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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 14 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 27 | 19.15% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 26 | 18.44% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 29 | 20.57% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 30 | 21.28% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 14 | 9.93% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 9 | 6.38% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.71% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 5 | 3.55% | |
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-10-04, 00:40 | Link #221 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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anyway the last part is probably the mos cryptic part of the riddle, because it doesn't look like a riddle at all. Anyway probably "to put the witch to sleep" is the real ending of the ceremony. In fact the epitaph ends by wishing Beatrice a good eternal sleep. So what's this idea of the epitaph having as a purpose the revival of the witch? Isn't it the total opposite in the end? I guess we have been all tricked by Maria's wrong interpretation!
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2009-10-04, 01:04 | Link #222 | |
Did nothing wrong
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2009-10-04, 01:34 | Link #224 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yeah... in theory, I don't know. Anyway it's not like the epitaph contradicts itself. The epitaph says that the witch will be revived and then put to sleep. The revival part isn't wrong, what is wrong is to think that's the end. This is the witch's "epitaph", the end of the riddle is to put the witch to sleep.
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2009-10-04, 02:14 | Link #226 | |
[E]
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I liked it a lot, like I have liked this whole arc, the problem with taking one minute off the meta world battle, so they could add th adult's talking aobut the epitaph is that it would screw up the glass shatter transition for ads. Spoiler for missing stuff form the adult discussion:
I would give this Episode a 10 but the lack of sucker merry barrels makes me drop 8 points from it. |
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2009-10-04, 03:57 | Link #228 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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But Kyrie's insight is missed, because even some of the adults acknowledged her as being pretty clever and what not during that time and even Young Eva was mocking Eva about not finding the answer, saying that she should just like Kyrie take the head position and die. It's really a shame. Still they should give some sort of flashback if only because of what is going to happen... |
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2009-10-04, 05:51 | Link #231 | |
Who... am I?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zaragoza, Spain
Age: 32
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-Ressurection of all souls: recover them all -Ressurrection of lost love: recover the unity of the split one in the 2nd twilight Abot the other two, could be...., literal? |
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2009-10-04, 07:51 | Link #233 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Spoiler for remind me, VN players:
Being able to suspend making comparisons in my mind (or just temporary forget that I have read the VN), I thought the episode was decent. Anime-only watchers may not know what they are missing, all the better for them. As a standalone anime episode, it had fluid animation for the most part (wouldn't have noticed the errors if they weren't pointed out), passable music (most likely because I forgot which tracks were supposed to be played), and a steady pace. I'm not for energetic music (like Dread of the Grave) during meta-battles in the anime. They work well in the VN because the arguments and the explanation drag on so there's time for those tracks to build up that mood, but if they are played in the anime, I think it would be out of place without all the buildup we have in the VN (and we're not getting those in the anime for obvious reasons.) Epic music does not go well with, "whoop de doo, so the killer actually died in an accident, anyone could have thought that logically". The epitaph discussion and a lot of hints were cut short. That's not a problem with me since the epitaph was not meant to the solved - it was meant to be revealed sometime later on. Of course we can all debate about where the gold is stashed for fun, though, but it's not as important as we all make it out to be. |
2009-10-04, 07:58 | Link #234 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yeah it was Rudolf. Kinda like in ep1 when George notices the lack of seagulls instead of Battler. You can only guess it isn't very relevant who does what in these cases, still you would also wonder: why the change? Si DEEN trying to be creative?
Ah this remind me the discussions about the LOTR movies, you can find similar character switches there as well.
