announce the result.

Euph can share. I sense fanart of this at some point. :3 On that note, I just discovered a very good (and lewd, though in the pinup poster sense) Asuka fanart. I'm not gonna link it, but I assume you all know where to look for such things; she's on a bed holding Euphonium-san. It's good enough I felt like actually bringing it up specifically.


That's very true! It's also why I tend to favour stories on the cheerful, optimistic, or at least happy ending end of the spectrum.



Edit: Requesting translation help for the school playing The Fairest Of The Fair March.

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[deadite]

That Volume 2/Season 2 tease in the PV.

[Proto]

@BleedingUranium: It reads Sunrise festival.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by Proto

@BleedingUranium: It reads Sunrise festival.

Thanks, that explains why they're not credited on the soundtrack. But we get to see a bunch of other random school names, even though we don't even see them perform. >.>

Originally Posted by deadite

That Volume 2/Season 2 tease in the PV.

You're the second to say that, but I missed it. Is it a spoiler?

I love the Natsuki / Hazuki high five.

[deadite]

Originally Posted by BleedingUranium

Thanks, that explains why they're not credited on the soundtrack. But we get to see a bunch of other random school names, even though we don't even see them perform. >.>





You're the second to say that, but I missed it. Is it a spoiler?

I love the Natsuki / Hazuki high five.

Let's just say every person shown in that PV has some prominence in the show.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by deadite

Let's just say every person shown in that PV has some prominence in the show.

Everyone in it (in the foreground at least) was some form of main character except Mizore Yoroizuka, the Oboe player. It was mentioned before that she has some screen time (well, page time) in the later novels, and while that doesn't seem like much of a hint, I'll take whatever season 2 teases I can get.