AnimeSuki Forums

Sugetsu · 2012-02-11, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by flying ^

your ilk gotta stop using 'race card' liberally

it's been hurled so much it's losing its grip... especially on those who wear 'teflon suits'

oh and and MSNBC's the worst offender lately when it comes to employing cards like that

It is not a matter of using race as an excuse to denigrate a politician, it is a matter of integrity, I somewhat liked Ron Paul, but this just destroys any shred of sympathy I had for the guy.

Whats worse is that the whole of the GOP seems to be shameless when they invite white supremacists to participle in political events. Ever since Obama took office these people have been on crusade of sorts on different issues and principles, such as immigration, abortion, homosexuality, corporations, voting rights, taxes, regulations and much more. Of course they started talking about those issues long before the election, but after it, they seem to have become "enraged".

The fact that a lot of people still embrace them speaks poorly of their capabilities of critical thinking and awareness levels. It also gives you a very clear picture of just how much influence the corporate media has over population.

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 16:29

Well for a convention....for conservatives....what would you expect to see?

It is not the GOP convention...it is a conservatives convention which the GOP is a part of. Not the whole of.

It is like going to a Gamers covention and finding out they are showing anime in one of the rooms. Well some gamers are anime fans, and some games are based on anime. It isn't all Dungeons and Dragan, Pokemon, or Warhammer 40,000. They have LARPing going on in places. Table top gaming, painting courses, card games, discussions on historical periods related to gaming....hell someone probably even have a sex game going on late at night in a hotel room. It covers about everything, and not everyone there agrees with everyone else....but it is all "gaming related"

Just like everything is "conservative related" as the CPAC.

Sugetsu · 2012-02-11, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Well for a convention....for conservatives....what would you expect to see?

So being conservative should be the same as being an extremists? What they are doing does not make political sense. Good thing they own the media that way they don't have to make a big issue out of it, if at all. Of course the media-driven public will downplay the issue as well.

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 17:02

With everything there is a range. You have the GOProud conservative gay Republicans, and you have the racists other other end of the spectrum. They are still conservative in their view points. How they go about it is a different issue.

They certainly are not liberal or socialist in their ideology.

One thing that should be noted is that extremes do not work out well politically in this country because of how people are elected. It might fuction in single districts....it might even take a single state...but it cannot take the whole nation.

The country and its citizens views are just too diverse for that to happen without a serious incident happens to provoke a change. Something worse than 9/11. Being attacked is one thing....being invaded is something else. Something no one has seriously dared in almost two centuries. That or an real nuclear attack, as that would be a scaled up version of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Or proof of aliens...or something that can threaten the entire planet with extinction in one go. Those type of things can change options quickly. The regular ways politics happens now? Not enough. The country is polorized, but only between the voters that vote. And it seems more like a sporting event type deal rather than real politics (it is all about my "Team" winning), as I've noticed that most people use words, but fail to notice both sides usually have the same policies...just using different names. There are elements that want to be heard, but third parties have a very hard time getting going on the national level.

DonQuigleone · 2012-02-11, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

It is not a matter of using race as an excuse to denigrate a politician, it is a matter of integrity, I somewhat liked Ron Paul, but this just destroys any shred of sympathy I had for the guy.

To be fair, it's anonymous. By their nature, you don't know who they are. And you have no idea if they have a source either.

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 17:31

I've found that some groups that are considered racist, are reactionary racist, rather than actually racist. Some people have no problem with people of any race working, holding positions of authority, being their friends, or whatever. Well at least as long as the other races are conforming to American lifestyles (there are issues with foreign cultures that disturb conservative-nationalist ideals). What they have a problem with the notion that "they own the other races something". Their problems are usually related to what they considered special treatment regulations and the like ("affermative action" for example). Or a reaction to the attitudes of some other races, or the race card being played too often. It rubs them the wrong way too often so they become reactionary. Or if the subject matter is women, the lowering of standard so that woman can get certain jobs. Sometimes to the danger of others.

