The General Discussion of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Kyon went insane three years prior to the beginning of the story and everything is happening in his mind while he's locked in a mental institution. Mikuru, Koizumi and Nagato came from his desires to meet supernatural beings, and Haruhi is the result of him desperately seeking someone who shares his beliefs.

There. Now quit saying he's god or whatever.

[Jintor]

God, I hate 'turns out the narrator was craaaaaaaaaaaazy' twists.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

At least they're better than "it was all a dream" or "Narrator is in a coma" twists...

*e* and yes, there IS a difference

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Jintor

God, I hate 'turns out the narrator was craaaaaaaaaaaazy' twists.

Me too. I've quit watching shows just because they tried to convince characters that that was the case (not identical, but similar).

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

At least they're better than "it was all a dream" or "Narrator is in a coma" twists...

*e* and yes, there IS a difference

Describe it.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

"It was all a dream" can only feasibly be used for a short story. "Narrator is in a coma" is for something significantly longer, say a novel or even a full series.

[Jintor]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

"It was all a dream" can only feasibly be used for a short story.

lol Dallas

In a particularly egregious case, Dallas undid an entire season as "just a dream". So did the sitcom Married With Children.

* To explain what happened in Dallas: the actor that played Bobby left the show, and they had Bobby hit by a car and died. After the ratings started to sink, and the actor came back, the writers retcon the entire season as a dream by Pam, causing several continuity snarls and messing up the Spin Off, Knots Landing, where it referenced Bobby's death in the story line.
o There's even more to this: Producer Leonard Katzman was kicked off the show at the same time Patrick Duffy left, only to be brought back at the cast's demand. Katzman hated a lot of stuff that was done to the show in his absence (primarily making the women much stronger characters), and so thought of a way make it never have happened.

# And in a particularly, particularly egregious case, the last episode of St Elsewhere reveals that the entire series has taken place in the mind of an autistic child.
* In fact, if you accept that crossovers between shows imply that they occupy the same fictional universe, an argument can be made that no fewer than 282 shows (external site) were figments of Tommy Westphall's imagination, including Buffy The Vampire Slayer. The aforementioned site seems to have a very low threshold for calling a show a cross-over, however; it includes minor shout outs as linkage. Another crossover database site (external site again) gives a more conservative estimate, setting fewer than a hundred shows within young Tommy's mind.
* This scene is parodied in the heatwave episode of News Radio, where at the end of the episode, everything is revealed to be a dream of an autistic Jimmy James in a direct replay of the St Elsewhere scene, down to Dave Nelson dressed as a construction worker. Fortunately, there's no connection to the actual St. Elsewhere, or we'd have to face a dreaming paradox dilemma.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

I said feasibly. I'm well aware of both of those, and both examples were followed by something saying why it just doesn't work.

[Jintor]

Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with you bro.

[Ithekro]

It has been used for comedy successfully once...Newhart ended with it being a dream of Bob Newhart's character from the previous show he'd starred in many year earlier. It actually came off as a rather funny ending since they went way over the top in that last episode.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

It has been used for comedy successfully once...Newhart ended with it being a dream of Bob Newhart's character from the previous show he'd starred in many year earlier. It actually came off as a rather funny ending since they went way over the top in that last episode.

That'd be the exception. As you said, they played it as a joke

[AVPlaya]

Nonono... no Dream ending. That's a huge cop-out. I like my theory because the entire show is about special people, yet the main character is the only one who goes out of his way to show how ordinary he is. Yet everything happens is right up his alley, every girl and boy (and butler) is to his personal taste. Even Tsuruya-san, a de-facto member of SOS-dan, is mean, green, fighting machine. His world is just a little bit too perfect.

He's just Kyon, a quasi-nerd without a real name or personality, yet everyone loves him.. Haruhi loves him and listens only to him (who's REALLY in control of the universe now?) ; Mikuru also loves him and has secrets she would only share with him; Yuki protects him and basically does his every bidding, Koizumi is like his gay side-kick, explaining shit to Kyon when he's screaming about how weird everything to hide his glee inside. Everyone else appears just in time to make his life more interesting. If there's a major character in the show, you can bet Kyon-sama find him or her interesting.

