Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[HayashiTakara]

When someone is in love, they get jealous quite easily, and more times than not they misinterpret the actions of the person their in love with and those who interact with them, and may begin to feel threatened by it. Its a natural occurance of the human psyche

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Also do you know what romance is according to the Japanese? Because if you did....You would see...Orihime has NO chance.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Edit: ~uguu.. I do apologize that my mannerism of speech can be hard to understand sometimes, its the bane of being Multilingual... as a kid growing up, I would only speak japanese at home

On a momentary off-topic diversion.......that comment by a New yorker has got to be the funniest post in this thread so far, and there have been some doozies. Sorry, Od.

[Elegant Destruction]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

He's saying it'll be surprising, because Rukia has literally taken a major backseat for almost the entire second half of the series. Its almost like having a character disappear for 200 episodes then come back all of a sudden ripping away any development the Main character has had with the other point of interest. It just wouldn't make much sense. For it to work, you'll need to devote more time to show more development, as of right now theres been zero development.

What I don't really understand is, Ichigo had virtually zero contact with Rukia the entire SS arc, so I can't see how it constitutes as development. He saw her like what? twice? and both times are extremely short. With the HM arc, Orihime has more contact with Ichigo, and is there to witness major fights, not to mention giving him the drive through words and actions to win. I feel theres more development in character in the HM arc then in the SS arc.

Edit: ~uguu.. I do apologize that my mannerism of speech can be hard to understand sometimes, its the bane of being Multilingual... as a kid growing up, I would only speak japanese at home, as my mom was only able to speak "engrish" at best, if you know what i mean... So, sometimes when I don't stop to think for awhile, and speak on a whim, I can be hard to understand, give me a minute to formulate my thoughts.

join the club! us multilinguals must stick together ^_< Either way, next time i misunderstand you, just point me in the right direction ^_^

Actually, the thing with SS shows KT skills as an author. Yes they did only meet twice, but that connection between them grew. KT done it with them constantly thinking of about each, by letting other people talk for them *mostly noticeably through that healer.. - can't remember his name at this moment T_T- and renji*

He also did it by making them both grow through this process. They both experienced emotional testing times through this SS arch, and then had to learn to believe in each other. By the time they finally faced each other, they had 'growned' and was ready to move on together this time. Or at least that is what the audience 'felt'.

And i don't think orihime saw much of ichigo during that arch either, wasn't it only by the time the end came around *with byakuya* that she finally saw him fight?

there is a real connection between rukia and ichigo, unfortunately, i can't say the same for orihime, it is mostly just coming from her. To me it is a crush, just more serious for her as it is her first time experiencing such an emotion *and i said to me, i am not opening that debate up again as last time no one could agree, and certain people got upset when they couldn't convince me otherwise, even after trying to shove it down my throat. - headach - *

But that is not to mean to say that orihime is not important to ichigo, i just feel that rukia has more of his respect and certain significance that orihime lacks.

[HayashiTakara]

lol, how'd you know I grew up in New York?

[HaNa-san]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

-hana-san- I wasn't saying that Inoue was mistaken, of course Ichigo has feelings for Rukia, I was merly saying that she could easily have been blowing his feelings out of proportion and assuming things she has no right to assume. I understand the meaning of body language perfectly well but in case you havn't realised, body language can be read in more then one way and just because you interpret it one way doesn't mean my interpretation was wrong. Same goes for me. I agree that the upcoming chapters should give us more to discuss.

I'm glad that you see ichigo has some feeling toward rukia, when you ship ichiori..after all orihime's jealousy won't be out of nothing… she's the type who loves so deeply and spends her time thinking about her prince..it's not unusual for some girls..but to develop her character further and out of confusion box..she needs to face her feeling..she either needs to confess her feeling to ichigo or move on and find another significant goal to follow other than love.. and In my opinion, she needs to be rejected because it'll help her character to face the reality of the life and recognize that love is not everything in life..you can disagree though..

