AnimeSuki Forums

Nih · 2009-07-03, 07:30

Yes, I'd have to agree that the "unfortunate incident" is most likely natural. Of course there are as many truths as there are witch hunters. For example, in the third game there are two accounts of the events that transpired on Rokkenjima.

I don't think whoever wrote those messages knew (or was smart enough to know) all the possible ways the witch hunters could interpret them later. However, in the spirit of keeping things uncertain, it may be possible that whoever read those acounts afterwards, realized just how many different interpretations could exist and decided to make a "joke" out of it. Of course humans have the tendency to assume the worst case scenarios, thus legends with witches are born

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-03, 07:38

This does in fact support some theory regarding people surviving and being revived in the Golden Land. It might even not be to take the term of dying and reviving into the Golden Land as a literal sense. In fact, as poems and epitaphs tend to be metaphoric as someone pointed out here....

We could surmise that the terms of "dying and reviving" might actually refer to the metaphoric "death of trust" and subsequent "revival of trust". When I think about it, solving the riddle started out as a group effort. Even when it was only Eva in the end who figured it out, it was because Rosa and Eva somewhat cooperated and trusted each other that they found the gold through the epitaph, and perhaps even Kuwadorian itself. When cracks formed in their relationship, all hell breaks loose again. Even if Eva didn't know the way to Kuwadorian at that time, it can be assumed that she would have found the way there eventually.

Furthermore, if the people trusted each other and cooperated rather than fall into suspicion and paranioa, it would be realistically possible for Eva to lead them all to the Kuwadorian where they'd all be safe.

Thus from a realist POV, Kuwadorian could be the metaphorical Golden Land because it is there that people will live through the disaster. If we were to strictly say that there really is a killer, then Kuwadorian serves as the place where the killer cannot get to them.

As such it leads me to a single conclusion: That Kuwadorian could serve as the Golden Land because it is there that people will be saved from this natural or man-made disaster only through a revival of trust and cooperation, the biggest thing sorely lacking between the survivors. This is only possible by solving the riddle and trusting each other to get all of them there.

In other words, the epitaph symbolically serves as a message of hope: that only by trusting your friends and family and unravelling the mystery as a unit can the riddle be deciphered, and the ultimate reward is survival.

Renall · 2009-07-03, 12:39

The one problem is, somebody outside the island is influencing the events that happen on it. If nothing else, the payoff safes are really suspicious and suggest that a force outside the island and not present on it wants somebody who is on the island to do... well, something. It may not simply be enough to keep the family members from killing each other if somebody like Nanjo is being bribed/blackmailed for some unknown purpose.

LyricalAura · 2009-07-03, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

The one problem is, somebody outside the island is influencing the events that happen on it. If nothing else, the payoff safes are really suspicious and suggest that a force outside the island and not present on it wants somebody who is on the island to do... well, something. It may not simply be enough to keep the family members from killing each other if somebody like Nanjo is being bribed/blackmailed for some unknown purpose.

I wonder if the bank account number from Episode 3 is actually a message to that outside force, rather than somebody who was on the island when it was written. There doesn't seem to be room for extra people on October 5th, but what about October 6th before the police arrive? If some large group did come onto the island that morning, it might explain why the corpses and bloody messes all disappeared, even though things like Mammon's stake and Maria's notebook survived.

Mammon's stake was buried in Kyrie's corpse and should have been covered in blood, so why didn't the police notice? Likewise, Maria's notebook was in her handbag next to her corpse (unless she left it in the guesthouse?), so anything natural that would destroy her corpse completely would probably also have destroyed that. It almost seems like those two things were deliberately left there to back up the witch story.

Hareoic · 2009-07-03, 18:04

Maybe the epitaph itself is a will, and somebody has to carry it out (and survive) to get the gold from an outside benefactor (possibly the person who handed out all the money to the surviving relatives).

And unless the Episode 3 hidden tea party was lying, Eva found real gold, and consequently devalued the precious metal after introducing so much into the market at once (If I recall correctly).

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-04, 09:07

I have a question about the final Human Tea Party. So... the final mystery is how Battler is killed by Beatrice when he is the final person alive on the island and no one outside can interfere? I assume it was intentional to cut the Tea Party at that point?

sento · 2009-07-04, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I have a question about the final Human Tea Party. So... the final mystery is how Battler is killed by Beatrice when he is the final person alive on the island and no one outside can interfere? I assume it was intentional to cut the Tea Party at that point?

Yeah, that and the "Who... aaam I...?".

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-04, 09:33

Umineko no Naku Koro Ni Completed.

I'm now obligated to think that the real villains of this game is not in fact Beatrice but Lambda and Bern.

I think I finally understand most of the totality of Beatrice's personality, and I think I may really know the real reason she engaged with Battler on this game. I'll post it later when I've organized it.

