Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

It can be dispelled by Iris, but the only way to "break" the spell would be to either break the shield (nigh impossible), or somehow shift the mana within the battlefield into a different element so Iris can't use it.

Psycho: "And If I blew her up? Especially with a Fury?"
Franz: "Guinness are you trying to kill us all? A Fury?!"
Leena: "Nah, let's just my special attack~ Works really good on girls too~ And it's so much fun~"
Emili: "Glen save me." *hides behind Glen*
Naomi: "Mai, c'mere! We're hiding behind Uncle Avery and Chief!" *drags Mai behind Ivanovich & Chief
Chief: "..."
Franz & Glen: *facepalm*

It depends. Somewhere between 30 seconds and 1 minute from start to finish seems a reasonable enough minimum to allow the recycling process to take in a good amount of mana, but as I mentioned, the spell can be cut off and restarted at any time, like Archer does with UBW in the F/SN anime.

The time isn't too bad, but the cutting off and restarting? Sorry, it's not happening. Nowhere in Nanoverse do we see people casting partway, stopping, and then resuming casting. In the case of Nanoha getting her Linker Core grabbed by Shamal before firing Starlight Breaker Plus, recall that SB+ is a collection-type spell, and that Nanoha had finished collecting and all that was left was to fire.

Maybe.

Recall that Vita effortlessly created a barrier like this over most-if-not-all of Uminari City, and maintained it without effort right up until SB+ broke through it. Now take that same barrier and focus its' power to an area not even half the size of a football field. SB+ doesn't have a prayer.

Recall that at the time Vita was ranked AAA+, and Nanoha was ranked AAA. Now consider that at this time, Nanoha is ranked S+. And let's not forget that she managed to bust through the Book's barriers despite the Book being a fuckload more powerful that she was.

No, the enemy's own mana signature as well as interference from their barrier jackets would prevent something like that. Nifty idea, though.

Indeed it is, though it's also a rather haxxed idea. Still, since you've stated that can't happen, it's good for me.

See? You're getting the hang of de-haxxing.

@Thread: There's been a lot of shit going down in my life, so much so that it's managed to strip away most of my patience and good mood. Thus, while I'm still more or less nice, and won't be taking out my frustrations on the thread ala He-Who-Shall-Be-Called-The-Cow, a lot of my patience and niceness has been rubbed off. Essentially, I've become a milder variant of TK. 5" guns may not have as much firepower as 16" guns, but they hurt just as good.

EDIT: Page get claimed in the name of Emili-Naomi not related by blood yuricest rabu-rabu!

[Tormenk]

Well entities of the Wolkies level can be hardly considered illusions when they can dish out the hurt. And cast magic.

Which brings an addition into the earlier idea. Semi-sentient Wolkie-type entity tied into and commanded by a single consciousness doesn't sound too bad does it?

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

*pops in from backlog-breaking*

I do NOT want to hear cries of heretic from someone who's been genderbending the entire cast including several OC's!
ESPECIALLY TURNING THE ACES INTO SOME SORT OF ASIAN IDOL BOYBAND!



...

=3

......



*runs off*

GB is AU Khrack, but THIS AFFECTS CANON! THERE'S A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!! COME BACK HERE!!!!!!

[Tormenk]

Roar of the Kha(n) is mighty indeed...

[Kha]

Actually, that card was the reason I changed the spelling of my name.

[PhoenixG]

Originally Posted by Kha

GB is AU Khrack, but THIS AFFECTS CANON! THERE'S A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!! COME BACK HERE!!!!!!

No more crack for you....

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Well entities of the Wolkies level can be hardly considered illusions when they can dish out the hurt. And cast magic.

Which brings an addition into the earlier idea. Semi-sentient Wolkie-type entity tied into and commanded by a single consciousness doesn't sound too bad does it?

It's well-within the workable ideas. Xena has something similar if I remember correctly...
Still we need details about the summoner in person. =3

Originally Posted by Kha

GB is AU Khrack, but THIS AFFECTS CANON! THERE'S A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!! COME BACK HERE!!!!!!

:3
=3
>3
P3
@3
B3
::3
03
O3
X3

Anyway, I'm against the hermaphrodite idea too.
Though it is quite aw3some crack.

