Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[calvinguy]

Originally Posted by tejvenim

I like the pairing Lelouch x Millay because Millay is a good match for Lelouch. She's smart and mature, she's confident and have a positive attitude, she enjoy life. She can teach lelouch about the beauty of the world and the beauty of life. She's also smart so she can assist Lelouch in political matters.

Millay x Lelouch does make a good pair, even more so if you heard the sound episode when she first meets lelouch. I remember one episode in season 1 where she brings up her engagement with lloyd to see what kind of reaction Lelouch would make. Who knows maybe she does have some feelings for him.

C.C. is too cold and emotionless and boring, she can't teach Lelouch to enjoy the beauty of life.

CC may seem emotionless and boring but I believe thats just a mask shes putting up that resulted from all the tragedy shes been through. Deep down shes very vulnerable as we can see in the episode where she mind rapes Suzaku then loses consciousness. Lelouch was able to see the more "human" side of her which I find much more attractive than her usual self. Basically CC is putting up a wall to protect herself and I'm hoping to see Lelouch break that down.

Shirley and Kallen are both unconfident and insecure average high school girls. Lelouch has big dreams (to defeat Brittania) but both Shirley and Kallen have small dreams, Shirley just want to find a good boyfriend and enjoy love, Kallen just want to be a loyal subordiate of Zero just like every other rebel. They are better matched with average guys. Even though Lelouch have the ability to take good care of them, but Lelouch is a leader who is destined for great things, he don't have time for average girls. Average guys can take care of them better.

Lol seems like you have quite the hate for Shirley and Kallen. Lelouch at the moment doesn't just not have time for average girls, he doesn't have time for girls period. Kallen, CC, Shirley all go well with Lelouch in their own way, thats why theres alot of room to speculate. We'll just have to see what the code geass staff have in store for us.

[Var]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Argue if you want. Don't call upon me how it is all backwards out of the blue. Personally, I think you're the one being bent out of shape on what is basically a harmless speculation. Calm down. And no, I'm not purposely and willfully twisting anything just for the sake of doing so. Get real.

Not quite, harmless speculation only works when there's some sort of ground to speculate on. Right now, the entire SuzakuxKallen argument is in a state of perpetual freefall.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I believe Kallen, being as efficient of a secret agent as she is, she would commit more fully if she truly felt threatened enough to kill Suzaku. Also, who was it that told her to back off at the end of season 1? It was Suzaku.

As I said before, I have a feeling the only way you'd agree is if she'd actually killed him. Which is, as I said, backwards logic. You're second point is moot in that it wasn't anything Suzaku did that made her run, except maybe pointing a gun at her.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I didn't say anything about ignoring season 2. I made a point in regard to it including her interaction with Lelouch and the revelation with what happened in that final battle. How can you possibly twist my reasoning that way? I really don't understand this.

It doesn't matter how she felt at the end of S1 if she's already surpassed those feelings. The argument is eqivalent to saying that person a is an angry person because they happened to have been angry a year ago.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

She clearly was wanting the leadership of Zero all along, which is why she felt betrayed when the leader was a Britannian, and was not some almighty ideal she placed upon him. The aspect in that she 'wants attention' is not the most shallow way of considering such. I feel it's more of a subconscious thing she's doing, being able to follow both Lelouch and Zero's situations and in multiple instances, Suzaku as well.

Not quite sure how, or why for that matter, you're making an argument on subconcious actions. We've had no glimpse into her psyche and as such, its nonsensical at best to be bringing up things only a mind reader would know. Can you have the opinion? Of course. Is there any concrete evidence to support it? Not that I see.

There is a very clearly presented reason for why she follows Lelouch and why she even had moments of doubt because of Suzaku. She wishes to free japan and protect her mother, but she hates killing people. They fit respectively with what the two brought to the table.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Right. You're clearly one of those who are just too biased against Suzaku or any possibility that he may have ulterior motives. And again, all that depends on what Suzaku actually does in the future. Don't tell me what is impossible or not. That's not your call to make.

Yes, clearly I am biased against Suzaku for bringing up points about his character that have held true through the entirety of the show. That is clearly bias. Astounding, though, that you seem incapable of basing any argument on what is presented. Of course anything can happen down the road, but you don't see all that many advocates for LelouchxMilly, and that's a possibility. Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it should be humored with actual thoughts. Lest we all start humoring the idea that the world will end in 2012.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Kallen, as admiring of Zero as she is, is hardly his slave. And Lelouch's relationship with Suzaku is more of that of a rivalry. The same can't exactly be said with Kallen except they may be rivals in the battlefield.

What? How do you even figure that? Kallen stands for the exact same things as Lelouch. And Lelouch and Suzaku are not just rivals, they are opposing gale force winds, ready to destroy anything in between them.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I'm talking about Suzaku's own feelings of reconciliation. Maybe you should actually try to understand what I write before retorting like that.

