Valvrave the Liberator 2 - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[KleenexGhost]

He primarily gets hate due to being the guy who killed Aina. And now he's killed Yamada.

But like you said, he's just doing his job.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by LystAP

I don't get the Q-vier hate either, like someone said before, he's being precisely what he's supposed to be, a loyal, skilled, but slightly psychotic super-soldier. He's probably one of the most competent (and/or fortunate (both ideal traits for any soldier)) opponents here, and if there were any justice, he would probably survive all of this. There's never been any contradictions with any of his actions or loyalties (unlike certain others), and if anything he'll be one of the first soldiers to turn on Cain, now that his comrades' "defections/rebellions" have been justified.

I think the same and he's amusing to watch. Saying this by someone who would have wanted Lieselotte alive and all, but he's too hilarious to kill.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

That's why I said the Magius were necessary in our previous discussions and why the kamitsuki wouldn't be accepted without their existence. Enemies can be united together against a common foe: that was the talk unsubtle one in this episode of why Dorssia and ARUS (declared enemies to most) joined forces as best friends forever in a heartbeat. The only way for the humans to give kamitsuki a chance would be if they act together and get to know them against a common enemy: the Council of 101.

That's actually even the basis of L-Elf and Haruto relationship. They mistrusted each others for a long time but eventually came to terms with each others, but only after they, who were strangers and enemies, worked together towards a common goal.

It's not going to be easy. L-Elf admitted it's going to take a long time, but it's possible.

The only problem with that is there is absolutely no explaination to tell the difference between the students and Amadeus, all they did was show that he was the same as them. I honestly don't think that the humans will ever accept the students again. That's why they are still at war in the future and the Empire isn't near Earth.
In fact, since the Magius are pretty much the same as the Kamitsuki in the immortality department, and they are now going to find themselves cornered as well, it's actually more likely that the two of them will join up in order to protect each other from the humans. L-elf's plan does include his beloved's people as well, to reject them all would be to reject her, and that's something he's not going to do.

Q-vier is fairly popular in Japan, actually. If you want to go for actually hated characters who they wish death upon it's Shoko since episode 21. He doesn't really have a hatefanbase the way Haruto and Shoko acquired. Look at the last results for popular scenes in last episodes: "Q-vier chat with X-eins" is second while the most popular is "Thunder hating/getting angry at Shoko".

Actually, he's pretty popular with the cast and staff as well from what I hear. It's pretty much because unlike the other characters, he's an actual kid, who had no actual choices in life and that is why he acts psychopathic. It makes him a sympathetic character despite how many deaths he's caused, and I've heard from many that through they are angry at what he's done, they still can't really want him to die. Of all the characters of worth, the only one that he killed that was really notable was Thunder. Aina was hit in crossfire and was collateral damage, plus she wasn't in the show enough for people to really care about her. Moses death didn't matter in the long run, and everyone else was grunts. And because we can see that he's actually a normal kid under all of that, many like to give him a pass. I don't hate him, and I too would actually not mind if he lived either.

[KleenexGhost]

^ Plus Yuki Kaji is a pretty popular seiyuu

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Actually, he's pretty popular with the cast and staff as well from what I hear. It's pretty much because unlike the other characters, he's an actual kid, who had no actual choices in life and that is why he acts psychopathic. It makes him a sympathetic character despite how many deaths he's caused, and I've heard from many that through they are angry at what he's done, they still can't really want him to die. Of all the character of worth, the only one that he killed that was really notable with Thunder. Aina was hit in crossfire and was collateral damage, plus she wasn't in the show enough for people to really care about her. Moses death didn't matter in the long run, and everyone else was grunts. And because we can see that he's actually a normal kid under all of that, many like to give him a pass. I don't hate him, and I too would actually not mind if he lived either.

You kinda, maybe, somewhat, possibly described a Rolo-like character. :x
A-drei vs. Q-vier will be fun to watch.
I'm personally not a fan of Yuki Kaji so yea........

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

The only problem with that is there is absolutely no explaination to tell the difference between the students and Amadeus, all they did was show that he was the same as them. I honestly don't think that the humans will ever accept the students again. That's why they are still at war in the future and the Empire isn't near Earth.

L-elf will take care of that now he got the world undivided attention. He will unveil the secrets. Have faith, man.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

In fact, since the Magius are pretty much the same as the Kamitsuki in the immortality department, and they are now going to find themselves cornered as well, it's actually more likely that the two of them will join up in order to protect each other from the humans. L-elf's plan does include his beloved's people as well, to reject them all would be to reject her, and that's something he's not going to do.

They are not the same: kamitsuki were human once. Also I said the Council of 101 would be their enemies. First and foremost they have to get the rid of this. Trust in L-elf, it's been less than two hours he's back and he already did this stunt. Now he has two competent soldiers helping him!