*runs*

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

:3
=3
>3
P3
@3
B3
::3
03
O3
X3

Anyway, I'm against the hermaphrodite idea too.
Though it is quite aw3some crack.

*runs*

FOR THE EMPRESS!!!

*chases Aaron, PF*

[PhoenixFlare]

*looks innocently at the commotion*

Something happened, everyone?

Originally Posted by Comartemis

It can be dispelled by Iris, but the only way to "break" the spell would be to either break the shield (nigh impossible), or somehow shift the mana within the battlefield into a different element so Iris can't use it.

Why is breaking the shield nigh impossible? It seems somehow that you're saying that the victim is trapped for good.

Shifting Mana to a different element is likely not going to have an effect on the shield (unless it's ice elemental as well), so why bother?

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Maybe.

Recall that Vita effortlessly created a barrier like this over most-if-not-all of Uminari City, and maintained it without effort right up until SB+ broke through it. Now take that same barrier and focus its' power to an area not even half the size of a football field. SB+ doesn't have a prayer.

I would suggest changing it from "Maybe" to a "Yes". Recall that the upper limit of HAXX in this universe is probably Reinforce Ein, and Magical Prison did collapse.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

No, the enemy's own mana signature as well as interference from their barrier jackets would prevent something like that. Nifty idea, though.

Good.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Despite that, her original, the last Saint King, was almost certainly female. Two reasons. First, Jail probably prefers a clone as close to the original as possible to minimize compatibility issues with the Cradle's authetication systems. A clone with the wrong gender goes against this. Second, the last Saint King was a historical figure. Surely the Chruch's records show whether the Saint King was a male or female. Then it'd be obvious whether the clone was of the correct gender.
Unless, the Saint King's gender was the Church's biggest secret!
.
.
.
.
.
.
Yeah, right...

I'm fine with Sankt Kaiser being either female or male.

Taking Vivio as a definite proof that Sankt Kaiser being a female is stretching it by very good measures, however. "Being as close to the original as possible" may simply entail nothing more than Jail using whatever genetic data that he could acquire to clone Vivio. After all, missing some pieces of vital genetic information (possibly one that caused Vivio's heterochromia) did not impact much on the identification.

On the level of Cradle identification, I've suggested that it involved nothing more than identifying "key" genes in Vivio for activation, and nothing about Vivio's DNA needed to be 100% identical. Whether it's XX or XY was probably irrelevant, since the "key" genes may be more autosomal than sexually-linked. I don't doubt that the converse may also be true, but canon doesn't seem to be placing much importance on this, so ...

As for "historical" figure, the Church has yet to deign it important to reveal the Kaiser's gender, so we do what we can for now.

... it may also be the Church's greatest secret.

*watches Kha jumping at this opportunity to make the greatest pronouncement the Churchdom has ever made*

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Placing a time constraint on it serves as a nerf of sorts when the process can be done on a combat basis. Not to mention the being a 'exact copy of a person' part reeks of Naruto.

Perhaps you would prefer to label them as "summons" more than "mages"? Since summons basically drain the summoner, it computes to have a time-limit for their existence.

Unless you have plans to make them ... permanent?

[Ottocycle]

Empress? And anyway, I support PF's proposition with regards to the Sanckt Kaiser issue.

Anyway, anyone else saw Meophist lurking around just now?

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

The time isn't too bad, but the cutting off and restarting? Sorry, it's not happening. Nowhere in Nanoverse do we see people casting partway, stopping, and then resuming casting. In the case of Nanoha getting her Linker Core grabbed by Shamal before firing Starlight Breaker Plus, recall that SB+ is a collection-type spell, and that Nanoha had finished collecting and all that was left was to fire.

Yes and no, while stopping mid cast then picking up later isn't possible from what we see casting something and then setting it on a delayed activation trigger or storing it in some item where it can be activated very quickly later IS and the differences if done right could be minor. That said for a spell of this magnitude storing it intact and ready to go would be a challenge IMO and likely require something on the order of a device solely for that purpose.

Recall that at the time Vita was ranked AAA+, and Nanoha was ranked AAA. Now consider that at this time, Nanoha is ranked S+. And let's not forget that she managed to bust through the Book's barriers despite the Book being a fuckload more powerful that she was.