I understood, and you're argument is an immense stretch of disbelief. Suzaku does not want reconciliation between rebels and Britannia. Did you not watch 24-25? That is the new Suzaku, and that Suzaku was killing everything in sight. Mayhaps, you should actually base these ''reconciliation" arguments on something other than wishful thinking?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Oh please. Seed did have allegiances that did mean something, except it did have a mediator group in Orb. "backwards logic is backwards". Oh geez, does that make it sound like you actually have a clincher of an argument there?

Allegiance mean nothing if you're friend can persuade you to join the otherside. That's a crappy allegiance. No, but backwards logic is backwards.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Kallen being bewildered at all the doublehanded and intellectual gameplan of Zero shows that Kallen isn't exactly the thinker of the group. She simply follows orders. And she is human and it no doubt was a bit of a shock that Zero was actually a Britannian and a former prince no less.

Only a robot wouldn't be shocked if the person leading your rebel faction happened to also be the prince of what you're fighting.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

You're making it sound like she's some iron clad follower of Zero, but I believe a few twists and turns and nothing will ever become truly certain with Kallen. Except as of right now, Zero's old plan is still in effect so she'll stick with Kallen obviously. If you note what I say inbetween the lines, I'm not saying she'll magically fly to Suzaku instantly. It's just a what-if scenario.

No, she had her twists and turns in S1 and she didn't leave Zero behind. Your what if scenario has no basing in the real world. She can't just leave Zero and somehow work her way to Suzaku's side. She'd be executed in a heart beat. For better or worse, she and Zero are stuck with one another till the end.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Being smarmy has nothing to do with speculative argument. And again, why does someone need to bluntly and openly express their love for that to ever be an option? To say that it is so, that IS a very shallow argument.

Again, all this is mere speculation and even the season 1 had a lot of Suzaku/Kallen moments than it was probably possible. Don't get your ankles twisted about it.

Speaking solely of how Suzaku may feel about Kallen and Lelouch and their war against Britannia, it's pretty obvious that he clearly knows what's going on between the two ideals. He chose to side one way, the others the opposite. On that aspect of choosing sides alone, it's doubtful that Suzaku has hard feelings for either Kallen or Lelouch in the fact that they're enemies. Except Lelouch did put a big monkey wrench to Euphie's plans and that's another layer of conflict there. I don't think that really has much to do against Kallen by itself.

They don't need to express love but they need to show some sort of affinity. You can't base an argument for a pairing on nothing.

Had a lot of Suzaku/Kallen moments... really? I remember three: Island, Room where Suzaku told her he'd not reveal her identity, and ... hard pressed to even think of a third one.

Suzaku definately has no hard feelings for Lelouch, I mean that's why he shot him, turned him in, and wilfully stood by as the very purpose of his best friend's life was taken away. Kallen is Lelouch's right hand, she was in S1 when she and Suzaku tried to kill one another countless times, and she is, again, in S2 with even more to keep her stuck to Zero.

[calvinguy]

Originally Posted by Theron

Also on a side note as long as I remember it: why I don’t want to see Lelouch x Shirley having any future? Well it is because of the form it took in R1. I agree that she was cute being in love and stuff being another example of a cliché "first love" experience, but Lelouch hardly gave any expression concerning her personally not the whole situation in general. It was evident that he hasn’t shown any affection beyond simple friendship. And it ended at this point. I don’t like a romance plot to be handled in such way. It is time for a serious relationship, deeper connection between both characters. Also I would hate the pairing question to be resolved at the end of the series. The revelation taking place in the second half of R2 and than even more interaction – that would be the best scenario at least for me personally.

I agree with you when you say that you don't want the pairing decision to suddenly be resolved in the end. There has to be some sort of development between the characters, you can't just suddenly stick 2 people together and have them be together in the end just becuase thats how it'll likely end up. For me personally, I don't care who Lelouch ends up with as long as their relationship gets developed well trhoughout the series, be it kallen, shirley or cc... as long as its not Nina(shivers.)

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Theron

That wasn't the point that I tried to make. You are actually right about the whole 'I want to imagine… etc.' although that has a little different meaning to me. I have brought the amnesia theme up because it is why she did all of this in the first place. That whim was a direct response to a tiny piece of memory that she I would say accidentally remembered. I don’t see anything wrong even in deluding yourself for a moment, making yourself believe that you actually know who you are and where you are coming from. Also she doesn’t really acted on a whim that much. There is that cave scene, than there is the first kiss scene although it can be argued. Most of her actions are purely dictated by logic. The moments when she acts as a normal woman are extremely rare. This whim only stresses that even more.

A bit of selfishness and abruptness is presented in every woman. As well as some degree of illogical thinking/behaviour. It could be a tiny little bit but its there none the less. It is one of the things that make them so irresistible.

Hmm, see, I basically work under the assumption that every human operates under rational principles: concious or subconcious, selfish or altruistic, every sentient action has a cause and an intent. So I might disagree about your assertion about the abruptness and irrationality of women--what I think is, generally, even if we don't understand what they are doing, they do, and what is irresistable/fascinating about them is the very fact that we don't understand (yet. well, usually.).

So...yeah. Basically, I looked through most of C.C.'s actions that seemed to reflect who she is as a person and as a woman, and what I found was that C.C. seems to be fulfilled emotionally when she is treated as someone special, even when that means that the person who thinks she's special is unable to care and find companionship in other people. Although, that's just my analysis, and I refer to my earlier post for details. Anyway.

