2011-10-08, 01:10 | Link #24961 |
The True Culprit
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The thing is, Yasu doesn't have a motive for killing anyone. There's not a court on this earth that'd convict her even if she confessed to it. If Ryukishi actually did intend her to be the culprit, then he skipped two years in her flashback because he realized he was fucked.
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2011-10-08, 05:24 | Link #24962 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Though lets say you are right. Quote:
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Though what happens if nobody finds the gold? Yasu still has to continue the game. Quote:
I can see George being an additional culprit based that the later games portrayed him in a more negative light. However Yasu also been portrayed as very emotionally/mentally unbalanced. I wouldn't put it past him/her to come up with a murder game. Quote:
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My theory is that Rosa had some kind of agreement with the culprit but he/she renegaded on it. Leading to Rosa being paranoid. |
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2011-10-08, 12:08 | Link #24963 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Well, a lot of my belief that Yasu is innocent comes from parts of episode 8:
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In any case, these pictures are all we get to see when Ange reads Eva's diary. However, for Ange the diary absolutely destroys her emotionally. Like, really bad. It doesn't automatically preclude Yasu from being a killer, but there was undoubtedly something particularly awful for Ange in there. This, in combination with Battler's acceptance of Beatrice, Yasu's lack of motive, and the narrative value in the tragic irony of Yasu being truly innocent and a martyr, convinces me that Yasu is not the culprit. She just wanted to give the gold to everyone to solve their problems. She just wanted to have a little fun by making a game or a riddle out of it. She just wanted everyone to be happy. |
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2011-10-08, 12:16 | Link #24964 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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The most you can get from the story is that Yasu is a person with hobbies some people would call "strange", that she's been heartbroken, depressed, apathetic, unable to respond negatively to the abuse she receives from people around her, and that she tries to bury those feelings by distracting herself with other things. in the case of her love life, other people. The only reason you would think she's portrayed as insane is because you NEED this assumption to rationalize her being a cold blooded murderer. And insanity isn't really a motive at all IMO. Even Ryukishi doesn't think that Yasu's insane. As dumb as it is he apparently thinks it's understandable that a woman in love would go on a killing spree! |
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2011-10-08, 12:58 | Link #24965 | ||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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More so the various implication of Shannon/Kannon as a whole beyond "ideal maid" and "comforting little brother". Quote:
Which further cemented with the portrayal in Bern's tale. Before you say THAT ISN'T THE TRUTH. I am just going to say that the portrayal isn't that much stretch compared to Kirie and Rudolf. Though with brining up 罪 that it may be "sin" not crime was huge factor for me thinking that she was the culprit. As well Wanderer's current post, leads me to doubt my interpretation. Quote:
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2011-10-08, 13:29 | Link #24966 | |||
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I wouldn't know why they should. As I said above I see nothing wrong with the presence of the unlocked door in the basement, because the only way you could use it is by saying there is a 19th person or there is a conspiracy. Well except one person...
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She vents this anger and anxiety in pretty unhealthy ways and I'd say a "minor event" might make her crumble. She's also basically dependent on money both on a personal and financial level. She wants her husband back, she has to keep a company running, she has to support her daughter and all that in a pretty single-parent hostile environment like 80's Japan. She would probably do pretty much for money, but being a mother (which is a huge theme in Umineko) she feels responsible for the children and her breaking point was reached pretty early on when Jessica was murdered. Her gun was probably loaded just as Natsuhi's was. The problem is that we can only guess what happened in the study where she was supposed to be with Shannon and Genji. I suppose that only Genji was there, as Shannon would be away "with Kanon" as Beatrice murdering Jessica in her room. He should have told her something to make her accept the Kinzô illusion, as she was still upholding it when she came back down (something along the lines of: "Father is staying in his study, he should be safe there."). The problem is how we want to solve this. Taking Shkannon as the culprit we would have to believe that she simply outsmarted Rosa and used her blindspots of:
Otherwise it also shows the rather simple and slightly blunt way in which Yasu decided to take the blame. |
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2011-10-08, 14:42 | Link #24967 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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I don't even think the gold is that much of a good motive. Quote:
Emotional/mental unbalance is just a cop out. Even if she's "lolcrazy" we should be able to understand her thought process. Ryukishi has claimed that anyone who's been in love would be able to put themselves in her shoes, and I can't put myself in the shoes of someone who murders fucking everyone she's ever known because she can't pick a boyfriend. Quote:
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My personal theory is that George is the culprit, killed everyone, Rudolf and Kyrie killed George, and Eva killed them thinking he was the culprit. This theory explains everything. Quote:
Really, given her circumstances, her personality and emotions are ENTIRELY UNDERSTANDABLE, except when ti comes to explaining why she wants to kill people. Quote:
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2011-10-08, 15:15 | Link #24968 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Meta-Beatrice is the author.