Nih · 2009-07-04, 09:46

What a wonderful checkmate.

blitz1/2 · 2009-07-04, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I have a question about the final Human Tea Party. So... the final mystery is how Battler is killed by Beatrice when he is the final person alive on the island and no one outside can interfere? I assume it was intentional to cut the Tea Party at that point?

Well...

Battler can simply die from shock/depression. (since it is not "suicide", since Battler did not intentionally want to end his life)

Battler can trip right off the cliff.

Beatrice just mindraped Battler so much that his brain shut down.

Many answers are possible.

Hareoic · 2009-07-04, 17:03

Or he died of alcohol poisoning.
(Wasn't he inside the main hallway when the clock struck midnight?)

Jan-Poo · 2009-07-04, 17:29

So Beatrice is a bottle of wine?

Kitsu · 2009-07-04, 17:31

More like four or so

Hareoic · 2009-07-04, 17:42

Wouldn't that mean Bernkastel killed him, then?

Jan-Poo · 2009-07-04, 17:51

Ah guys there's an interesting thing I've found, well actually partly it was already noticed, anyway this might be a clue or a joke or who knows what.

Practically it's about the sentence that is seen in Kumasawa's photo and her translation:

Quote:

この扉は千兆分の一の確率でしか開かない
あなたは千兆分の一の確率でしか祝福されない

This is supposedly a translation of an english sentence, so doing a reverse engineering is not easy, anyway the first part matches with what Battler read in Ep2 on the chapel.

Quote:

This door is opened only at a probability of a quadrillion to one
You will be blessed only at a probability of a quadrillion to one

So far nothing new.

Now, literally "千兆分の一" is "one quadrillionth", and the transliteration in katakana of "quadrillionth" is exactly as follow:

クワドリリアンス　= KUWADORIRIANSU

I actually asked chronotrig to confirm if this was correct XD
And he told me how funny it is that if you remove the six characters from kuwadorian you obtain RISU = Squirrell!

Certainly Squirrellord is hiding something, kana? Kana?

Marion · 2009-07-04, 19:04

Squirrellord-Beatrice has the gold. MYSTERY SOLVED. -shot-

But yeah, this just keeps pointing to the gold being in the Kuwadorian. I wonder if it's a red herring.

hodil · 2009-07-04, 19:25

What on earth does it have to do with the epitaph...

omg... that stupid poem was a fake!

Did Eva actually see this phrase ?

Marion · 2009-07-04, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodil

What on earth does it have to do with the epitaph...

omg... that stupid poem was a fake!

Did Eva actually see this phrase ?

That phrase was on a picture of the Kuwadorian that Kumasawa owned, before it was handed to one of her sons after her death. Ange is the one who saw the picture and the phrase, not Eva.

hodil · 2009-07-04, 19:38

Than in that case, Eva did not use this phrase to find the gold. The answer still lies within the epitaph?

Edit: what on earth did Ange see at the sailor's house =.=

Jan-Poo · 2009-07-04, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marion

That phrase was on a picture of the Kuwadorian that Kumasawa owned, before it was handed to one of her sons after her death. Ange is the one who saw the picture and the phrase, not Eva.

Uhm wait we are not sure that the picture shows the Kuwadorian. Ange only says she doesn't recognize that place. It is probable that Ange never saw the chapel as Battler himself says he's never been there (before this last family meeting).
Of course it's possible that it is the kuwadorian since according to kawabata Kumasawa knows that place.

Anyway while we are not sure if those two sentences are shown on the kuwadorian we are definitely sure they are shown on the chapel, and that's for granted.

Also Eva in ep3 after finding the key says: "the only place to stick that key in is that place, that is definitely what offers the sacrifices".

Since she's not supposed to know about the kuwadorian, then I think it's more probable she went to the chapel first, and from that place she was able to reach the kuwadorian following the 10 twilights.