Originally Posted by Theron

Also on a side note as long as I remember it: why I don’t want to see Lelouch x Shirley having any future? Well it is because of the form it took in R1. I agree that she was cute being in love and stuff being another example of a cliché "first love" experience, but Lelouch hardly gave any expression concerning her personally not the whole situation in general. It was evident that he hasn’t shown any affection beyond simple friendship. And it ended at this point. I don’t like a romance plot to be handled in such way. It is time for a serious relationship, deeper connection between both characters. Also I would hate the pairing question to be resolved at the end of the series. The revelation taking place in the second half of R2 and than even more interaction – that would be the best scenario at least for me personally.

Well, although it's true that Shirley doesn't really get enough screentime with Lelouch for us to see a lot of what she meant to him, there are still several clues. Lelouch's words in episode 14 are straight from his mouth: "I never realized how often her smile saved me. We will never laugh or fight like that again." So, we learn that Lelouch liked her smile quite a bit, and also laughed/faught with her like normal (close) friends do. Other notable moments were episode 2 where Shirley was the one Lelouch turned to to find out if Shinjuku had made the news, and episode 3 where when Lelouch is worrying about his and Nunally's identities being revealed, he says "Shirley and Rivalz would be seperated from us". These further entrench Shirley as someone who is an important and prominent part of his daily life. Finally, if you're looking for Lelouch's thoughts which are more explicitly romantic, you've got the lyrics to Masquerade, which seem to be entirely from his perspective. Additionally, what with episodes 12-14 and all, we've certainly got enough 'deep' material; Shirley's father's death, her tainting of herself by shooting somebody for him, Lelouch's identity as Zero...So all in all, I think a 'serious, deeper connection between both characters' is quite possible with this pairing.

[Var]

Originally Posted by calvinguy

I don't know if this has been discussed or not (sorry if it has) but after listening to the sound episodes, theres pretty big hints that the Kallen x Lelouch matchup will only ever remain one sided.

Spoiler:

C.C.: That's where you're wrong. I am an accomplice to Zero's very existence.

Kallen: (annoyed) What's that? Is that a boast about being the person closest to Zero?

C.C.: No. He won't involve the women who are truly important to him. In other words, I am completely out of his consideration.

Kallen: (slightly upset) Hm.

If what C.C said is true then both her and Kallen don't have a place in Lelouchs heart, at least not in that type of way. This opens way for Shirley x Lelouch. The way he erased her memories in order to not get her involved and also what he said to her in the leaked episode 3.

Spoiler:

C.C.: I'm back, Lelouch.

Lelouch: You certainly took your time. Heard you were with Kallen.

C.C.: Does Kallen interest you?

Lelouch: Not really.

C.C.: (quietly) Pity.

Lelouch: What's that about?

C.C.: Oh no, it's just that we had a fairly interesting conversation -- regarding Zero's face.

Lelouch: Oi -- what have you told her?

C.C.: Can't tell you.

Lelouch: What?

C.C.: That's what a contract means -- one between women.

Here we have some more clues that Kallen x Lelouch most likely won't happen. BTW the translations are from galvea's live journal, very good detailed translations.

That's pretty out dated, however, no one was really basing any argument for LelouchxKallen or C.C.xLelouch on what happened in S1 alone. S1, on its own, doesn't frame much of anything for any pairing except Shirley. Its what happens in S2 that will determine the results. Though this does give me plenty of firewood for KallenxC.C.!

It's also a double edged sword, in that Lelouch did involve Shirley as well, so this would only really be a plus for Milly or some sidelines character. Since, of course...

Spoiler for leak spoiler:

Recked Shirley's chances. When Lelouch involved her as a facade.

So if anything, its either nothing at all, or evidence against both C.C. and Kallen.

[calvinguy]

Originally Posted by Var

That's pretty out dated, however, no one was really basing any argument for LelouchxKallen or C.C.xLelouch on what happened in S1 alone. S1, on its own, doesn't frame much of anything for any pairing except Shirley. Its what happens in S2 that will determine the results. Though this does give me plenty of firewood for KallenxC.C.!

LOL i will bring the oil and we'll light up this bonfire.

[KrimzonStriker]

I suppose I'll have get out my moccasins from the closet and do a rain dance after all >_>

[Theron]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Hmm, see, I basically work under the assumption that every human operates under rational principles: concious or subconcious, selfish or altruistic, every sentient action has a cause and an intent. So I might disagree about your assertion about the abruptness and irrationality of women--what I think is, generally, even if we don't understand what they are doing, they do, and what is irresistable/fascinating about them is the very fact that we don't understand (yet. well, usually.).

A long time ago I did the same thing. Than I have learned that more than 60% of Earth human population are incurable hopeless idiots. I still treat everyone as a reasonable person until it has been proven otherwise, but I also always keep in mind that stupidity is like a dangerous rapidly spreading plague. That's in general.