And acutally given that we know that the difference between AAA+ and AAA is significant (as seen when Chrono fights Fate in the Manga) and yet Vita failed to defeat Nanoha that quickly (indeed she needed to use a bunch of cartridges to do it.) I’d acutally argue maintaining the barrier WAS weakening her.

It also assumes Nanoha WANTED to break the barrier at first this is unlikely IMO not only because she wouldn’t want to be seen but because of worrying about people getting caught in the crossfire as well. Notice she never tries to flee during the initial contact and instead seeks battle which as I noted means the Barrier isn’t doing anything. It’s only later when it becomes clear they’re overmatched that they decided to nuke the barrier and flee which they do in like 2 minutes once they make that call with a single spell from a mage that’s already been significantly weakened.
This isn’t even really open for debate IMO it’s rather simple X amount of energy spread over Y area determines the strength of a shield. When Y is a say a circle with a 1 meter radius it’s going to be VASTLY tougher then when Y is a dome with a surface area measured in square miles assuming even vaguely comparable inputs. Just like if you took all the layers out of a bullet proof vest spread them out then sowed them into a sheet the sheet would have the same amount of Kevlar in it, but only a small fraction of the original vests stopping power.

As I said IMO barriers main use is keeping people from seeing magic battles when the mages don’t want them too, but even that depends on both parties thinking that way and if one guy decides not to play along he can bust it down pretty easily. This is why no one bothers with them on Mid and other administered worlds they have no real reason to hide and the barriers are to easy to break through. That's why I've never really consider barriers to be viable as single combat spells or to trap someone of comparable power to yourself as IMO if you have the power to put the barrier up he has the power to tear it down, or at least tear through a section of it rather easily.

Indeed it is, though it's also a rather haxxed idea. Still, since you've stated that can't happen, it's good for me.

See? You're getting the hang of de-haxxing.

Yeah attacks that bypass ANY defense to strike right at "hit points" tend to be VERY hard to balance without building the entire combat system around the idea.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by PhoenixG

No more crack for you....

Kha is able to naturally produce crack all on his own.

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

It's well-within the workable ideas. Xena has something similar if I remember correctly...
Still we need details about the summoner in person. =3

I would refer to his index post but the main index post hasn't been updated in ages with Erio mostly MIA.

Well the idea is somewhat feasible but it's a shame I can only think of it as a combat spell application-wise. Not entirely sure I'll even use it in the future, just thought it was a unexplored area to bring up.

As for the mage, well Katrina's my only summoner so it'll probably go to her when I decide to use it. Though the level and complexity of such is still beyond even someone like her at this point. Besides, technology associated with the Tome of the Night Sky isn't something to throw around lightly. >.>

:3
=3
>3
P3
@3
B3
::3
03
O3
X3

Anyway, I'm against the hermaphrodite idea too.
Though it is quite aw3some crack.

*runs*

You forgot this: 83

Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare

Why is breaking the shield nigh impossible? It seems somehow that you're saying that the victim is trapped for good.

He did say the barrier was immune to pretty much anything besides a shot from an Arc cannon. *shrugs*

I'm fine with Sankt Kaiser being either female or male.

Taking Vivio as a definite proof that Sankt Kaiser being a female is stretching it by very good measures, however. "Being as close to the original as possible" may simply entail nothing more than Jail using whatever genetic data that he could acquire to clone Vivio. After all, missing some pieces of vital genetic information (possibly one that caused Vivio's heterochromia) did not impact much on the identification.

On the level of Cradle identification, I've suggested that it involved nothing more than identifying "key" genes in Vivio for activation, and nothing about Vivio's DNA needed to be 100% identical. Whether it's XX or XY was probably irrelevant, since the "key" genes may be more autosomal than sexually-linked. I don't doubt that the converse may also be true, but canon doesn't seem to be placing much importance on this, so ...

As for "historical" figure, the Church has yet to deign it important to reveal the Kaiser's gender, so we do what we can for now.

... it may also be the Church's greatest secret.

Sounds Dan Brown-ish coming from you.

Perhaps you would prefer to label them as "summons" more than "mages"? Since summons basically drain the summoner, it computes to have a time-limit for their existence.

Unless you have plans to make them ... permanent?

