US Elections 2010

[cors8]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i like this too, infrastrcture improvement is long overdue in this country. However this should have been done 2 yrs ago at the start of 2008 not near the end of 2010.

Yeah. Now we'll have to go through the "But we can't afford this!" crap.

Somehow we can magically afford 2 wars but improving infrastructure will cost too much.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i like this too, infrastrcture improvement is long overdue in this country. However this should have been done 2 yrs ago at the start of 2008 not near the end of 2010.

For the record, Obama has shown himself to be more level-headed in some area's when it comes to funding mass-transit, (More grants for Streetcars, getting rid of that horrible system of cost-effectiveness) but has irrational in other areas. (Like his stubborn refusal to raise the gas tax to pay for new infrastructure.) Another factor is this, that the Dem's have made this line behind healthcare and the stimulus, despite the complaints of people like Sen. Jim Oberstar. And as I said earlier, I would rather that this Infrastructure improvement program not fund any new road mileage or widening, just maintenance of existing facilities, along with a vast increase in spending towards mass-transit, to allow for the beginning of a move away from reliance on the car for everyday use.

Originally Posted by cors8

Yeah. Now we'll have to go through the "But we can't afford this!" crap.

Somehow we can magically afford 2 wars but improving infrastructure will cost too much.

The Republican's complete inability to be mature on this issue is 90% of the reason why I won't vote for them in November.

[synaesthetic]

We can't afford to do anything, really. We're so far into the red it's not even funny.

But we can't just do nothing, either...

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by FDW

For the record, Obama has shown himself to be more level-headed in some area's when it comes to funding mass-transit, (More grants for Streetcars, getting rid of that horrible system of cost-effectiveness) but has irrational in other areas. (Like his stubborn refusal to raise the gas tax to pay for new infrastructure.) Another factor is this, that the Dem's have made this line behind healthcare and the stimulus, despite the complaints of people like Sen. Jim Oberstar. And as I said earlier, I would rather that this Infrastructure improvement program not fund any new road mileage or widening, just maintenance of existing facilities, along with a vast increase in spending towards mass-transit, to allow for the beginning of a move away from reliance on the car for everyday use.

1. this should have been part of the stimulus
2. the dems deserve their lost. Watching the dems the last 2yrs is a lesson in how snatch defeat form the jaws of victory.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

1. this should have been part of the stimulus
2. the dems deserve their lost. Watching the dems the last 2yrs is a lesson in how snatch victory formt he jaws of defeat.

Thing is, Infrastructure money was in the stimulus, there was about 8 billion available for high-speed rail, (down from the originally proposed 30 billion, but still the largest ever single investment in high-speed rail) there were the TIGER grants, (based on merit, which were given out mostly to streetcar and freight rail projects) not to mention oddles of other money given to state DOT's. (Who probably frittered it away on something stupid.)

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

We can't afford to do anything, really. We're so far into the red it's not even funny.

But we can't just do nothing, either...

Not doing on the infrastructure side is probably the stupidest we can do for economy at this time, any investment the government make now WILL pay itself back a dozen times over in the decades to come. And besides, if we can massive modal shift away from the car, and electrify our freight networks, we can make oil imports drop like a stone and knock out a huge chunk of our trade deficit in the process.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by FDW

Thing is, Infrastructure money was in the stimulus, there was about 8 billion available for high-speed rail, (down from the originally proposed 30 billion, but still the largest ever single investment in high-speed rail) there were the TIGER grants, (based on merit, which were given out mostly to streetcar and freight rail projects) not to mention oddles of other money given to state DOT's. (Who probably frittered it away on something stupid.)

the money should have been spend of roads, highways, bridges and upgrading sewers systems (some of which are over a century old and design for half the population it si currently serving).

I like high speed rail but it could have waited, same with health care reform.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the money should have been spend of roads, highways, bridges and upgrading sewers systems (some of which are over a century old and design for half the population it si currently serving).

I like high speed rail but it could have waited, same with health care reform.

Health care reform could have waited? With people losing their jobs left and right, affordable health care was and is a pressing issue. Kobra is expensive and without a way to give your family health care or any kind of coverage your playing the game of don't get sick, basically russian roulette.