About body language..it can be read in more than way..but all of the readings lead you to one conclusion..ichiruki has many scenes that's defined by body language and actions…however, I don't recall that ichiori has some body language scenes ..at least not from orihime's side since her feeling is very obvious..

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by Elegant Destruction

join the club! us multilinguals must stick together ^_< Either way, next time i misunderstand you, just point me in the right direction ^_^

Count me in that club . Actually,majority of the forum members probably are bilingual at least.

Originally Posted by Elegant Destruction

And i don't think orihime saw much of ichigo during that arch either, wasn't it only by the time the end came around *with byakuya* that she finally saw him fight?

I think he means Orihime saw more of Ichigo in HM arc, than Rukia saw of him in SS arc. He specifically says "with the hm arc" when he refers to Orihime.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

lol, how'd you know I grew up in New York?

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Also do you know what romance is according to the Japanese? Because if you did....You would see...Orihime has NO chance.

I meant that OD is a New Yorker lecturing someone of Japanese ancestry that he doesn't understand how Japanese view romance. Hmm....so both of you are New Yorkers. That's probably why you get along so well then . I think I should try and stay on topic now.

Originally Posted by HaNa-san

In my opinion, she needs to be rejected because it'll help her character to face the reality of the life and recognize that love is not everything in life..you can disagree though..
.

She would take it better than many people expect. She's not a fundamentally selfish person.........she'd hold herself together out of respect for Rukia and desire to help her friends. She gets quite a bit of hate for being "obsessed" or stuff. But I have no doubt she'd put her friends and her duty above any personal feelings .

[HaNa-san]

Another funny argument XXD even though ichiruki didn't spend much time together in ss arc but their heart were connected through hanatarou, renji and byakuya..on the other hand, orihime has spent her time mostly with ichigo but nothing significant has happened between them that can add something new to their current relationship.. ss arc was more focused and emotional that’s why it's more successful and popular..

I think she would take it better than many people expect. She's not a fundamentally selfish person.........she'd hold herself together out of respect for Rukia and desire to help her friends. Well, maybe after some crying.

hopefully, I can trust kubo on that..he's planning something important for her personality.. I might also like her more in the future..who knows ^^

[HayashiTakara]

I felt that the whole time, Rukia was thinking more about everything she's done to deserve execution and her primary focus was her past with Kaein. I know some of you will disagree but thats what I observed. Ichigo is the same as always, he was focused on the rescue, but wasn't afraid to take a detour, even though time was of the essence.

And nothing significant occuring when Ichigo was with Orihime in HM? I think you should take a closer look, apparently others see otherwise.

[Kakashi]

Actually one of the reasons why I think IchiRuki won't work is because Bleach is a shounen. The body language between them is very subtle even if your looking for it, I went through the whole of the SS arc not paying any attention to Ichigo and Rukia's relationship devolping, thinking this being shounen nothing would happen. Inoue's confession made me think more seriously about the possibility of a couple at the end. My much younger brother who is 13 thinks and hopes for IchiHime in the end (although not very seriously, he's much too intrested in the action to pay much attention ).

I found it intresting because he made this decision subconsciously and I think that's because Inoue was the bringer of romance and love to Bleach, also after the confession feelings stronger then friendship came into play. Although it could be argued that there was love between Ichigo and Rukia in the SS arc, it was very uncertain and in a shounen, very unlikely. So this is why I think Orihime is the more likely to end up with Ichigo. She is certainly in love with him. Rukia has never shown much indication of loving Ichigo. Kubo could easily turn around and say 'hey it was always platonic' whereas he could never say that about Inoue. If this was a shoujo I would be more inclined to agree with IchiRuki but IchiRuki means emo Inoue , which is a bit much for shounen. Even for Kubo.

*Im not saying that Inoue is weak minded and would have a mental breakdown because she wouldn't but it would be strange if she got rejected. May I ask when is the last time shounen dealt with rejection of this calibur? And I don't mean Naruto-Sakura punch in the face rejection -_-

[HayashiTakara]

I'll have to comment, I never really thought about any romance prospect in Bleach until Orihime made herself more pronounce. She was the one that brought it to my attention that theres a possible romance in this series.