No. Too much trouble to manage him/her.

Summoning magic is an icky area to step into. Going along those lines, 'summons' like the Wolkies are probably the summit of what a summoner can do.

Originally Posted by humbug23

Empress? And anyway, I support PF's proposition with regards to the Sanckt Kaiser issue.

Anyway, anyone else saw Meophist lurking around just now?

My interests aren't too affected by the SK issue but I concur.

Meophist has been back here for quite some time..busting backlog perhaps?

[PhoenixFlare]

Originally Posted by humbug23

Empress? And anyway, I support PF's proposition with regards to the Sanckt Kaiser issue.

Anyway, anyone else saw Meophist lurking around just now?

Methinks he's around just now. Don't know where he goes to, though.

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Kha is able to naturally produce crack all on his own.

That, he does. He's the Father of Khrack, no?

Originally Posted by Tormenk

He did say the barrier was immune to pretty much anything besides a shot from an Arc cannon. *shrugs*

Keeping that line would most likely mean a lot of frowns and a lot more growls.

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Sounds Dan Brown-ish coming from you.

It does?

Originally Posted by Tormenk

No. Too much trouble to manage him/her.

Summoning magic is an icky area to step into. Going along those lines, 'summons' like the Wolkies are probably the summit of what a summoner can do.

Shouldn't be, the Wolkenritter are pre-programmed, after all. If your summons are not as advanced and you're also not planning corporeal bodies for them, there probably would be room for such thing. Something along the line of Garyuu is still permissible (I think). Epic summons should be like Voltaire or something.

[Kha]

I'm taking the stand of the Church against you Knight Templars! DIE HEATHENS!!!

RPing once in a while is really fun. ^^

[Tempy]

You want heretical material?

I got heretical material for you.

Spoiler for Manly Vivio:

Just kidding.

Whether or not the Saint King is male or female is up to continued speculation. You could even blame Jail Scaglietti for making Vivio the way she is through the wonderful magic of gene manipulation. Perhaps a loli was preferred over a shota.

[Jimmy C]

I prefer to keep it simple. What we got was what we saw. There's no reason Jail wouldn't know the Saint's gender. He knows Vivio is the best Saint King clone out there he can get.
Jail didn't make her, remember?

[PhoenixG]

I'm more inclined that there are more than one Sankt Kaiser ( different generation ). and each time it has a different gender....

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Kha is able to naturally produce crack all on his own.

Maybe Anita needs to Bishbish more harder.... XD

runs.

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare

Ah, humbug-kun, thanks a lot. Been looking for you to help.

Does it sound better? =3

Anyway, to solve this problem, we'll establish Sankt Kaiser as a [CRACK]hermaphrodite[/CRACK].

*runs from Keroko and Kha*

Well now isn't that an interesting concept...

Originally Posted by humbug23

Ahhh. The homely smell of cra-

*Exploding shell takes the place where humbug once stood*

*peers into crater*

Hmm...not as bad as I thought it was going to be

Originally Posted by Kha

HERETICS!

HEATHENS!


Sophia: YOU MUST BE PURGED!!!

So much pruging

*hides the IXA Knuckle from Kha*

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

*pops in from backlog-breaking*

I do NOT want to hear cries of heretic from someone who's been genderbending the entire cast including several OC's!
ESPECIALLY TURNING THE ACES INTO SOME SORT OF ASIAN IDOL BOYBAND!



...

=3

......



*runs off*

Ah, yes. There was that, huh? And like a decent amount of popular boy bands comes the fanart and...yaoi

*RUNS*

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

@Thread: There's been a lot of shit going down in my life, so much so that it's managed to strip away most of my patience and good mood. Thus, while I'm still more or less nice, and won't be taking out my frustrations on the thread ala He-Who-Shall-Be-Called-The-Cow, a lot of my patience and niceness has been rubbed off. Essentially, I've become a milder variant of TK. 5" guns may not have as much firepower as 16" guns, but they hurt just as good.

>_>

<_<

There is no cow level.

*RUNS*

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

EDIT: Page get claimed in the name of Emili-Naomi not related by blood yuricest rabu-rabu!

Woohoo!