As for woman, there is a seed of irrationality and abruptness in every single one of them. No, that's not what I really mean... It's like they use some different kind of logic, it is the same algorithm at the first sight, but it always seems that a part of it ether missing or the whole thing is put together in the wrong way. Strikingly it works and the results are mostly the same. There is also emotions that sway any character be it male or female in often a surprising manner. There is a ton of things to consider so you can never use the same standards to everyone. Not that you do, I presume. Bah, I used too many words. Psychology was always one of my favourite hobbies.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

So...yeah. Basically, I looked through most of C.C.'s actions that seemed to reflect who she is as a person and as a woman, and what I found was that C.C. seems to be fulfilled emotionally when she is treated as someone special, even when that means that the person who thinks she's special is unable to care and find companionship in other people. Although, that's just my analysis, and I refer to my earlier post for details. Anyway.

I still believe that you judge her without enough evidence. I have to repeat myself, we hardly know what exactly her life was like all these years. There is only one person from her past that we know about - Mao. That’s it. To assuming anything based only on this relationship is highly subjective. Also I doubt that anyone not depending on a gender wouldn't want or like to be someone special to another someone. That’s practically why people create family ties, falling in love with each other. It is absolutely normal human desire. So I say that your analysis is still very much arguable.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Well, although it's true that Shirley doesn't really get enough screentime with Lelouch for us to see a lot of what she meant to him, there are still several clues. Lelouch's words in episode 14 are straight from his mouth: "I never realized how often her smile saved me. We will never laugh or fight like that again." So, we learn that Lelouch liked her smile quite a bit, and also laughed/faught with her like normal (close) friends do. Other notable moments were episode 2 where Shirley was the one Lelouch turned to to find out if Shinjuku had made the news, and episode 3 when Lelouch is worrying about his and Nunally's identities being revealed, he says "Shirley and Rivalz would be seperated from us".

All that you just listed are the evidence only to one thing - he thinks of her as of a friend. Nothing more. There are no romantic feelings. More than that: he never even thought in that direction not even once. Time after time he was surprised by her actions, that by the thought that she has feelings for him. I'm amazed at how everybody just concentrates at what the female characters do or think and much less people really considered whet Lelouch does or thinks. From his side there never was any indication of anything beyond friendship.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Finally, if you're looking for Lelouch's thoughts which are more explicitly romantic, you've got the lyrics to Masquerade, which seem to be entirely from his perspective. Additionally, what with episodes 12-14 and all, we've certainly got enough 'deep' material; Shirley's father's death, her tainting of herself by shooting somebody for him, Lelouch's identity as Zero...So all in all, I think a 'serious, deeper connection between both characters' is quite possible with this pairing.

Man! For pete's sake, will somebody stop dragging that song along?! It is a song! It is there to create an atmosphere. There in no indication whatsoever that any of the songs have to do with the plot itself. Lelouch doesn't sing that song, the song isn’t there for that purpose. What he actually says is only "a friend". Stop confusing background music with actual dialog lines. Also the events that you have named still don’t have to do with the romance. There is a clear one-sided first love from her side and clear friendship from his. And basta.

Akhem... No offence intended by the way. I almost always talk like that.

[KallenMiki]

Yay! KallenXLelouch 4 ever!
here...I just edited this one and put them together...

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Theron

All that you just listed are the evidence only to one thing - he thinks of her as of a friend. Nothing more. There are no romantic feelings. More than that: he never even thought in that direction not even once.

Lelouch disagrees with you and such a flat out denial. That was not the answer he gave when asked if he loved her. It is true he didn't confirm it either, but he didn't deny the possibility, which is what you just did. He offered an ambiguous statement that didn't specify either.

[Bballmvp4]

Theron, you never should doubt background music. It is there for a reason other than sounding nice.

Also, most people aren't stupid, they're ignorant. Even so, 60% might be a little too generous.

[Theron]

Of course it is only my opinion and things can be interpreted differently by different people but I still believe that my observations are true. He stated himself that he lost "a friend". Why he didn't give a strait answer? Well cloud you do that at that point? He just swept her memories away! He practically severed any connection to her. In my opinion, any normal person would be puzzled by that situation. Except that conversation there is no actions or thoughts from him that could have even hinted a romantic relationship.

Also I don't recall at this time but does "suki" necessary mean affection? (I’m too lazy to check it out)

On the other hand we can’t entirely exclude the possibility that it was just a safe bet for the authors - never to give any specific answer. There are a lot of possibilities that way. Keeping the viewers guessing till the very end. I certainly hope that it is not the case with CG, but there is also this possibility.

Originally Posted by Bballmvp4

Theron, you never should doubt background music. It is there for a reason other than sounding nice.

Also, most people aren't stupid, they're ignorant. Even so, 60% might be a little too generous.

The main themes in the plot usually are presented through the dialogs, action scenes or narration. I don't really see any of the surroundings as for example background music to necessary has any relation to the plot. It can have some hints - as the author desires - but hints are nothing more than hints and can not be treated like an actual line from a dialog i.e. undoubtful part of the plot.

