[Manga] Chapter 373 Discussion

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

He didn't say any of that, he put some background on the doujutsu and said he completely disregarded the rinnegan and the founder-dude as myth, nothing about it being rare or even legendary (just that it was an old myth). He didn't even suggest that the rinnegan was a bloodline limit, just that it was the doujutsu of the hermit of 6 paths. Which makes you wonder how the hell Jiraiyi would know how the Rinnegan looked like in the first place. Still, it's quite obvious what the stories meant when it said the rinnegan would save or destroy the world.

Personally based on what he's said about the Rinnegan it appears fairly legendary to me. I also think it's kind of obvious that it's a BL. I mean really I doubt they were doing experiments on themselves when they were kids. He didn't say it was a myth. The wording is "I always discounted them as being a myth or folk-tale" after he mentioned that Rinnegan was said to have come from heaven it-self as well as being called the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques. All of which hints that the Rinnegan was quite legenday (atleast to other people) , but Jiraiya thought the stories were far fetched and untrue and therefore discounted them.

I think the overall content pretty much should tell a person it's a BL, first they were children who it appears to have had no or very little ninja training so I doubt that it was from extensive clan training or experiments when the Rinnegan appeared. Since it says it's the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques and we've only seen 2 other eye techniques in Sharingan and Byakugan; both of which are BL's I think it's safe to assume that Rinnegan is a BL and with the fact that it a trait that appeared in one of the children with no ninja training, until Jiraiya came along. Jiraiya appears to know what the Rinnegan looks like from the legends he heard about it as he first mentions the ripples in the eyes...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Personally based on what he's said about the Rinnegan it appears fairly legendary to me. I also think it's kind of obvious that it's a BL. I mean really I doubt they were doing experiments on themselves when they were kids. He didn't say it was a myth. The wording is "I always discounted them as being a myth or folk-tale" after he mentioned that Rinnegan was said to have come from heaven it-self as well as being called the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques. All of which hints that the Rinnegan was quite legenday (atleast to other people) , but Jiraiya thought the stories were far fetched and untrue and therefore discounted them.

I think the overall content pretty much should tell a person it's a BL, first they were children who it appears to have had no or very little ninja training so I doubt that it was from extensive clan training or experiments when the Rinnegan appeared. Since it says it's the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques and we've only seen 2 other eye techniques in Sharingan and Byakugan; both of which are BL's I think it's safe to assume that Rinnegan is a BL and with the fact that it a trait that appeared in one of the children with no ninja training, until Jiraiya came along. Jiraiya appears to know what the Rinnegan looks like from the legends he heard about it as he first mentions the ripples in the eyes...

If it's the strongest then i wonder what it's power will be. Perhaps that explains why Jiraiya was looking into Itachi's eyes without any worries for the MS.

Byakugan = absolute vision, 360 degree, absolute chakra control, mostly taijutsu types
Sharingan = copy, predicting, all round types
Mangekyou Sharingan = Time/Space control in 1 certain dimension

My guess about Rinnegan:
Rinnegan = free control of the soul (jumping into other bodies), environment control, free use of considred Kinjutsu's!?

[Suna no tate]

I think Pain wants naruto's body. After all, why would he want to be the one who captures the 9 tails so bad?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

environment control

It may be that he uses all the powers of the current body/soul that he posesses. And that body was most likely Yahiko's. We saw in Jiraiya's flashback that Yahiko could control water, while Nagato wind. So if Pein is in Yahiko's body he could have reached a level where he can control even raining. It may be that Yahiko reached that level of water control while he was still alive. Just look at Konan, she could make paper shurikens in the flashback, but now she can do awesome things with paper, i think much more than we can see now (maybe in the next chapter she frees herself with using paper blades that come from her body to cut Jiraiya's hair). So it is very well possible that Yahiko reached that level of water control because he seemed the most talented from the 3 and also he came from the rain village.

[tatami]

why does everybody thinks rinnegan is about using other bodies or soul transfer?

just because pein got an ability like that?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by tatami

why does everybody thinks rinnegan is about using other bodies or soul transfer?

just because pein got an ability like that?

I think it's more interesting that he can actually use that eye in his new body. Kakashi got it by transplantation, Orochimaru could get sharingan only by posessing the body. But that rinnegan is more than an object that is part of a body, it seems to be part of the soul. What i want to say is that the eye is not some body-part any more and in the future it may be that by learning such jutsu even Naruto could have a similar eye somehow.