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

the money should have been spend of roads, highways, bridges and upgrading sewers systems (some of which are over a century old and design for half the population it si currently serving).

I like high speed rail but it could have waited, same with health care reform.

There was a significant amount of money directed towards roads, but it was given to the state DOT's who no concept of things like "Budgeting" and "Proper Maintenance" so as I said, they more or less pissed the cash away on myriad pet projects. And yeah I would definitely support more money for the upgrades and expansion of all aspects of our infrastructure network. (Except for expansion of roads, america has enough roadway as is, and it needs to be maintained better.)

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

Health care reform could have waited? With people losing their jobs left and right, affordable health care was and is a pressing issue. Kobra is expensive and without a way to give your family health care or any kind of coverage your playing the game of don't get sick, basically russian roulette.

Simply put

Good Economy = More Democrats relected = Dems can then pass whatever they want.

Bad Economy = Resurgent Republicans = Dems out of power.

Health Care reform is important but the political realities was the ECONOMY was/is the the single most important issue of the day. Everything else could have and should have waited. Instead of concentrating ont he economy, Obama got bog down in health care reform by the republicans and the congressional dems are paying the price for it.

Obama also compound a mistake inregard to concentraing on helath care reform. He spend too much time trying to court republicans. Great if he can get any republicans on onboard but Obama should have been prepare to say f*ck bipartisanship and just pass the legislation with only Dem support which he ended up doing anyway.

he had a majority in both the house and senate. USE IT.

Originally Posted by FDW

There was a significant amount of money directed towards roads, but it was given to the state DOT's who no concept of things like "Budgeting" and "Proper Maintenance" so as I said, they more or less pissed the cash away on myriad pet projects. And yeah I would definitely support more money for the upgrades and expansion of all aspects of our infrastructure network. (Except for expansion of roads, america has enough roadway as is, and it needs to be maintained better.)

don't need more roads but they do need to be repair.

[Nosauz]

The problem is politicians are always in an election cycle, everything they do is highly scrutinized, they should be doing everything to relieve the pressures of the down economy on the working man but instead they pander to the base so that they can get reelected. If the reelection only took up the 3 months of a congresspersons time I might understand this "reelected " then do good for the people, but due to the 24hr news cycle and the constant reelection grind for representatives and the near 4 year battle for senators makes that sentiment unbearable for the people that are suffering now. If you look at how much is devoted to reelection, even the one congressman I sort of like, Al Franken is already building his war chest and he JUST got elected, he has SIX YEARS to build a record yet he's focusing on his reelection fund instead of devoting his time on the most pressing issues this nation is facing.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

The problem is politicians are always in an election cycle, everything they do is highly scrutinized, they should be doing everything to relieve the pressures of the down economy on the working man but instead they pander to the base so that they can get reelected. If the reelection only took up the 3 months of a congresspersons time I might understand this "reelected " then do good for the people, but due to the 24hr news cycle and the constant reelection grind for representatives and the near 4 year battle for senators makes that sentiment unbearable for the people that are suffering now. If you look at how much is devoted to reelection, even the one congressman I sort of like, Al Franken is already building his war chest and he JUST got elected, he has SIX YEARS to build a record yet he's focusing on his reelection fund instead of devoting his time on the most pressing issues this nation is facing.

that because he knows how to get elected. between a war chest and a record, the war chest is infinitely more important to his election chances then his record.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that because he knows how to get elected. between a war chest and a record, the war chest is infinitely more important to his election chances then his record.

It highlights the flaws our legislative body. I want people passionate about their objectives but clearly the pace we are moving toward no really significant change, will see even more slow as instead of doing their jobs all politicians are willing to do is work to get reelected and not do anything. The "paralysis" that I'm pointing out is not a good sign. I understand that the economy is important but I just feel that the politicians really aren't doing their jobs when reelection is more important to solving the problems their constituents face. The problem is that we have been a reactionary society, much like in medicine, it's better to prevent then to have a complex treatment to just bandaid the problem.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Health Care reform is important but the political realities was the ECONOMY was/is the the single most important issue of the day. Everything else could have and should have waited. Instead of concentrating ont he economy, Obama got bog down in health care reform by the republicans and the congressional dems are paying the price for it.