Yeah, I wanna be Kyon too.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Kyon went insane three years prior to the beginning of the story and everything is happening in his mind while he's locked in a mental institution. Mikuru, Koizumi and Nagato came from his desires to meet supernatural beings, and Haruhi is the result of him desperately seeking someone who shares his beliefs.

There. Now quit saying he's god or whatever.

This theory is completely thrown into a loop when you realized that Tsuruya doesn't fit into it.

In fact, I even dare to theorize that Tsuruya's entire purpose in the plot is to disprove the "this is all a dream" theory. She is a major character who has a life outside of SOS-dan, and not even Kyon know what she is up to. Tsuruya simply cannot exist in a dream world where every person is created by the dreamer.

[ijuinkun]

Originally Posted by Jintor

Personally I like the "Kyon as god" theory, but not in that manner. I think it goes that, because of his basically lazy personality, he's bestowed his powers upon Haruhi, and everything is thus - to him - unexpected.

Another take on this would draw on Koizumi's description of why Haruhi doesn't notice the paranormal stuff that is right under her nose--her weirdness censor won't let her admit to it. On a similar train of thought, if Kyon is the real god here, then his mind won't let him admit it, so he externalizes the power by making Haruhi into his avatar--she would embody all of the stuff that his mind was repressing.

[Tyabann]

Or, you know, -maybe- Haruhi and Kyon are just similar people? Which is one of the points of the series?

Kyon doesn't have to be God. He's interesting BECAUSE he's an ordinary human who gets into all these messes and manages to come out mostly unscathed.

And everything revolves around Kyon because Kyon is the protagonist. Not necessarily because he's God...

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Or, you know, -maybe- Haruhi and Kyon are just similar people? Which is one of the points of the series?

Kyon doesn't have to be God. He's interesting BECAUSE he's an ordinary human who gets into all these messes and manages to come out mostly unscathed.

And everything revolves around Kyon because Kyon is the protagonist. Not necessarily because he's God...

Thank you.

I can say with total honesty that it never occurred to me that Kyon was anything but what he says he is. Which is why I am floored every time this theory is dragged out of the attic to stagger around like a drunken zombie.

Seriously, plot twists are one thing, but it helps if they're good ones.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

This theory is completely thrown into a loop when you realized that Tsuruya doesn't fit into it.

I don't recall ever saying it was a serious theory

[Jintor]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And everything revolves around Kyon because Kyon is the protagonist. Not necessarily because he's God...

Or possibly he's God, wishing he was a protagonist... D:

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Don't most people have bisexual tendencies to at least some degree?

Hell, I'm openly bisexual. I like women and lesbians. ^_^

Originally Posted by AVPlaya

Even Tsuruya-san, a de-facto member of SOS-dan, is mean, green, fighting machine.

Tsuruya-san as a martial arts master is a Haruhi-chan thing. She has yet to show any martial arts prowess in the novels as of yet, although, since she is from a very traditional family (and has to have some way of meting out justice on her nightly costumed forays to rid Gotham Japan of criminal scum), and there are some subtle hints as to exactly what kind of family that is that she'll soon be head of (expect to see mention of a giant tattoo on her back should Kyon ever see her shirtless), she probably has some sort of training in some art.

Originally Posted by Tabasco

Thank you.

I can say with total honesty that it never occurred to me that Kyon was anything but what he says he is. Which is why I am floored every time this theory is dragged out of the attic to stagger around like a drunken zombie.

Nnnnnnnn... Beeeeeeeeeeeeerrrr... Kyoooooooonnnnn... Braaaaaaaaains...

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Hell, I'm openly bisexual. I like women and lesbians. ^_^

You're funny, you know that? You're funny.

expect to see mention of a giant tattoo on her back should Kyon ever see her shirtless

. . . Why would Kyon be staring at her back if she didn't have a shirt on?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

(expect to see mention of a giant tattoo on her back should Kyon ever see her shirtless)

As said above "Kyon would be looking at her back?"

But you're suggesting that she's Mion Sonozaki, which I find amusing.

Well, they DO both have green hair and look great in a ponytail...

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Nnnnnnnn... Beeeeeeeeeeeeerrrr... Kyoooooooonnnnn... Braaaaaaaaains...

I see this as more the mumblings of a Haruhi zombie for some reason.