[HaNa-san]

That means you don't know anything about body language and action words..ichiruki has been shown numerous times that something is going on between them beyond friendship ..not only orihime noticed this..but his sister karin and his friends in school..

If kubo suddenly turned around ichiroi that means he's really a bad writer who will surprise his majority fans, anime team and bleach rock musical that have been going toward ichiruki direction..

I have heard it many times from ichiroi side,when it comes to ichiruki,,they say it's shounen..but when it comes to orihime they say we might have some hopes.. come on guys..if you believe it's a shounen manga, you have to consider that ichiruki might happen coz both of them are fighters and main characters who have more focused story through the manga (ch 1 to ch 248)

[HayashiTakara]

Outside of Tatsuki, Ichigo has never shown interaction with a female, so seeing him with Rukia just brought about a ton of misunderstanding, his family isn't good example to use.

I don't see any body language you're constantly bringing up, the big problem with the kind of "body language" that Kubo is using, is that its ambiguous. You can interpret it in anyway you want.

Rukia is canon fodder, I wouldn't call her a "fighter", lol, just kidding on her being weak XP.

And Rukia lost focus for quite a while now, her last big hurrah was her fight with the espada, in which had nothing to do with Ichigo and was all about her and Kaein. She lost focus when the HM arc started. Kubo even said that he was shifting attention to Orihime, and he has.

This is how I see it, Inoue was introduced as the school mate who has a crush on Ichigo, but later became comrade in arms and a friend, and the more time the spent together the more intense her feelings became. And eventually once that intensity reached its peak, Kubo graced us with the single most romantic scene in the whole series, featuring Inoue, not Rukia. Rukia to me felt more as a cathersis for Inoue. But, thats just my views.

[Kakashi]

How would it be suddenly? Ichigo's only spent the last story arc chasing after Orihime, then fighting Grimmjow with her (and Nel) as his cheerleaders, going to fight Ulq for her again, even though he probably knows it could mean death. It would only be natural for deeper feelings to develop. You can say that he did these things for Rukia in the SS arc, but what exactly resulted from them? Nothing. Body language galore but still nothing happened. You must be plain ignorant if you arn't at least frearfull of the probablility of IchiHime devoloping in the next few chapters.

Like Hayashi said 100 times fans don't influence him as much as you think, neither do rock musicals, he probably already knows how things are gonna go down it's just a matter of good timing and good storytelling for him now. How has the anime team been going in the IchiRuki direction, if you ask me the anime is highly IchiHime. The manga is your saving grace. It would be bad writing on Kubo's part if he were to be influenced by the fans. Its his story and he will tell it how he wants to (hopefully).

[Elegant Destruction]

Originally Posted by amirali1985

Count me in that club . Actually,majority of the forum members probably are bilingual at least.

Yay!! *waves flag* we are an international multicultural forum, slowly but surely taking over the bleach world! ^_< lol

I think he means Orihime saw more of Ichigo in HM arc, than Rukia saw of him in SS arc. He specifically says "with the hm arc" when he refers to Orihime.

opps my bad. I still can't help but feel a stronger connection that ichigo has with rukia that orihime though.

She would take it better than many people expect. She's not a fundamentally selfish person.........she'd hold herself together out of respect for Rukia and desire to help her friends. She gets quite a bit of hate for being "obsessed" or stuff. But I have no doubt she'd put her friends and her duty above any personal feelings .

agreed. The only problem with orihime character is perhaps her being displayed as somewhat 2-dimentional. Which isn't true it is just how she comes across. The audience has a firmer grip on who rukia is than we do on who orihime is.