For example. In the Fire Department you have to be able to carry a hose from the truck and be able to attach it to a water source to fight the fires. Those hoses are heavy. There was a requirement that you needed to be able to carry the hose to get the job (I think there was also the requirement to carry a full grown man out of a building). Well some men and some women cannot do those things. But to be "politically correct" and fill quota, some fire departments have lowered their standards. But the hoses still weigh the same (if they came up with a lighter hose this would not be as much of an issue, though it might also be a problem with holding ones ground while holding the hose pumping out huge amounts of water under pressure). So now if this person, man or woman, that got in by the politically correct policies, goes to fight a fire, they cannot carry the hose by themselves. They cannot carry a injured full grown man out of a burning house. That potentially endangers lives, as well and reduces the effectiveness of the unit by either having someone else fill that role, or requiring two people to do the job that is suppose to be for one.

Ledgem · 2012-02-11, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

And the news keep getting better and better:

“Anonymous” Reveals Close Ties Between Ron Paul And Neo-Nazis

I have just lost the little faith I had in him. God help us if Obama loses the election... I truly hope it doesn't happen.

It's old as in it was discussed here previously. I'll copy and paste my reply to that post:

So now even regular people have learned to take a play from large media outlets, make sweeping remarks and jumping to conclusions.

What Anonymous claims is that Ron Paul communicated with a racist group's board of directors and met with the group's members before. They also mention that the group's board of directors was a Ron Paul campaign organizer. Assuming that Anonymous isn't lying about any of that, how do you make the jump to saying that Ron Paul is racist, himself? He was communicating with a campaign organizer who likely organized other people to meet with and/or speak to Ron Paul in order to garner support. It does not mean that Paul supported their racist views. Unless Anonymous can provide some sort of proof (which I'll still be skeptical of, given the nature of Anonymous), this does not mean that Ron Paul is racist.

As a reminder, this is very similar to a tactic that was used during the 2008 presidential elections. Remember how Sarah Palin frequently brought up about how Obama was "palling around with terrorists" due top his associations with campaign supporter William Ayers, a former member of the American terrorist group "Weathermen"? While they stopped short of calling Obama a terrorist, himself, that and a lot of other rhetoric at the time was clearly intended to paint Obama as a terrorist, or at least, someone who supported the destruction of America. It was one of the most idiotic charges that could have possibly been made, but people bought it.

Don't be one of those people. THINK. Be skeptical of everything, demand the evidence, and don't buy anyone else's interpretation of the facts - make your own.

Sugetsu · 2012-02-11, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

It's old as in it was discussed here previously. I'll copy and paste my reply to that post:

So now even regular people have learned to take a play from large media outlets, make sweeping remarks and jumping to conclusions.

What Anonymous claims is that Ron Paul communicated with a racist group's board of directors and met with the group's members before. They also mention that the group's board of directors was a Ron Paul campaign organizer. Assuming that Anonymous isn't lying about any of that, how do you make the jump to saying that Ron Paul is racist, himself? He was communicating with a campaign organizer who likely organized other people to meet with and/or speak to Ron Paul in order to garner support. It does not mean that Paul supported their racist views. Unless Anonymous can provide some sort of proof (which I'll still be skeptical of, given the nature of Anonymous), this does not mean that Ron Paul is racist.

As a reminder, this is very similar to a tactic that was used during the 2008 presidential elections. Remember how Sarah Palin frequently brought up about how Obama was "palling around with terrorists" due top his associations with campaign supporter William Ayers, a former member of the American terrorist group "Weathermen"? While they stopped short of calling Obama a terrorist, himself, that and a lot of other rhetoric at the time was clearly intended to paint Obama as a terrorist, or at least, someone who supported the destruction of America. It was one of the most idiotic charges that could have possibly been made, but people bought it.

Don't be one of those people. THINK. Be skeptical of everything, demand the evidence, and don't buy anyone else's interpretation of the facts - make your own.