There are many - unbelievably many - of both kind.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Var

Not quite, harmless speculation only works when there's some sort of ground to speculate on. Right now, the entire SuzakuxKallen argument is in a state of perpetual freefall.

What's the opposite of harmless speculation? I made my point. Get off my back already.

As I said before, I have a feeling the only way you'd agree is if she'd actually killed him. Which is, as I said, backwards logic. You're second point is moot in that it wasn't anything Suzaku did that made her run, except maybe pointing a gun at her.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. This is called 'speculation'.

It doesn't matter how she felt at the end of S1 if she's already surpassed those feelings. The argument is eqivalent to saying that person a is an angry person because they happened to have been angry a year ago.

It's because Zero is the only way to fight Britannia properly. If there were viable alternatives, Kallen's loyalty could've been truly tested. Whether she surpassed her feelings or not barely even matters at this point. I'm not saying she's going to pass on Zero/Lelouch for it, but it's not exactly beyond being a sticking point and Kallen will probably have to keep Lelouch at an arm's length as far as personal trust may go. Professional trust, she has that already.

Not quite sure how, or why for that matter, you're making an argument on subconcious actions. We've had no glimpse into her psyche and as such, its nonsensical at best to be bringing up things only a mind reader would know. Can you have the opinion? Of course. Is there any concrete evidence to support it? Not that I see.

All the Suzaku/Kallen moments are not out of the thin air. Stop being scandalous for scandal's sakes. I'm not a fucking politician. Again, get the hell out of my hair.

There is a very clearly presented reason for why she follows Lelouch and why she even had moments of doubt because of Suzaku. She wishes to free japan and protect her mother, but she hates killing people. They fit respectively with what the two brought to the table.

Wow, is that anything I didn't say? Are you actually agreeing on something instead of looking at the "SuperKnuckles" name and bashing anything on it?

Yes, clearly I am biased against Suzaku for bringing up points about his character that have held true through the entirety of the show. That is clearly bias. Astounding, though, that you seem incapable of basing any argument on what is presented. Of course anything can happen down the road, but you don't see all that many advocates for LelouchxMilly, and that's a possibility. Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it should be humored with actual thoughts. Lest we all start humoring the idea that the world will end in 2012.

THIS IS A "ROMANCE IN CODE GEASS" DISCUSSION. GET ON WITH THE PROGRAM. Also, lighten up. Stop being fucking accusatory because of light speculation. Also, you can't deny that Suzaku has ulterior motives beyond just merely serving Britannia here. His loyalty as I see it, is still for Euphemia since it left such an imprint on him. When he went after Lelouch, it was probably way more for Euphemia's ideals and not entirely Britannia's. I'd be curious to see how Suzaku reacts to mistreatment of the Japanese and see how things stand now. Also, I seriously doubt that not killing Lelouch really had much positive effects as far as promotions go. That whole aspect in itself just seemed fishy. Also, this is a Taniguchi Goro anime. The 'bad' guys are never that clearly cut. Especially not Suzaku. I merely think a lot can go on as far as Suzaku is concerned.

What? How do you even figure that? Kallen stands for the exact same things as Lelouch. And Lelouch and Suzaku are not just rivals, they are opposing gale force winds, ready to destroy anything in between them.

In terms of their professions and their affiliations go, that's true. But Suzaku isn't dumb enough to know that the grunts doesn't decide everything (or even, anything significant) compared to Lelouch. The ideological lead is from Lelouch, not Kallen nor rest of the Black Knights. I would not be surprised if Suzaku is able to make more non-violent contact with members of Lelouch's social circle including Kallen, though it would be more unlikely now. But the school's weird dynamic could probably make it happen.

I understood, and you're argument is an immense stretch of disbelief. Suzaku does not want reconciliation between rebels and Britannia. Did you not watch 24-25? That is the new Suzaku, and that Suzaku was killing everything in sight. Mayhaps, you should actually base these ''reconciliation" arguments on something other than wishful thinking?

Being angry in the passion after death of Euphemia is one thing, long term goals may be another. I thought it was you who said lingering feelings don't matter long term?

"new Suzaku"? Don't make me laugh. If Suzaku was remade into a total killer, Lelouch had no chance to live at the end of season 1. Again, I don't buy the idea that letting him live really does anything as far as actual promotions go. Also, we've seen too little of him so far to actually say he truly has changed other than still working to move up the ladder.

Allegiance mean nothing if you're friend can persuade you to join the otherside. That's a crappy allegiance. No, but backwards logic is backwards.

It's not backwards or frontwards or sideways. It's not about allegiances as far as the actual fighting goes, but on a more personal level. Obviously, all the romances in Geass is hampered by political circumstances. The ENTIRE first season about about that paradox. We'll see how much of that plays out with the likes of Rolo and Suzaku later on.

Only a robot wouldn't be shocked if the person leading your rebel faction happened to also be the prince of what you're fighting.

Wow, tell me something I don't know for once?

No, she had her twists and turns in S1 and she didn't leave Zero behind. Your what if scenario has no basing in the real world. She can't just leave Zero and somehow work her way to Suzaku's side. She'd be executed in a heart beat. For better or worse, she and Zero are stuck with one another till the end.