Originally Posted by HaNa-san

Another funny argument XXD even though ichiruki didn't spend much time together in ss arc but their heart were connected through hanatarou, renji and byakuya..on the other hand, orihime has spent her time mostly with ichigo but nothing significant has happened between them that can add something new to their current relationship.. ss arc was more focused and emotional that’s why it's more successful and popular..

strangely enough i never thought of it that. I mean the last comment, how SS was more focused on the emotional and thus what attracted the audience. I think your right, the HM arch is just not attracting the same depth, and thus is lacking the impact. I am sure everyone remembers the ichigo/renji bit when they swore on their souls to save rukia. Very nicely done i thought.

hopefully, I can trust kubo on that..he's planning something important for her personality.. I might also like her more in the future..who knows ^^

One thing is i have given up somewhat in trying to predict what KT gets up to... he just likes to shock as one and throw us in the opposite direction. ^_< lol

Ok, a little more seriously, yes, i think KT has plans for orihime character, and i can see certain directions where this can lead to her, and the certain consequences, however knowing KT, he is probably going to lead us on a merry dance first. ^_^

However, it is clear that KT does want to develope Orihime's character, and that he isn't through with her yet, so i am half expecting her to grow and change during this arch, i am just not yet sure what that growth is going to lead to. ^_^;

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

Actually one of the reasons why I think IchiRuki won't work is because Bleach is a shounen. The body language between them is very subtle even if your looking for it, I went through the whole of the SS arc not paying any attention to Ichigo and Rukia's relationship devolping, thinking this being shounen nothing would happen. Inoue's confession made me think more seriously about the possibility of a couple at the end. My much younger brother who is 13 thinks and hopes for IchiHime in the end (although not very seriously, he's much too intrested in the action to pay much attention ).

I think what has to be understood and accepted, is that KT is redefining shounen. I mean no shounen ever before has ever appealed to such a wide-ranging audience, both girls and boys of all ages are not only loving this, but are becoming obessed with this. This shounen is anything but typical. We have some very strong female characters... actually there is already a whole thread/discussion on this *somewhere* in this forum so i shouldn't go into so much detail *otherwise i be treading on a few peoples toes* so to just dismiss the idea that there isn't going to be a romance due the genra this falls under is, I feel, a somewhat mistaken notion.

And while you didn't think of any couple at the end of that arch, this forum itself that many others thought otherwise. Many people were rooting for ichiruki by the end *fandom is very obessed at times ^_< * Seriously, was anyone besides me scared by the amount of fanart that came out after that arch?

And i think your little brother is adorable ^_< he reminds me of my one.

I found it intresting because he made this decision subconsciously and I think that's because Inoue was the bringer of romance and love to Bleach, also after the confession feelings stronger then friendship came into play. Although it could be argued that there was love between Ichigo and Rukia in the SS arc, it was very uncertain and in a shounen, very unlikely. So this is why I think Orihime is the more likely to end up with Ichigo. She is certainly in love with him. Rukia has never shown much indication of loving Ichigo. Kubo could easily turn around and say 'hey it was always platonic' whereas he could never say that about Inoue. If this was a shoujo I would be more inclined to agree with IchiRuki but IchiRuki means emo Inoue , which is a bit much for shounen. Even for Kubo.

One thing i got to say here is that i am going to go ahead and assume that you are somewhat in the west and not japanese based. The reason why i say this is because the japanese perspective is hughly different from the western one. Actually, how much anime have you watched? *please understand i am not trying to be offensive i am just curious*

Japanese culture and ideas are naturally reoccuring in all their works. *the sun and moon theory again, the constant theme of cherry blossoms that nearly appears in all anime* for japan, from looking at their forums at the time actually, they thought it was more natural for rukia to end up with ichigo. the western world seem to be leaning towards orihime however. *again that one is a generalisation, i know very well that there are many supporters of rukia in the west, and since the beginning of the HM arch, alot of japanese as swung for orihime, although not that many incomparison to rukia supporters.*

One other thing that seems to pop up, quite naturally for them, is the honour of having a one sided love. Does anyone remember that ballet/duck anime? the one where the duck falls in love with the prince, change into a girl, does some ballet dancing and then recieves nothing for it? and changes back into a duck? *ok, obviously not one of my favourite animes, after the first episode - and laughing- i stopped watching... it made me cringe* but anyway, the point is, i still remember going to a forum and finding that the mother, brough this anime for her daughter, and was appalled and offended by that ending. That this girl/duck suffered everything, was good, kind, and did everything for this boy, and she receives nothing for it. And i quote, "what sort of lesson is that to teach to a child?" But in japan, this is a natural idea. *hey, FF7 and tifa seems to keep popping up doesn't it?* Japan honours this idea and these feelings, while admitting that it isn't always enough to get the love you want.

dammit, i write too long postings >_< either way, i hope that makes things clearer.