Actually, the hacker group WAS supporting Ron Paul before, they were for a while. That all changed when they discovered that he is indeed a racist as the left media has been claiming.

Here is a small sample of their past support:

Besides, why would they pick on Paul specifically when he is by far the most liked candidate? Heck even I liked him, but not anymore.

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 21:51

Considering he's not won in any state so far I doubt you have much to worry about.

Also you were worried about CPAC. Consider that in the last six years the winner of the straw poll has been either Mitt Romney or Ron Paul. With Romney winning 2 out of 3 over Paul (Romney won this year keeping Paul from getting three straight wins).

Sugetsu · 2012-02-11, 22:02

I am not worried about Paul winning or CPAC. What I am concerned about is the state of GOP. They are a threat to the nation and the world, and I am not exaggerating here. I don't think I need to elaborate as to why this is so, but if you want me to I could.

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 22:09

If you are worried about what I think you are worried about, well...the positive note: the world will be closer to being willing to follow the Venus Project...as it will take a world shattering catatrophy to change than many minds for something so radically different than things are today.

(How is that...thinking positive about the "end of the world" as we know it?)

Ledgem · 2012-02-11, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

Actually, the hacker group WAS supporting Ron Paul before, they were for a while. That all changed when they discovered that he is indeed a racist as the left media has been claiming.

Stop saying that he's a racist without better proof. I've already pointed out how the link requires a big jump over baseless territory to get from one point to the other.

Quote:

Besides, why would they pick on Paul specifically when he is by far the most liked candidate? Heck even I liked him, but not anymore.

For the exact same reason why you took their article and reposted it here. Someone, whether a Paul supporter or not, discovered the facts and then drew a conclusion that because Paul gave some people with racist views attention, he must himself be racist. It's poor reasoning, but what happens next is that people hear the initial facts, hear the person's conclusion, and buy it outright. Of course, if it were true, then it would be a bad thing that everyone should be made aware of, right? And so Anonymous made a big deal about it, and you (and Hooves before you) spread the word.

As I said, think for yourself. Look at the facts, and then tell me how it reveals anything about Ron Paul's personal views on race.

Xagzan · 2012-02-11, 23:08

Paul's association with racists is hardly my largest issue with him, anyway. It's more that even though I agree with him on some main concepts, like ceasing all the ridiculous wars, break up the fellatory relationship between politicians and their corporate masters, and keeping the government out of people's bedrooms - even on those concepts, it's his solutions I find atrocious, whether for being simply antiquated by a couple of centuries, or just being flat out unpalatable to me (I mean really, the federal government intruding into people's sex lives is wrong, but discrimination by state governments is a-ok?).

But yes, that racist thing is largely a non-issue at this point, unless there is evidence he shares their views. Otherwise it's just like Obama and that Bill Ayers nonsense.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-02-11, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

I am not worried about Paul winning or CPAC. What I am concerned about is the state of GOP. They are a threat to the nation and the world, and I am not exaggerating here. I don't think I need to elaborate as to why this is so, but if you want me to I could.

Well, what are you getting on Ron Paul's case for then? He is clearly the lesser evil of the GOP candidates. Hell, I am pretty sure there is a good chance some of the other candidates are racist. The GOP has never had any problem catering to white supremacist voters. I support Ron Paul not because of what he stands for, but how he is the only guy willing to argue his position logically. Even though he is nothing like me on issues, he is a logical man who doesn't given me a headache whenever I hear him speak... Unlike his competitors on the campaign trial.

Frenchie · 2012-02-12, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Well, what are you getting on Ron Paul's case for then? He is clearly the lesser evil of the GOP candidates. Hell, I am pretty sure there is a good chance some of the other candidates are racist. The GOP has never had any problem catering to white supremacist voters. I support Ron Paul not because of what he stands for, but how he is the only guy willing to argue his position logically. Even though he is nothing like me on issues, he is a logical man who doesn't given me a headache whenever I hear him speak... Unlike his competitors on the campaign trial.