I'm not talking about her joining the Britannian side. Get real. If anything, she'd go independent or work with other lesser resistance like she always had before Zero came about. I'm not saying all these personal relationships would happen as far as the bulk of Zero's rebellion happens. Perhaps when the fighting winds down and when/if Zero wins in the end. I would not be surprised if Suzaku goes down fighting, but I seriously doubt he truly wants to continue the violence if the fighting is at an end.

They don't need to express love but they need to show some sort of affinity. You can't base an argument for a pairing on nothing.

Had a lot of Suzaku/Kallen moments... really? I remember three: Island, Room where Suzaku told her he'd not reveal her identity, and ... hard pressed to even think of a third one.

And in almost all those instances, he basically did the total opposite of what a soldier should logically do against terrorists, and Kallen got to see that Suzaku isn't some killing machine as he was made out to be. Those few moments amount to a lot more than something truly out of the air like Milly X Lelouch.

Also, SPECULATION, remember?

Suzaku definately has no hard feelings for Lelouch, I mean that's why he shot him, turned him in, and wilfully stood by as the very purpose of his best friend's life was taken away.

Stop fucking spinning everything as if you're onto something here. YES, I KNOW. Get over it.

Kallen is Lelouch's right hand, she was in S1 when she and Suzaku tried to kill one another countless times, and she is, again, in S2 with even more to keep her stuck to Zero.

We won't know for sure unless Zero pulls more stunts and when Suzaku finally gets involved again. Never say never as far as Geass goes.

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

What's the opposite of harmless speculation? I made my point. Get off my back already.



Shoulda, coulda, woulda. This is called 'speculation'.



It's because Zero is the only way to fight Britannia properly. If there were viable alternatives, Kallen's loyalty could've been truly tested. Whether she surpassed her feelings or not barely even matters at this point. I'm not saying she's going to pass on Zero/Lelouch for it, but it's not exactly beyond being a sticking point and Kallen will probably have to keep Lelouch at an arm's length as far as personal trust may go. Professional trust, she has that already.



All the Suzaku/Kallen moments are not out of the thin air. Stop being scandalous for scandal's sakes. I'm not a fucking politician. Again, get the hell out of my hair.



Wow, is that anything I didn't say? Are you actually agreeing on something instead of looking at the "SuperKnuckles" name and bashing anything on it?



THIS IS A "ROMANCE IN CODE GEASS" DISCUSSION. GET ON WITH THE PROGRAM. Also, lighten up. Stop being fucking accusatory because of light speculation. Also, you can't deny that Suzaku has ulterior motives beyond just merely serving Britannia here. His loyalty as I see it, is still for Euphemia since it left such an imprint on him. When he went after Lelouch, it was probably way more for Euphemia's ideals and not entirely Britannia's. I'd be curious to see how Suzaku reacts to mistreatment of the Japanese and see how things stand now. Also, I seriously doubt that not killing Lelouch really had much positive effects as far as promotions go. That whole aspect in itself just seemed fishy. Also, this is a Taniguchi Goro anime. The 'bad' guys are never that clearly cut. Especially not Suzaku. I merely think a lot can go on as far as Suzaku is concerned.



In terms of their professions and their affiliations go, that's true. But Suzaku isn't dumb enough to know that the grunts doesn't decide everything (or even, anything significant) compared to Lelouch. The ideological lead is from Lelouch, not Kallen nor rest of the Black Knights. I would not be surprised if Suzaku is able to make more non-violent contact with members of Lelouch's social circle including Kallen, though it would be more unlikely now. But the school's weird dynamic could probably make it happen.



Being angry in the passion after death of Euphemia is one thing, long term goals may be another. I thought it was you who said lingering feelings don't matter long term?

"new Suzaku"? Don't make me laugh. If Suzaku was remade into a total killer, Lelouch had no chance to live at the end of season 1. Again, I don't buy the idea that letting him live really does anything as far as actual promotions go. Also, we've seen too little of him so far to actually say he truly has changed other than still working to move up the ladder.



It's not backwards or frontwards or sideways. It's not about allegiances as far as the actual fighting goes, but on a more personal level. Obviously, all the romances in Geass is hampered by political circumstances. The ENTIRE first season about about that paradox. We'll see how much of that plays out with the likes of Rolo and Suzaku later on.



Wow, tell me something I don't know for once?



I'm not talking about her joining the Britannian side. Get real. If anything, she'd go independent or work with other lesser resistance like she always had before Zero came about. I'm not saying all these personal relationships would happen as far as the bulk of Zero's rebellion happens. Perhaps when the fighting winds down and when/if Zero wins in the end. I would not be surprised if Suzaku goes down fighting, but I seriously doubt he truly wants to continue the violence if the fighting is at an end.



And in almost all those instances, he basically did the total opposite of what a soldier should logically do against terrorists, and Kallen got to see that Suzaku isn't some killing machine as he was made out to be. Those few moments amount to a lot more than something truly out of the air like Milly X Lelouch.

Also, SPECULATION, remember?



Stop fucking spinning everything as if you're onto something here. YES, I KNOW. Get over it.