[HayashiTakara]

Ok, I believe this has been touched upon before, but I'll go ahead and say it again since its been awhile since it was brought up.

There are two very common archetypes to portray love interest in animes/mangas.

Type A: Person A has shown very obvious signs of interest in Person B, but Person B is typically very hard headed, bossy, etc, and has yet to accept the fact that he/she is in fact interested in Person A, but shows consistent signs of jealousy whenever Person A interacts with the opposite sex ( i.e. Naru beating up Keitaro everytime a girl shows interest in him, even though she constantly denies having feelings for him )

Type B: Person A is in fact in love with Person B, theres no question about it, all the signs are there, constant contemplation, blushing, the whole 9 yards, but is insecure. Person B is completely oblivious to Person A's emotions throughout the entire series, until the climatic event where the feelings are made clear, then Person B miraculously realizes feelings for Person A.

As I see it, Rukia is none of these. If anything she fits more of the role of the "big sister" type who gives advice and cheers them up when they are down. She's done it with both Ichigo and Inoue.

Edit: Oh, yeah I'm first generation american, so my families household is still very traditional, and I use to spend summers at my grandparents house in Osaka till I was too old for my parents to be paying for it anymore, lol.

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by Elegant Destruction

I think what has to be understood and accepted, is that KT is redefining shounen. I mean no shounen ever before has ever appealed to such a wide-ranging audience, both girls and boys of all ages are not only loving this, but are becoming obessed with this. This shounen is anything but typical. We have some very strong female characters...

And i think your little brother is adorable ^_< he reminds me of my one.

lol yh I know I mean the female characters are actually tall in Bleach, Rukia being the exception, I think that's why I like it so much it seems more real and a bit more western. *Thanks he's very sweet but retarded

Originally Posted by Elegant Destruction

One thing i got to say here is that i am going to go ahead and assume that you are somewhat in the west and not japanese based. The reason why i say this is because the japanese perspective is hughly different from the western one. Actually, how much anime have you watched? *please understand i am trying to be offensive i am just curious*

I live in London, even though Im not English, I've lived here my whole life. I know about the difference in culture and I've watched enough anime to know about the whole one sided life =/= girl gets guy in the end. I may sound stupid but I just find it hard to express everything Im trying to say in one post ^^. And the whole 'one sided' love thing I find is common in Shoujo but not in Shounen, thats why I asked someone to give me an example of a shounen anime that would have a rejection of this scale in Bleach. Of course I agree with you that Kubo is re inventing shounen so anything can happen. That's why I would like to say it's very possible that it will end up being IchiRuki, Orihime had no chance, Rukia was always the one in his heart etc. BUT It could more easily be the other way round.

[Elegant Destruction]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Ok, I believe this has been touched upon before, but I'll go ahead and say it again since its been awhile since it was brought up.

There are two very common archetypes to portray love interest in animes/mangas.

Type A: Person A has shown very obvious signs of interest in Person B, but Person B is typically very hard headed, bossy, etc, and has yet to accept the fact that he/she is in fact interested in Person A, but shows consistent signs of jealousy whenever Person A interacts with the opposite sex ( i.e. Naru beating up Keitaro everytime a girl shows interest in him, even though she constantly denies having feelings for him )

Type B: Person A is in fact in love with Person B, theres no question about it, all the signs are there, constant contemplation, blushing, the whole 9 yards, but is insecure. Person B is completely oblivious to Person A's emotions throughout the entire series, until the climatic event where the feelings are made clear, then Person B miraculously realizes feelings for Person A.