Thunder was also trying to kill him. So it's not like he attacked someone who was going to give him a wristslap.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Thess

Thunder was also trying to kill him. So it's not like he attacked someone who was going to give him a wristslap.

And he did it in a rather skillful way too; people would praise him, if he wasn't on the opposing side.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by finalfury

I'm personally not a fan of Yuki Kaji so yea........

From what I've seen, this is what seemed to fuel the hate, at least initially. And just his character archetype in general. His victims, not so much.

[MeggieMay]

Well I finally got to see the sub at CR and Shoko actually didn't come off as badly as she did in the raw. She was putting on a front for the others and Haruto knew what she was doing. It also looks like the "she's going to live and Haruto isn't going to remember her" is a strong way it could go. The more I thought about it watching this episode the more I think half of what is going on here is an attempt to break off her connection to Haruto to move Saki into a better possession but it's been done very hamfisted IMO. I also have a feeling they will keep Shoko around just to tick off the Japanese fanbase at this point. Really, going by what the fanbase wants only works to a certain point - particularly with Sunrise shows. That said, I think we may end up with Haruto in a "Marie" state at the end of next week and that's going to be messy for everyone if they go down that path. My bet at this point on Ep 24 is it will end with a flash forward as well and if it shows Shoko alive and well I won't be surprised (heck, we could end with finding out she's alive and well and looking after what's left of Haruto for *bleep* sake - these writers have always been nuts).

So who are the Golden 7? I'm starting to think it's the original Valvrave pilots, L Elf and maybe Pino? It's who/what #7 is that's still the big mystery to me. However, I remember the comment from the first flash forward being about Saki being a original G7 and I think that might have been an nod to her being one of the few still alive. Akira may be the other.* As for Pino, lets go to Prue. The way they handled that scene left me with a bit more positive feeling of another season/move/ova. There's no way they can get into him and what's going on in one episode. I still think Cain's pulled something over on him and he's being used and Cain's behind all of this on some level (that is the Valvrave project). If not Cain, then another Magius, because I don't think the humans could have gotten to Pino had someone on the Magius side not helped out. I do think the reason Cain is going after VV1 is because he thinks he can pull Pino out with Prue in VV2. Maybe - but that may backfire with Prue ending up on VV1. That also may be what ends Haruto up either dead or not remembering anyone. I'm not sure what is a better end here for Haruto, dead or like Marie at this point.

*Last thing - Akira. The flashback seem to hint she is the princes godmother. It could be Saki married Satomi but I don't know, it still doesn't fit. While Akira's currently pissed off at Shoko, I still wonder if there's a connection between the prince, Akira and Shoko? Akira might forgive Shoko - I still think the viewership is taking what's going on with a lot less forgiveness than the character may posses.

[KleenexGhost]

Not a big Yuki Kaji fan myself. He does voice characters I like (Hyodou Issei, Eren Jaeger) but I personally don't care much for him

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

So who are the Golden 7? I'm starting to think it's the original Valvrave pilots, L Elf and maybe Pino? It's who/what #7 is that's still the big mystery to me. However, I remember the comment from the first flash forward being about Saki being a original G7 and I think that might have been an nod to her being one of the few still alive. Akira may be the other.* As for Pino, lets go to Prue. The way they handled that scene left me with a bit more positive feeling of another season/move/ova. There's no way they can get into him and what's going on in one episode. I still think Cain's pulled something over on him and he's being used and Cain's behind all of this on some level (that is the Valvrave project). If not Cain, then another Magius, because I don't think the humans could have gotten to Pino had someone on the Magius side not helped out. I do think the reason Cain is going after VV1 is because he thinks he can pull Pino out with Prue in VV2. Maybe - but that may backfire with Prue ending up on VV1. That also may be what ends Haruto up either dead or not remembering anyone. I'm not sure what is a better end here for Haruto, dead or like Marie at this point.

Maybe Q-vier will be one of them. He's still young, maybe he could be conditioned just like some of the JIOR students. I don't think Saki was born a Kamituski, unlike Haruto, whom was specifically engineered to be from birth by his insane father. Then again, we still don't know the specifics of that project.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

L-elf will take care of that now he got the world undivided attention. He will unveil the secrets. Have faith, man.



They are not the same: kamitsuki were human once. Also I said the Council of 101 would be their enemies. First and foremost they have to get the rid of this. Trust in L-elf, it's been less than two hours he's back and he already did this stunt. Now he has two competent soldiers helping him!

Thunder was also trying to kill him. So it's not like he attacked someone who was going to give him a wristslap.

I trust L-elf to be a soldier, but not a people person. I don't expect him to be good at PR, that's why he always left that up to Shoko and all the other idiot students instead. Sure the kamitsuki were humans once, when they were unborn babies. Past that, they were a sub-species of human and then eventually became altogether alien. They haven't been human in a long time. And that doesn't stop the fact that they are still not going to be accepted by humanity.