QFT. I disagree with many of Ron Paul's ideas on government, not being a Libertarian myself, but at least the man sticks to his morals. He isn't a flip-flopper like the rest of the GOP field and doesn't systematically jump on the bandwagon.

I could rant about Mitt and Newt all day long.

**Solace** · 2012-02-12, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xagzan

even on those concepts, it's his solutions I find atrocious

This is how I feel too. I like Ron Paul, but not because of his solutions. I like him because he isn't afraid to speak his mind, to do so logically, and sincerely. I like him because he isn't afraid to say what others are thinking, even if it means he won't be popular for it. That's integrity, regardless of your views on his personal beliefs. He's still not remotely electable though.

Then again, neither are the others. This election is one big dog and pony show. Seriously. I cringe every time I hear how much these campaigns are costing, and how much of that money would be better spent directly helping people instead of propping up idiots. Idiots, btw, who have more money than most of us will ever see in our entire lives.

solomon · 2012-02-12, 10:09

Exactly both politicans worry about out of control public spending, what about all this wasteful ELECTION spending........and the corporate media won't say much about it cause they get FAT off it.

ganbaru · 2012-02-12, 10:17

Bishops Reject White House’s New Plan on Contraception
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us...-proposal.html
The proposed compromise seemed good to me but now they what even more.

solomon · 2012-02-12, 10:22

Too bad, move on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us...-on-it.html?hp

This is an interesting article that shows the countries complex attitudes about welfare and aid programs, specifically Medicare the one that is contributing most to the deficit.

Even people who depend on such programs say "They don't want the government help". Partly it's due to pride, partly it's due to perception of the growing deficit and it's affect on growing generations. It's a great piece that puts conservative arguments into perspective.

It's hard to say. On the one hand, Medicare is the largest so it has to be restructured, not to mention other cuts that could be made (looks somewhere at the DOD).

Then again, the country has been on a general anti-tax binge for odd on 20 years now, some how I just don't think we are being realistic in the idea we can just CUT CUT CUT.

SaintessHeart · 2012-02-12, 11:49

Spoiler for Something I found on 9gag:

2012-02-11, 16:29	Link #2542
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	Well for a convention....for conservatives....what would you expect to see? It is not the GOP convention...it is a conservatives convention which the GOP is a part of. Not the whole of. It is like going to a Gamers covention and finding out they are showing anime in one of the rooms. Well some gamers are anime fans, and some games are based on anime. It isn't all Dungeons and Dragan, Pokemon, or Warhammer 40,000. They have LARPing going on in places. Table top gaming, painting courses, card games, discussions on historical periods related to gaming....hell someone probably even have a sex game going on late at night in a hotel room. It covers about everything, and not everyone there agrees with everyone else....but it is all "gaming related" Just like everything is "conservative related" as the CPAC. __________________

2012-02-11, 17:02	Link #2544
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	With everything there is a range. You have the GOProud conservative gay Republicans, and you have the racists other other end of the spectrum. They are still conservative in their view points. How they go about it is a different issue. They certainly are not liberal or socialist in their ideology. One thing that should be noted is that extremes do not work out well politically in this country because of how people are elected. It might fuction in single districts....it might even take a single state...but it cannot take the whole nation. The country and its citizens views are just too diverse for that to happen without a serious incident happens to provoke a change. Something worse than 9/11. Being attacked is one thing....being invaded is something else. Something no one has seriously dared in almost two centuries. That or an real nuclear attack, as that would be a scaled up version of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Or proof of aliens...or something that can threaten the entire planet with extinction in one go. Those type of things can change options quickly. The regular ways politics happens now? Not enough. The country is polorized, but only between the voters that vote. And it seems more like a sporting event type deal rather than real politics (it is all about my "Team" winning), as I've noticed that most people use words, but fail to notice both sides usually have the same policies...just using different names. There are elements that want to be heard, but third parties have a very hard time getting going on the national level. __________________