As I see it, Rukia is none of these. If anything she fits more of the role of the "big sister" type who gives advice and cheers them up when they are down. She's done it with both Ichigo and Inoue.

Edit: Oh, yeah I'm first generation american, so my families household is still very traditional, and I use to spend summers at my grandparents house in Osaka till I was too old for my parents to be paying for it anymore, lol.

i'm sorry, but there way more types than that. give me a few minutes i am off to find that thread *even if it kills me now ^_< lol*

and even then, those two *the above* are mainly for shoujo *spell?* manga, as i stated before, KT has started something new.

[WONDERMIKE]

it's all about the way you interpret it..

for example, my (european) impression is leading me to questions like

- why should a breast-fanatic guy like Kubo let his beloved main character end up with a flat-chest like Rukia? I know, this point is smattering and sounds extremely stupid but face it, Kubo is dreaming of boobyland when his eyes are closed
- then the storyarcs.. the ss arc, the beginning, etc, everything was better than what followed after that(overall performance-wise), he could have made it perfect with a love confession, but no... it's like he dismissed his ichi-rukia-pairing-plans and shifted everything to Orihime, Rukia got her kaien/espada fight as a last honour and to please her friends and after that it's 99% about Orihime.. come on, why should he do that? And don't come with "oh the japanese like sad stories and Orihime will never achieve anything in the end", that's not likely due to Kubo's personality, he is in love with his characters(that's why nearly noone dies..) and doesn't like to make them suffer(k, renji doesn't count )

but even with all these thoughts in my head I wouldn't bet on the outcome, Rukia, Orihime, Tatsuki,.. everything is possible due to Kubo's shilly-shally-ness, and it would be hilarious if he remains a single till the end

[HayashiTakara]

The two types I mentioned are the two most common in Shounen not Shoujo, You'll be hard press to find other common types.

I could easily provide you with a massive list portraying these two types if you wish.

Edit: Oh I forgot to mention.. Orihime is only 5'3"... thats not tall at all. We asians have a different perception for tall and short. Ichigo is 5'8" roughly (same height as me) and thats considered above average for males. Rukia is 4'8" roughly. Just a useless fact but my older sister is 4'11" and my younger sister is 5'3"

[Elegant Destruction]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

lol yh I know I mean the female characters are actually tall in Bleach, Rukia being the exception, I think that's why I like it so much it seems more real and a bit more western. *Thanks he's very sweet but retarded

I live in London, even though Im not English, I've lived here my whole life. I know about the difference in culture and I've watched enough anime to know about the whole one sided life =/= girl gets guy in the end. I may sound stupid but I just find it hard to express everything Im trying to say in one post ^^. And the whole 'one sided' love thing I find is common in Shoujo but not in Shounen, thats why I asked someone to give me an example of a shounen anime that would have a rejection of this scale in Bleach. Of course I agree with you that Kubo is re inventing shounen so anything can happen. That's why I would like to say it's very possible that it will end up being IchiRuki, Orihime had no chance, Rukia was always the one in his heart etc. BUT It could more easily be the other way round.

wait, your a london gal? I'm a london gal! *celebrates* Are you in any anime groups? we should meet up!

and when it comes to the rejection.. ok this gets complicated. I half expect that orihime will confess to ichigo as she about to scarifice herself *or something* and then i would actually say that if she dies, its definetly ichigo/orihime. *i am sorry but ichigo is the type of character that CANNOT get over that. * and yes it makes me cringe to admit that, but there you go.

However, i am half betting that is not going to happen *because KT has real issues when comes to killing off main characters, obviously not a Harry potter fan ^_<* but orihime will see the deeper connection between ichigo and rukia, admit to it, and step back. *or confess everything to Tatsuki and cry it out*

I honestly admit i have given up on predicting KT... he just likes to leave us in suspense so he can be dramatic *stares at him * dammit, it is what i hate most about him. lol

edit: don't worry about expressing everything, i'm the onlyy idiot here who decides to turn posts into essays. ^_<