Originally Posted by Kha

GB is AU Khrack, but THIS AFFECTS CANON! THERE'S A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!! COME BACK HERE!!!!!!

Looks like Kha's on a rampage

[Comartemis]

And acutally given that we know that the difference between AAA+ and AAA is significant (as seen when Chrono fights Fate in the Manga) and yet Vita failed to defeat Nanoha that quickly (indeed she needed to use a bunch of cartridges to do it.) I’d acutally argue maintaining the barrier WAS weakening her.

Vita only needed one cartridge to put Nanoha down for the count, ignoring for the moment the fact that she attacked Nanoha in melee, Nanoha's weakest area. That battle was won by tactics, not by power; Vita got her ass kicked while she was using her Swallow Fliers and during her first few attempts at hitting Nanoha in melee, but once Nanoha screwed up and tried to block Graf Eisen, she got her ass handed to her with one hit, and two were sufficient to hand Vita the KO.

It’s only later when it becomes clear they’re overmatched that they decided to nuke the barrier and flee which they do in like 2 minutes once they make that call with a single spell from a mage that’s already been significantly weakened.

Sure, after Yuuno and Arf--two supposedly AAA-rank mages--were already giving their best shot at transporting everyone outside the barrier, implying that between them, Fate, and an injured Nanoha they didn't have the power to "simply" break the shield at all; otherwise, they'd have just blasted their way out, rather than trying to create a lengthy and complex teleportation spell. The only reason they got out of that mess was the Total Seal Break ability attached to SB+

Now I'm willing to give SB+ the benefit of the doubt and say it can break any barrier regardless of strength, but anything without the Total Seal Break ability is going to be completely useless for breaking this barrier on account of its' high concentration and power focused to an extremely small area; it's Magical Prison with extremely reduced coverage area and extremely increased power, meaning that nothing less than SS-rank magic is going to be of any use against it.

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare

That, he does. He's the Father of Khrack, no?

Undisputed heavy-weight champion.

Though Lowe brought the term in here iirc.

It does?

I'm getting the Da Vincci Code vibes all over from that, if you must know. What with true identities and a Church mixed up in this..

Shouldn't be, the Wolkenritter are pre-programmed, after all. If your summons are not as advanced and you're also not planning corporeal bodies for them, there probably would be room for such thing. Something along the line of Garyuu is still permissible (I think). Epic summons should be like Voltaire or something.

Giant..mage summon?

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Vita only needed one cartridge to put Nanoha down for the count, ignoring for the moment the fact that she attacked Nanoha in melee, Nanoha's weakest area. That battle was won by tactics, not by power; Vita got her ass kicked while she was using her Swallow Fliers and during her first few attempts at hitting Nanoha in melee, but once Nanoha screwed up and tried to block Graf Eisen, she got her ass handed to her with one hit, and two were sufficient to hand Vita the KO.

Wrong. Nanoha had no knowledge of the cartridge system, and was subsequently overpowered by Vita after she went berserk.

I'm not sure about their actual mage rankings but I placed both Vita and Nanoha at AAA level back then. You'll notice that the two were rather evenly matched later on in their battles.

Sure, after Yuuno and Arf--two supposedly AAA-rank mages--were already giving their best shot at transporting everyone outside the barrier, implying that between them, Fate, and an injured Nanoha they didn't have the power to "simply" break the shield at all; otherwise, they'd have just blasted their way out, rather than trying to create a lengthy and complex teleportation spell. The only reason they got out of that mess was the Total Seal Break ability attached to SB+

Yuuno was an synthetic A and Arf was no higher than AA+ at that time. And given that even the Asura crew had trouble in even identifying the Velka-type barrier, it's safe to say it's harder for them to break out of an barrier which they had little knowledge of.

Now I'm willing to give SB+ the benefit of the doubt and say it can break any barrier regardless of strength, but anything without the Total Seal Break ability is going to be completely useless for breaking this barrier on account of its' high concentration and power focused to an extremely small area; it's Magical Prison with extremely reduced coverage area and extremely increased power, meaning that nothing less than SS-rank magic is going to be of any use against it.

So that would bring up the question of what kind of mage would be able to put up a barrier of such strength that could tank an Arc shot, since you're still sticking to your points? Not to mention putting something of the Arc's power at a mere SS standard.