Another interesting jutsu was when Pein used Yuura's body to transfer Itachi there and Itachi states the body is a perfect copy so he can use sharingan in it even if the body itself has no sharingan eye. Well this jutsu has not known connection to rinnegan so it may be that Pein's body switching jutsu has not connection with his eye too, but it's more probable that the eye grants him that power. Otherwise every very-high level ninja could do it. The other possibility is that he learned body switching from Madara, but in that case he would be too overpowered, i mean if he can body switch so easily but Orochimaru couldn't do that and he even has the rinnegan that has even more unknown powers than Orochimaru was a completely weak and not talented ninja compared to Pein. I cannot accept that, it's much more logical that he is better with body switching because of his eye and not being so much more smarter than Orochimaru.
Or that Pein is the reincarnation of the "sage of six paths", but i rule out that possibility because than he should not take orders from Madara.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I think it's more interesting that he can actually use that eye in his new body. Kakashi got it by transplantation, Orochimaru could get sharingan only by posessing the body. But that rinnegan is more than an object that is part of a body, it seems to be part of the soul. What i want to say is that the eye is not some body-part any more and in the future it may be that by learning such jutsu even Naruto could have a similar eye somehow.

Another interesting jutsu was when Pein used Yuura's body to transfer Itachi there and Itachi states the body is a perfect copy so he can use sharingan in it even if the body itself has no sharingan eye. Well this jutsu has not known connection to rinnegan so it may be that Pein's body switching jutsu has not connection with his eye too, but it's more probable that the eye grants him that power. Otherwise every very-high level ninja could do it. The other possibility is that he learned body switching from Madara, but in that case he would be too overpowered, i mean if he can body switch so easily but Orochimaru couldn't do that and he even has the rinnegan that has even more unknown powers than Orochimaru was a completely weak and not talented ninja compared to Pein. I cannot accept that, it's much more logical that he is better with body switching because of his eye and not being so much more smarter than Orochimaru.
Or that Pein is the reincarnation of the "sage of six paths", but i rule out that possibility because than he should not take orders from Madara.

There is a lot of talk about soul transfer and stuff and it may be accurate, but with Pein's eyes, the shapes and whirls and all, the idea of hypnotism just occurred to me. What if this technique just happens to be a form of hypnotism where he has the ability to control people and nothing more. Remember the Sand ninja guy that was Itachi but when he died, he wasn't? What if this is an extension of that technique? To be able to control bodies to do your bidding and the possibility of all of them being awake sounds like nothing more than hypnotism. It may not even be that big a deal with this technique. What are some reasons to exchange bodies like clothes anyway?

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Personally based on what he's said about the Rinnegan it appears fairly legendary to me. I also think it's kind of obvious that it's a BL. I mean really I doubt they were doing experiments on themselves when they were kids. He didn't say it was a myth. The wording is "I always discounted them as being a myth or folk-tale" after he mentioned that Rinnegan was said to have come from heaven it-self as well as being called the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques. All of which hints that the Rinnegan was quite legenday (atleast to other people) , but Jiraiya thought the stories were far fetched and untrue and therefore discounted them.

I think the overall content pretty much should tell a person it's a BL, first they were children who it appears to have had no or very little ninja training so I doubt that it was from extensive clan training or experiments when the Rinnegan appeared. Since it says it's the strongest of the 3 great eye techniques and we've only seen 2 other eye techniques in Sharingan and Byakugan; both of which are BL's I think it's safe to assume that Rinnegan is a BL and with the fact that it a trait that appeared in one of the children with no ninja training, until Jiraiya came along. Jiraiya appears to know what the Rinnegan looks like from the legends he heard about it as he first mentions the ripples in the eyes...

Jiraiyi never said it was a bloodline limit, just that the creator of ninjutsu had those eyes. There was no mention of a clan containing those eyes, no mention of the eyes being passed down to the creator, and only until Nagato showed up has Jiraiyi even seen or known about a person to actually have it. Blood line limit is a special power passed down from generation to generation, and from what little Jiraiyi said was that it was possessed by a sole ninja, not by a whole clan. That's why I stated that Jiraiyi never said it was a bloodline line limit, and whether or not you believe it to be obviously a bloodline limit (which I think it is as well) doesn't make it true that Jiraiyi said it was, which was the original argument in the first place; so i think you missed my point.

As for it being legendary; again, it's not whether or not it seems legendary to you or to me, but the fact that Jiraiyi never said it was legendary. He made it sound like a fairytale for ninja toddlers.

Originally Posted by tramadrama

There is a lot of talk about soul transfer and stuff and it may be accurate, but with Pein's eyes, the shapes and whirls and all, the idea of hypnotism just occurred to me. What if this technique just happens to be a form of hypnotism where he has the ability to control people and nothing more. Remember the Sand ninja guy that was Itachi but when he died, he wasn't? What if this is an extension of that technique? To be able to control bodies to do your bidding and the possibility of all of them being awake sounds like nothing more than hypnotism. It may not even be that big a deal with this technique. What are some reasons to exchange bodies like clothes anyway?