We won't know for sure unless Zero pulls more stunts and when Suzaku finally gets involved again. Never say never as far as Geass goes.

Var strikes again! Var one New guy 0
A little tip don't get so emotional and please refrain from cursing it does not help your cause

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Witacume

Var strikes again! Var one New guy 0
A little tip don't get so emotional and please refrain from cursing it does not help your cause

It his some forum favoritism I don't know? Also, what does cursing have anything to do with it? I make a light allusion to a 'POSSIBLE romance' that I myself have said it was a far stretch as current situations go, and the guy jumps on it all patronizing and like I don't know the obvious goings on in the show. Frankly, it's insulting.

I keep making points and the guy just acts smarmy and blunt. If that is grounds for a 'discussion' around here, that's just plain ridiculous.

I made my fucking point. Is the order of the day to counteract every little thing as if we're discussing FACTs here? Even the 'romance' between CC and Lelouch is more speculative than anything. Again, get on with the program. Stop being so feely touchy with every little speculation. As far as arguing every little smarmy point for point, I'll leave it at that for now. Some people, you can't bother with. I'm not conceding anything. I just don't think it's worth the time to put it all in some 'factual light' when it clearly is all about speculation.

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

It his some forum favoritism I don't know? Also, what does cursing have anything to do with it? I make a light allusion to a 'POSSIBLE romance' that I myself have said it was a far stretch as current situations go, and the guy jumps on it all patronizing and like I don't know the obvious goings on in the show. Frankly, it's insulting.

I keep making points and the guy just acts smarmy and blunt. If that is grounds for a 'discussion' around here, that's just plain ridiculous.

I made my fucking point. Is the order of the day to counteract every little thing as if we're discussing FACTs here? Even the 'romance' between CC and Lelouch is more speculative than anything. Again, get on with the program. Stop being so feely touchy with every little speculation. As far as arguing every little smarmy point for point, I'll leave it at that for now. Some people, you can't bother with. I'm not conceding anything. I just don't think it's worth the time to put it all in some 'factual light' when it clearly is all about speculation.

ON the contrary Var is always arguing, and a lot of people disagree with his views like yourself. This is suppose to be a nice, and productive Argument. There is no need to curse. What i am saying is your getting a little emotional so calm down and be Civil is all i'm asking. You bring up good points, and thats cool but it hurts your cause if you keep Curse just to Curse. Make your points and disagree with his.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Theron

Of course it is only my opinion and things can be interpreted differently by different people but I still believe that my observations are true. He stated himself that he lost "a friend". Why he didn't give a strait answer? Well cloud you do that at that point? He just swept her memories away! He practically severed any connection to her. In my opinion, any normal person would be puzzled by that situation. Except that conversation there is no actions or thoughts from him that could have even hinted a romantic relationship.

Also I don't recall at this time but does "suki" necessary mean affection? (I’m too lazy to check it out)

This isn't even about interpretation - it is about twisting something Lelouch said to one extreme end for it conform to what you want it to say.

L: "A friend. Yes ... Probably ... a precious one.
S: "You loved her, didn't you?"
L: "...I don't know anymore"

He didn't give a straight answer because it was more complicated than a simple "yes" or "no" situation for him. Or to put it bluntly: he wasn't sure. And yes it implies affection. What Shirley asked then was phrased in clearly romantic sense. Besides that - Lelouch has never lied to himself and in that conversation he was talking more to himself than anyone else.

He also said he never realized how much he loved her smile ... call it the "you don't know what you have until it is lost", but thats what it essentially was. I am not saying he necessarily loved her. He is not saying it either. But you are saying he must be saying he didn't love her. Well then - argue with Lelouch on that one.

On the other hand we can’t entirely exclude the possibility that it was just a safe bet for the authors - never to give any specific answer. There are a lot of possibilities that way. Keeping the viewers guessing till the very end. I certainly hope that it is not the case with CG, but there is also this possibility

You sure are making a convenient argument which basically says you can chose to ignore whatever you want if it doesn't say what you want it to say because there is the possibility the scene actually didn't portray what the authors wanted to portray. Sorry, but thats not an argument. We either analyze the show under the assumption the scenes and dialog actually portrays what it is meant to portray or we dismiss it as one big plothole. Going by this i could take the same argument and apply it to every single scene in the show by my selective choosing, and thus this whole thread would lose its meaning.

[KrimzonStriker]

To all people trying to challenge Var. I don't recommend it unless you're me

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by Theron

Hmm... I really doubt that anyone to live even at least two lives of a normal human won’t be able to experience love at some point. Presumably she lived much longer than that so I would be really surprised to find out that she has never fallen in love before. It is a natural flow of things for a person. Avoid this outcome can only really screwed up mentally people. You of course can argue that the amount of suffering that she had to go through has left some sort of a trauma and I would agree with you. But! I think that although scars are there - in both metaphorical and physical senses – her personality isn’t damaged. If it wasn’t the case I doubt that she could open up to anybody the thing that she did at least on two occasions - with Mao and Lelouch. I suppose we are in agreement that there is a strong bond between C.C. and Lelouch? There is at the very least trust and some degree of understanding. Also both accept each other as they are. Will it develop into a romantic feeling that is the question. We’ll see.