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2009-10-04, 08:48 | Link #235 |
Witch's Golden Breaker
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Isn't DEEN already doing that? *drum roll, cymbal clash*
No, but in all seriousness regarding the whole 'all VN players will hate the Anime no matter what' issue. If I hadn't read the VN or known anything about it, I imagine I'd still be enjoying the Anime the same way I did for Higurashi. From what I've heard of Higurashi VN players, that was handled much worse (especially since 6 answer arcs were crammed into 26 episodes; at least in Umineko it's only 4). But fans who'd never heard of the series before the Anime really enjoyed it, so DEEN must have done something right. I think the same thing can be said for Umineko here - most Anime-only fans are still loving it, though sometimes confused by certain not-very-well-explained issues. However as I said in a previous post even if I hadn't read the VN, and even if I still kept up with Umineko because I enjoyed the story, I'd feel something different than Higurashi and that's the lack of emotion and character development. It all feels extremely scripted except for possibly the recent performance of Battler, and Beatrice and Kanon across the board. No one else seems to react in a realistic way, or be involved enough in the story to make me care about them. If I didn't know anything about the VN - even having threads where VN players complain about this stuff to have in mind - I'm sure I'd notice this on my own. Higurashi's charm was its characters, so even if it was a shitty adaptation I think that's the reason it succeeded as a standalone Anime. Umineko lacks that, and THAT is the reason I'm usually disappointed by it, much more than 'oh they cut this' or 'they changed that scene!!'. Do the cuts and edits hurt the series? Of course, as an adaptation. But the only thing that I feel hurts it as a standalone on par with Higurashi is the characterization. The first arc especially. I know that the most important part of EP1 is to get you into the series, but...well, it's meant to get you into the series. If it were me as an Anime-only viewer who had just sat through the first five episodes of a series I expected to be as compelling as Higurashi then I would have dropped it in disappointment for not being remotely as good. I admit DEEN has still been making some glaring and often stupid mistakes, but compared to the first 5 episodes, they've improved greatly. Only episode 11 I think was as disappointing as those first episodes, and as a standalone I admit I've enjoyed seeing some of my favorite scenes animated and acted out by such talented voice actors. As a VN reader obviously seeing some of the more awesome scenes play out in a much more visual way is a treat (though I'd still nitpick about the music, it's still nitpicking, and people can always make YouTube videos of said scenes with the proper music to satisfy the angry fanboy in me). EP1, however, did not make me feel that way. It was completely and utterly shameful and it's not exactly good to pull an audience in with a shitty first arc and then say 'oh but it's okay, it gets better after this'. Statistics say that no how good a 2-hour movie might be, if you don't hook the audience in the first...what is it, 15 seconds (that seems way too low but I swear that's what I've heard...)? That it's worthless. The beginning absolutely has to work, or the rest falls apart. Some of you Anime-only people might argue with me and say 'well I'm still watching it and loving it, the first arc didn't deter me!!', but we can't confirm how many people did feel that way and drop the series in the first arc because, obviously, they're not here to bother lurking Umineko threads. My guess is a lot of people who check out the new summer Anime scene checked it out but just weren't as into it as some of the other new titles. Honestly, I think that's because EP1 was absolutely abhorrent, not even as an adaptation, but as a standalone series. The characters did not emote properly, everything felt scripted, they skipped too much information and what was included was paced horrifically. Okay, so DEEN got better with EP2. Despite its flaws, I enjoyed EP2 a lot (except episode 11...). I'm definitely enjoying EP3 so far though I'm worrying how they're going to fit everything else in and make EP3 as awesome as it needs to be and not ruin EP4, which is at least twice as long as the other EPs. Still I'm enjoying the ride. I did not enjoy EP1. I think a lot of VN players feel the same way, and probably had their expectations lowered so much by those first 5 episodes that they kinda can't help but unconsciously find fault with everything since, despite it being much much better. So I guess the point of this rambling is Anime fans, don't judge all VN players as nitpicky otaku with unrealistic expectations just because the Anime isn't as perfect as our beloved VN. I don't think it's as easily summed up as that for at least half of us. Just like the VN players shouldn't always feel 'oh poor Anime-only viewers, they're getting such a crappy show, we should pity them' like we're gods looking down on mere mortals. If we can all understand where the other side is coming from, these arguments might become few and far between. Will VN players stop complaining or will Anime viewers stop praising? Hell no. But I think it'll clear some of the animosity between the two groups at least, so it's worth striving for. [/walloftext]
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2009-10-04, 08:52 | Link #236 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 39
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As an adaption, I'd give the anime a C+ or 7.5 so far.
It could be a lot worse. Quote:
Text size Legend of the golden witch = 671KB Turn of the golden witch = 640KB Banquet of the golden witch = 714KB Alliance of the golden witch = 874KB |
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2009-10-04, 09:43 | Link #237 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Ironically, the very reason that the anime suffers from "lack of emotion and character development" is due to DEEN's futile effort to stay as faithful as possible to the source material (and it is an unusually faithful adaption coming from them) with the time constraints they have. It's mission impossible, frankly.
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2009-10-04, 09:51 | Link #238 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 39
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The character development issue is because Umineko's cast is several times larger than Higurashi's. With Higurashi, they just focused on a couple of characters per arc. Umineko spreads it out a lot more. With a larger cast, it takes longer to develop the characters. This doesn't apply to just Umineko, but to any series in general.
Let's not treat the VN as flawless either. Even in the VN, there are several characters with little to no development. Gohda, Kumasawa, Genji, Hideyoshi, Krauss, Kyrie, Rudolf and Nanjo. Even VN players know very little about them. I think the only time lack of emotion has been a problem was during Legend. It's been pretty good since then. I don't really have a problem with the emotion level. |
2009-10-04, 11:41 | Link #240 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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