The author doesnt have to be present to kill their characters. They dont have to be deranged either. And what they want their readers to feel is certainly not fear or other negative emotions - they want them to have fun. Unconvinced? Go read the text written when you highlight the Umineko menu. The only thing that overly apparently comes out of them is that Beatrice always wants us to enjoy ourselves. It even solves the whole "Beatrice has no form" or the "18 but 19" problems. That whole "who is Beatrice", if you replace it by "Who is Ryuukishi", everything should make sense. Btw random but this japanese guy whos writting a book on how he solved Umineko (might have published it by now?) said his answer for that question was "Beatrice is the bomb". Heh... sad... The bomb is even on the island how does that even work? When I first said Bernkastel represented us readers no one took it seriously (even tho arc 1 says very directly that "sometimes she is you, and sometimes she's your only friend" or something like that), but I think its sorta accepted by now. So whats so weird about Beatrice representing the author? Last edited by UsagiTenpura; 2011-10-08 at 15:27. |
2011-10-08, 15:41 | Link #24969 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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According to her red text, "You are all alone on this island. Yet I am here, now." There is also Will's answer: "The promised reaper lowers the curtain on the tale, regardless of the witch's will." Both of those are consistent with the bomb. That said, what do you mean by the bomb not being on the island?
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2011-10-08, 16:24 | Link #24970 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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However it makes more sense if it was suppsoe to be a bribe. Quote:
Which I believe was hinted at in the tea party of E7 when Bern showed Ange the "truth". Quote:
Putting yourself in Yasu's shoes or rather Shannon/Yasu/Kannon's shoes is difficult indeed if you try to think why she would murder. What did Yasu want? If Shannon/Kanon is any indication is that they want to become human and love. In E6 we seen a trial of love where murder needs to be committed to show the resolve to make love happen. Though it possible that Yasu's resolve didn't go any further than setting up the bomb. Maybe for same reason Kinzou did, set up the bomb to think about what do with his current situation. Like I said before Wanderer's posts made me rethink Yasu's stance on the crime, that is is probable that maybe it was all just an elaborate set-up. Quote:
First she/he shoves those feelings into another self that she/he created without processing those emotions at all, then to comfort himself/herself Kanon was created. Over-imaginative or not, that is not a really healthy way to deal with reality. Quote:
Just that Yasu takes a step further by actaully playing those roles. That is where he/she is different from the rest. Quote:
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2011-10-08, 16:25 | Link #24971 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Bernkastel: And the ''Who am I'' at the end of the game? Will: The culprit, who can kill everyone by midnight (or something like that). |
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2011-10-08, 16:51 | Link #24972 | ||||||||
The True Culprit
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Given the setup she created, it seems she created a fake murder mystery the adults were in on in some way, and was testing the cousins to see which one she should devote herself to. Quote:
Well I'm in love. I'm so fucking in love with my man I can tapdance on rainbows. Yasu being a murderer still makes no goddamn sense. Arranging a huge party game to make Battler remember her, using the only thing they bonded over (mystery novels) to try and jog his memory? I understand that part. Quote:
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And EP6 was supposed to demonstrate that Battler understood Beatrice. Connect the dots. Quote:
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So Shannon giving her love to Battler means burying her love for Battler so it stops interfering with her everyday life, because until she did, it was making her depressed over absolutely everything, to the point where she felt that Jessica was subconsciously mocking her or something. It's healthiER. Still not healthy but it's a step in the right direction. Quote:
Beatrice is trying to take credit for this crime, and we're supposed to pretty much exonerate her from it. What could be the reasoning behind this other than "She didn't do it"? The alternative is that Ryukishi is telling us that serial killers are totally fine as long as they feel bad about it or if they were sad. And that's fucked up to unbelieveable degrees.
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2011-10-08, 17:23 | Link #24973 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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To be fair, he kind of did tell us this in Higurashi. |
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2011-10-08, 17:43 | Link #24974 | |||||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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However for "validity" check. If Yasu is willing to give up the gold to prove that he has the wealth to create that kind of money. They shouldn't doubt it when he has so much gold. It seems more convenient, basically "here is some gold but for your convenience I made some into enough cash to solve your immediate financial problems". More so if according to you Yasu wants them to go through rather complicated scheme, Yasu would try to appeal to them as much as possible to get their help. Lets say someone ask you for help. They gave you valuable jewelry(gold, sliver etc) and a cash card that has considerable amount of money. If you trust the person enough to believe the valuable jewelry why not trust them for the cash card? Quote:
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Even after getting to know Maria/Ange, more Maria being on the creepy side at first. Quote:
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2011-10-08, 21:07 | Link #24975 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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2011-10-08, 21:44 | Link #24976 | |
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Higurashi wasn't even that much bullshit...the problem was that nobody cared to pay much attention anymore after Minagoroshi made it all pretty clear what events transpired. But I'll agree that Ryűkishi's idea of morally just behaviour might be a little unconventional. Though he's not really alone among writers when he portrays the murder of "sinful people" as something that can be forgiven...it seems kinda off when he tries to draw this huge moral diagram of right and wrong and then still applying fairy tale morals to his story. Okay the two culprits who got away alive in Higurashi went to prison...but it was done in such an offscreen manner, it felt like he only tagged it on and didn't really mean it. Umineko felt a little less morally awkward to me, as truth and justice is not handled in that much a black and white pattern as Higurashi did. |
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2011-10-08, 21:45 | Link #24977 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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So, was that really the answer to the ''Who am I''? Was will right?
''The culprit who can kill everyone at midnight'' Can someone explain this answer? I am pretty sure she said there is no one here but you, but I am here and I'm about to kill you, who am I....isn't a culprit a person? Or does a culprit not have to be? Like, uh, tripping and piercing your head on a conveniently placed rock or getting blunt trama.... |
2011-10-08, 23:04 | Link #24980 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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