If they were just going to be accepted by the Earth again, why create their own nation? They could simply go back to the liberating JIOR idea again or something if they were just going to be good friends with the humans again. They want to create a place where they belong, ergo they don't have a place where they belong right now, meaning the Earth. And since this Empire is still growing strong in the future, I think that still true then as well.

If non-humans revealed other non-humans, especially two group that are basically the same, what reason would humanity have to not fear both? Haruto and L-elf agreed to reveal the truth, not to try to beg humanity for acceptance.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

I still wonder if there's a connection between the prince.

Box 02 art has Akira's doll on L-Elf's shoulder/arm, considering that Akira wants a place to belong and the one who isn't a kamitsuki with those ideals is L-Elf, Shoko's connection is completely unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I trust L-elf to be a soldier, but not a people person. I don't expect him to be good at PR, that's why he always left that up to Shoko and all the other idiot students instead.

He left them that task because he was in ARUS wanted list. It's not like he can't just kill off those who oppose, that's what Saki does in the future.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I trust L-elf to be a soldier, but not a people person. I don't expect him to be good at PR, that's why he always left that up to Shoko and all the other idiot students instead. Sure the kamitsuki were humans once, when they were unborn babies. Past that, they were a sub-species of human and then eventually became altogether alien. They haven't been human in a long time. And that doesn't stop the fact that they are still not going to be accepted by humanity.

If they were just going to be accepted by the Earth again, why create their own nation? They could simply go back to the liberating JIOR idea again or something if they were just going to be good friends with the humans again. They want to create a place where they belong, ergo they don't have a place where they belong right now, meaning the Earth. And since this Empire is still growing strong in the future, I think that still true then as well.

If non-humans revealed other non-humans, especially two group that are basically the same, what reason would humanity have to not fear both? Haruto and L-elf agreed to reveal the truth, not to try to beg humanity for acceptance.

I think that there will be a group from Magius defect to the Empire, not all of them, now that things come to this state, the human will see both of them as 1 type of creature, they can't hardly continue to fight in this state, but who knows, maybe Shoko will united all the humans and raised the legendary cow empire.

[username31]

Now, it was clearly shown that Shoko was created for drama sake...she is useless and can't do anything even with her PM status.
i found so much liking toward Satomi in this episode his love for Akira is so touching...also Yamada when he said to Kyuuma's shield "senpai, keep akira safe you hear", really will ship him hard with akira if he didn't die...
Saki will safe because that Kirschbaum unit commander is Kriemhild (she got L-elf phone call).. i wonder if Saki will back to battlefield since Carmilla's legs is damaged is not good for her

now it was confirmed the promise she made is to "never give up until the end", since that was pinky promise it was so strong, no wonder she still keep fighting even after 200 years in the future..

[whispo]

Re-watching the episode and couldn't help but notice that Haruto was wrecking A LOT of Kirschbaums on his own. He's become a good pilot.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by whispo

Re-watching the episode and couldn't help but notice that Haruto was wrecking A LOT of Kirschbaums on his own. He's become a good pilot.

That's because 1) they weakened the kirschbaums for the plot's sake and 2) Haruto was going full throttle in his Valvrave, sort of like what Marie did, which make VVV1 more powerful. Unfortunately, it also causes him to leak and waste runes as well, which destroys his memories faster.

[Avrorrange]

Just wondering what that ARUS scum President is going to do next? Betray the Magius and feign ignorance? Drop the facade of democracy and kill every ARUS citizen who resist against the Magius?

[VTHokiePride]

Yamada, no!!!!! The alliance will probably break down with Arus and Dorssia firing at one another during the talks or maybe the royal family takes over Dorssia again during the confusion? I pity Haruto, he's the hero of the story, but nothing goes his way and the people he saves despise him.

[Erufu]

POTENTIAL SPOILER/THEORY WARNING

In the 200 year time Skip Saki's suit and Valvrave were gold. So I always thought Thunder was gonna bite the dust and Camilla will take the left over arms and legs. But from the big explosion maybe I was wrong. Dont think there are any parts that survived.

Originally Posted by whispo

Re-watching the episode and couldn't help but notice that Haruto was wrecking A LOT of Kirschbaums on his own. He's become a good pilot.

I agree, but at the cost of a lot of memory. And we finally know what the promise was when Saki looked at her Locket. Judging from this episode, Haruto will very very likely share Marie's fate.

The only mystery left in my mind now, is who the heck is that kid ?
Shoko's descendant ? Shoko's kid. If not, why the hell will Akira become his Godmother. The only people we know with White hair are Eru Erufu and A-Drei, but Akira doesn't seem too fond of either of them. So I am guessing Shoko is the mother. Concluding from all evidences, I am leaning towards Eru Erufu X Shoko, which I found to be a very cute pairing since this scenehttp://www.entravity.com/wp-content/...stuff-food.jpg

So there I called it, IN before Sh*tstorm from Haruto X Shoko fans !!! [Dodges tomato and rotten eggs]