Episode 12? *rewatched the scene* Yeah, I liked it as well. So little expression and so much meaning. Also there was an interesting comment about the contract. I personally love the scene at the end of season 1 the most. The one with a mind trap as I mentioned before.

I suppose we could consider that, but there really is no telling right now. She may have had someone she loved at some point if she was originally human and perhaps recalled some memory from that time, though given the line she may have been going by C.C. at that point. With the World of C, this also brings up the question of whether she will return there to see someone though it is just as possible that it might not happen like that and she could be encouraged to live and be happy.

Yeah, that was why I liked it as well. That scene in 25 is quite good though we can't say for sure how much that influences things later.

Originally Posted by tejvenim

I like the pairing Lelouch x Millay because Millay is a good match for Lelouch. She's smart and mature, she's confident and have a positive attitude, she enjoy life. She can teach lelouch about the beauty of the world and the beauty of life. She's also smart so she can assist Lelouch in political matters.

C.C. is too cold and emotionless and boring, she can't teach Lelouch to enjoy the beauty of life.

Shirley and Kallen are both unconfident and insecure average high school girls. Lelouch has big dreams (to defeat Brittania) but both Shirley and Kallen have small dreams, Shirley just want to find a good boyfriend and enjoy love, Kallen just want to be a loyal subordiate of Zero just like every other rebel. They are better matched with average guys. Even though Lelouch have the ability to take good care of them, but Lelouch is a leader who is destined for great things, he don't have time for average girls. Average guys can take care of them better.

I think Lloyd is a better match than Lelouch for C.C., Shirley and Kallen. In fact I think that every girls in Code Geass (Cecile, Millay, Nina, Cornelia, Nunnally) match Lloyd very well because of his eccentric carefree attitude.

Those are just qualities that she possesses and that doesn't prove a thing. Also, the only pairings that should really be considered are ones that actually had real development and scenes giving the indication that it could happen. I can only think of one scene that even slightly hinted at the pairing and even that one was quite vague. I also question what help she could even give considering her nature as well as it is not known if Lelouch is going to be heavily involved in political matters in the end.

Someone already pointed that a lot of the cold personality is a mask she puts up for various reasons. Take that away and she isn't quite like that. And how do you know she can't do such a thing? What is this fixation with Lelouch being shown the beauty of life?

Those are quite shallow explanations that are not good descriptions of either girl. And calling their dreams small is both ignorant and insulting along with the fact that you don't truly know what they want. And how do you know what Lelouch is destined for? For all we know, he could have a peaceful life in the end.

This is just silly. You are saying that Lloyd, who doesn't care about women at all has a better chance with these three?

Originally Posted by Theron

It is time for a serious relationship, deeper connection between both characters. Also I would hate the pairing question to be resolved at the end of the series. The revelation taking place in the second half of R2 and than even more interaction – that would be the best scenario at least for me personally.

I would have to agree that it would be best if the romance were handled in such a way and that a conclusion didn't suddenly happen at the end of the show like something of an afterthought though that could certainly still happen. Given that they are probably going to keep Lelouch in school for as long as it takes, interaction and some revelation for him and Shirley is certainly possible. It also wouldn't be that hard to keep her in the mix even after he left.

Lelouch and C.C. could develop like this as well I suppose, but come to some understanding that they can't be together or some such nonsense.

Originally Posted by Bballmvp4

Theron, you never should doubt background music. It is there for a reason other than sounding nice.

I must question why they gave that pairing its own theme pretty much if they weren't trying to give big hints.

Originally Posted by Skyfall

This isn't even about interpretation - it is about twisting something Lelouch said to one extreme end for it conform to what you want it to say.

L: "A friend. Yes ... Probably ... a precious one.
S: "You loved her, didn't you?"
L: "...I don't know anymore"

He didn't give a straight answer because it was more complicated than a simple "yes" or "no" situation for him. Or to put it bluntly: he wasn't sure. And yes it implies affection. What Shirley asked then was phrased in clearly romantic sense. Besides that - Lelouch has never lied to himself and in that conversation he was talking more to himself than anyone else.

He also said he never realized how much he loved her smile ... call it the "you don't know what you have until it is lost", but thats what it essentially was. I am not saying he necessarily loved her. He is not saying it either. But you are saying he must be saying he didn't love her. Well then - argue with Lelouch on that one.

Also, given romance was supposed to be kept out, they can't have him admitting he loves her since that would seal the deal right there. Of course, the fact that it seemed like it came close to something like that gives it a lot of weight. But of course, Lelouch would never be sure though it could be possible that she is lingering in his mind in terms of those feelings and as long as that weight is there every other girl could be put out of his mind when it comes to romance.

They could always pull some cliche like having him reclaim her into his life along with everything else. Actually, given Taniguchi that seems like something he would do.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

To all people trying to challenge Var. I don't recommend it unless you're me

He can't be defeated. He's evil, like C.C. : (

Spoiler:

But he can do some beautiful gif .