So Nagato hyponotized that chunnin to kill himself? Is that what you're saying? Seems plausible, but then it's too similar to Ino's clan's ability, which would be kinda boring to me.

[That Other Ninja]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

So Nagato hyponotized that chunnin to kill himself? Is that what you're saying? Seems plausible, but then it's too similar to Ino's clan's ability, which would be kinda boring to me.

I thought if Ino is hurt while inside the body of someone else, she feels the effects of it aswell? What you're talking about is something Shikamaru does with his shadow imitation stuff.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja

I thought if Ino is hurt while inside the body of someone else, she feels the effects of it aswell? What you're talking about is something Shikamaru does with his shadow imitation stuff.

Actually I was thinking about what Ino's dad did with the two sand ninjas when he made them fight each other.

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

There is a lot of talk about soul transfer and stuff and it may be accurate, but with Pein's eyes, the shapes and whirls and all, the idea of hypnotism just occurred to me. What if this technique just happens to be a form of hypnotism where he has the ability to control people and nothing more. Remember the Sand ninja guy that was Itachi but when he died, he wasn't? What if this is an extension of that technique? To be able to control bodies to do your bidding and the possibility of all of them being awake sounds like nothing more than hypnotism. It may not even be that big a deal with this technique. What are some reasons to exchange bodies like clothes anyway?

Don't those hypnotism circle things use swirls converging on one point rather than circles? Madara's mask + sharingan is more of a nod towards hypnosis than Pain's eyes.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by tatami

naruto having a doujutsu is something not happening i guess...
he has the kyubi what else he need?

also yamato said he should use his own chakra then kyubi chakra...

i dunno what to think... for me at some point kyubi will be unleashed or extracted from naruto in order not to destroy him but if it happens then naruto will loose all his speciality...

and jiraiya showing the "key" is supporting my ideas but i really dont know how it will end...


basically thats why i read the manga

I think If jiraya dies we will see naruto unleash 5 or maybe even 6 tails in a fit of rage.



At one point they are probably, even if its briefly, show what he will be like with all nine tails but I doubt that it would be for a fight like pein.

Originally Posted by abazou

if his eyes are so great and more powerful than sharingan then why didnt orochimaru go after him

oro is after jutsu's not just raw power, the sharingan see jutsu's remember

[tatami]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I think If jiraya dies we will see naruto unleash 5 or maybe even 6 tails in a fit of rage.



At one point they are probably, even if its briefly, show what he will be like with all nine tails but I doubt that it would be for a fight like pein.



oro is after jutsu's not just raw power, the sharingan see jutsu's remember

he will survive!!!!!


and oro is after sharingan in order to make it easy to learn jutsus which was his ambition in the begining.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by KurayamiLeader

Is it just me, or does it look like they are all awake simultaneously? I liked it better when Pein was just AL, now its all weird DBZ stuff.

Well see, that is exactly the reason I used the word "Reminisce" in my post, it is most likely the current Pain reminiscing with Jiraiya about all the bodies he has acquired over the years and as he mentions / thinks of them, they flash in to images hence, reminisce. In other words, we can not simply just discredit the validity of this spoiler simply due to the fact "All the bodies seem to be awake simultaneously" because, that might not be the case at all. It is most likely just a reminiscent flashback. None the less I stand by what I stated in my original post. We will just have to wait and see.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

Jiraiyi never said it was a bloodline limit, just that the creator of ninjutsu had those eyes. There was no mention of a clan containing those eyes, no mention of the eyes being passed down to the creator, and only until Nagato showed up has Jiraiyi even seen or known about a person to actually have it. Blood line limit is a special power passed down from generation to generation, and from what little Jiraiyi said was that it was possessed by a sole ninja, not by a whole clan. That's why I stated that Jiraiyi never said it was a bloodline line limit, and whether or not you believe it to be obviously a bloodline limit (which I think it is as well) doesn't make it true that Jiraiyi said it was, which was the original argument in the first place; so i think you missed my point.

As for it being legendary; again, it's not whether or not it seems legendary to you or to me, but the fact that Jiraiyi never said it was legendary. He made it sound like a fairytale for ninja toddlers.



So Nagato hyponotized that chunnin to kill himself? Is that what you're saying? Seems plausible, but then it's too similar to Ino's clan's ability, which would be kinda boring to me.

oh ic...i missed understood what you were saying...my bad