2009-07-03, 07:38	Link #2282
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	This does in fact support some theory regarding people surviving and being revived in the Golden Land. It might even not be to take the term of dying and reviving into the Golden Land as a literal sense. In fact, as poems and epitaphs tend to be metaphoric as someone pointed out here.... We could surmise that the terms of "dying and reviving" might actually refer to the metaphoric "death of trust" and subsequent "revival of trust". When I think about it, solving the riddle started out as a group effort. Even when it was only Eva in the end who figured it out, it was because Rosa and Eva somewhat cooperated and trusted each other that they found the gold through the epitaph, and perhaps even Kuwadorian itself. When cracks formed in their relationship, all hell breaks loose again. Even if Eva didn't know the way to Kuwadorian at that time, it can be assumed that she would have found the way there eventually. Furthermore, if the people trusted each other and cooperated rather than fall into suspicion and paranioa, it would be realistically possible for Eva to lead them all to the Kuwadorian where they'd all be safe. Thus from a realist POV, Kuwadorian could be the metaphorical Golden Land because it is there that people will live through the disaster. If we were to strictly say that there really is a killer, then Kuwadorian serves as the place where the killer cannot get to them. As such it leads me to a single conclusion: That Kuwadorian could serve as the Golden Land because it is there that people will be saved from this natural or man-made disaster only through a revival of trust and cooperation, the biggest thing sorely lacking between the survivors. This is only possible by solving the riddle and trusting each other to get all of them there. In other words, the epitaph symbolically serves as a message of hope: that only by trusting your friends and family and unravelling the mystery as a unit can the riddle be deciphered, and the ultimate reward is survival. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-03, 18:04	Link #2285
Hareoic There will be burgers Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Omaha Age: 35	Maybe the epitaph itself is a will, and somebody has to carry it out (and survive) to get the gold from an outside benefactor (possibly the person who handed out all the money to the surviving relatives). And unless the Episode 3 hidden tea party was lying, Eva found real gold, and consequently devalued the precious metal after introducing so much into the market at once (If I recall correctly). __________________ The Meta World reminds you that the Delicious Companion Burger will never threaten to stab you, and, in fact, cannot speak. In the event that the Delicious Companion Burger does speak, The Meta World urges you to disregard it's advice.

2009-07-04, 09:07	Link #2286
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	I have a question about the final Human Tea Party. So... the final mystery is how Battler is killed by Beatrice when he is the final person alive on the island and no one outside can interfere? I assume it was intentional to cut the Tea Party at that point? __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-04, 09:33	Link #2288
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Umineko no Naku Koro Ni Completed. I'm now obligated to think that the real villains of this game is not in fact Beatrice but Lambda and Bern. I think I finally understand most of the totality of Beatrice's personality, and I think I may really know the real reason she engaged with Battler on this game. I'll post it later when I've organized it. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-04, 17:03	Link #2291
Hareoic There will be burgers Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Omaha Age: 35	Or he died of alcohol poisoning. (Wasn't he inside the main hallway when the clock struck midnight?) __________________ The Meta World reminds you that the Delicious Companion Burger will never threaten to stab you, and, in fact, cannot speak. In the event that the Delicious Companion Burger does speak, The Meta World urges you to disregard it's advice.

2009-07-03, 07:30	Link #2281
Nih Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Age: 39	Yes, I'd have to agree that the "unfortunate incident" is most likely natural. Of course there are as many truths as there are witch hunters. For example, in the third game there are two accounts of the events that transpired on Rokkenjima. I don't think whoever wrote those messages knew (or was smart enough to know) all the possible ways the witch hunters could interpret them later. However, in the spirit of keeping things uncertain, it may be possible that whoever read those acounts afterwards, realized just how many different interpretations could exist and decided to make a "joke" out of it. Of course humans have the tendency to assume the worst case scenarios, thus legends with witches are born

2009-07-03, 12:39	Link #2283
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	The one problem is, somebody outside the island is influencing the events that happen on it. If nothing else, the payoff safes are really suspicious and suggest that a force outside the island and not present on it wants somebody who is on the island to do... well, something. It may not simply be enough to keep the family members from killing each other if somebody like Nanjo is being bribed/blackmailed for some unknown purpose.

2009-07-04, 09:46	Link #2289
Nih Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Age: 39	What a wonderful checkmate.

2009-07-04, 17:29	Link #2292
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	So Beatrice is a bottle of wine? __________________

2009-07-04, 17:31	Link #2293
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	More like four or so __________________ Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara

2009-07-04, 17:42	Link #2294
Hareoic There will be burgers Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Omaha Age: 35	Wouldn't that mean Bernkastel killed him, then? __________________ The Meta World reminds you that the Delicious Companion Burger will never threaten to stab you, and, in fact, cannot speak. In the event that the Delicious Companion Burger does speak, The Meta World urges you to disregard it's advice.

2009-07-04, 19:04	Link #2296
Marion The Great Dine Join Date: Feb 2009	Squirrellord-Beatrice has the gold. MYSTERY SOLVED. -shot- But yeah, this just keeps pointing to the gold being in the Kuwadorian. I wonder if it's a red herring.

2009-07-04, 19:25	Link #2297
hodil Solve me... Join Date: Mar 2009	What on earth does it have to do with the epitaph... omg... that stupid poem was a fake! Did Eva actually see this phrase ? __________________ "._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._." The blog of truths.

2009-07-04, 19:38	Link #2299
hodil Solve me... Join Date: Mar 2009	Than in that case, Eva did not use this phrase to find the gold. The answer still lies within the epitaph? Edit: what on earth did Ange see at the sailor's house =.= __________________ "._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._." The blog of truths.