Health care reform is and was the #2 or #3 item after the economy on most people's lists. Technically, they attempted to fix the economy and then, while they were waiting to see the effects, they went after the number 2 thing on everyone's list. The problem ended up being that the initial efforts to repair the economy weren't enough and was only the equivalent of stopping the bleeding (and we only know this now because there is something like a 6 month lag in real economic data).

At the same time, fixing health care also helps fix the economy because if people's premiums were lowered or the uninsured were insured, they would have more money to put back into spending, thus helping the economy.

So no, waiting on health care wouldn't have been a good idea. Whether health care had been tackled or not, we would have been in a similar position. And as you pointed out, they went about it in completely the wrong manner.

[ChainLegacy]

I'd love government support for infrastructure. But considering we're the largest debtor nation in the history of civilization, I think we have bigger concerns. In good times, I'd be a democrat all the way. But let's be realistic here - our country just can't afford anymore government spending. It has nothing to do with partisanship, it is simple common sense. You can't just keep spending money when you're trillions of dollars in debt. Unfortunately for us, neither party is likely to actually do anything about it.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I'd love government support for infrastructure. But considering we're the largest debtor nation in the history of civilization, I think we have bigger concerns. In good times, I'd be a democrat all the way. But let's be realistic here - our country just can't afford anymore government spending. It has nothing to do with partisanship, it is simple common sense. You can't just keep spending money when you're trillions of dollars in debt. Unfortunately for us, neither party is likely to actually do anything about it.

Doing what you can with the massive debt you have before it completely smacks you in the face, nobody has a solution to the trillions of dollar debt that we have right now. Nor can we even come up with a situation that can come close to paying a debt that large, only a miracle will be able to save us from that.. They are just doing what they can before it becomes "Absolutely" impossible to do anything at all.

[ChainLegacy]

We're sure doing the wrong things, then. So far, all we've done, both under Bush and Obama, is worsen the situation.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

It highlights the flaws our legislative body. I want people passionate about their objectives but clearly the pace we are moving toward no really significant change, will see even more slow as instead of doing their jobs all politicians are willing to do is work to get reelected and not do anything. The "paralysis" that I'm pointing out is not a good sign. I understand that the economy is important but I just feel that the politicians really aren't doing their jobs when reelection is more important to solving the problems their constituents face. The problem is that we have been a reactionary society, much like in medicine, it's better to prevent then to have a complex treatment to just bandaid the problem.

This is one of the many reasons why I support term limits for every politician in office. Whether it's locale, state, or Federal. It was never suppose to be a career with lavish retirement benefits. That all came about many years later, and look at the problems we have with our Government now.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

We're sure doing the wrong things, then. So far, all we've done, both under Bush and Obama, is worsen the situation.

Well the Infrastructure Plan will eventually lead us out of the "Unemployment" issue we are facing, if it is kept (which could be taken out for certain circumstances) but it is only spending the possibly last bit of money we have left. Obama probably wants what is best for the people first, then care for government affairs next. Dealing with the Unemployment issue, then trying to find a way to deal with the debt. Which in my thought, would probably be to late, since the debt might reach max, and there might be nothing the government can do anymore that can even hope of lessening it.

We are probably in the worst case scenario ever right now.

[synaesthetic]

The debt is... what?

Numbers on a computer screen.

What would happen to the world, I wonder, if America defaulted on the national debt?

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The debt is... what?

Numbers on a computer screen.

What would happen to the world, I wonder, if America defaulted on the national debt?

Like how during the Revolutionary Times when the United States was in massive debt to France, and other countries after its Revolution against Great Britain, and how the President and the members of Congress just said "Oh screw it, forget this blasphemy debt... Just throw it in the gutters"

Wouldnt that cause a situation for us in another case? Maybe the other countries will... Not like us as much since we just threw a debt that they gave us money for a certain situation away?