2012-02-11, 17:31	Link #2546
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	I've found that some groups that are considered racist, are reactionary racist, rather than actually racist. Some people have no problem with people of any race working, holding positions of authority, being their friends, or whatever. Well at least as long as the other races are conforming to American lifestyles (there are issues with foreign cultures that disturb conservative-nationalist ideals). What they have a problem with the notion that "they own the other races something". Their problems are usually related to what they considered special treatment regulations and the like ("affermative action" for example). Or a reaction to the attitudes of some other races, or the race card being played too often. It rubs them the wrong way too often so they become reactionary. Or if the subject matter is women, the lowering of standard so that woman can get certain jobs. Sometimes to the danger of others. For example. In the Fire Department you have to be able to carry a hose from the truck and be able to attach it to a water source to fight the fires. Those hoses are heavy. There was a requirement that you needed to be able to carry the hose to get the job (I think there was also the requirement to carry a full grown man out of a building). Well some men and some women cannot do those things. But to be "politically correct" and fill quota, some fire departments have lowered their standards. But the hoses still weigh the same (if they came up with a lighter hose this would not be as much of an issue, though it might also be a problem with holding ones ground while holding the hose pumping out huge amounts of water under pressure). So now if this person, man or woman, that got in by the politically correct policies, goes to fight a fire, they cannot carry the hose by themselves. They cannot carry a injured full grown man out of a burning house. That potentially endangers lives, as well and reduces the effectiveness of the unit by either having someone else fill that role, or requiring two people to do the job that is suppose to be for one. __________________

2012-02-11, 21:51	Link #2549
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	Considering he's not won in any state so far I doubt you have much to worry about. Also you were worried about CPAC. Consider that in the last six years the winner of the straw poll has been either Mitt Romney or Ron Paul. With Romney winning 2 out of 3 over Paul (Romney won this year keeping Paul from getting three straight wins). __________________

2012-02-11, 22:02	Link #2550
Sugetsu Kurumada's lost child Join Date: Nov 2003	I am not worried about Paul winning or CPAC. What I am concerned about is the state of GOP. They are a threat to the nation and the world, and I am not exaggerating here. I don't think I need to elaborate as to why this is so, but if you want me to I could. __________________ "If you educate people, you cannot control them." ~Jacque Fresco

2012-02-11, 22:09	Link #2551
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 47	If you are worried about what I think you are worried about, well...the positive note: the world will be closer to being willing to follow the Venus Project...as it will take a world shattering catatrophy to change than many minds for something so radically different than things are today. (How is that...thinking positive about the "end of the world" as we know it?) __________________

2012-02-11, 23:08	Link #2553
Xagzan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Paul's association with racists is hardly my largest issue with him, anyway. It's more that even though I agree with him on some main concepts, like ceasing all the ridiculous wars, break up the fellatory relationship between politicians and their corporate masters, and keeping the government out of people's bedrooms - even on those concepts, it's his solutions I find atrocious, whether for being simply antiquated by a couple of centuries, or just being flat out unpalatable to me (I mean really, the federal government intruding into people's sex lives is wrong, but discrimination by state governments is a-ok?). But yes, that racist thing is largely a non-issue at this point, unless there is evidence he shares their views. Otherwise it's just like Obama and that Bill Ayers nonsense.

2012-02-12, 10:09	Link #2557
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Exactly both politicans worry about out of control public spending, what about all this wasteful ELECTION spending........and the corporate media won't say much about it cause they get FAT off it.

2012-02-12, 10:17	Link #2558
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	Bishops Reject White House’s New Plan on Contraception http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us...-proposal.html The proposed compromise seemed good to me but now they what even more. __________________

2012-02-12, 10:22	Link #2559
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Too bad, move on. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us...-on-it.html?hp This is an interesting article that shows the countries complex attitudes about welfare and aid programs, specifically Medicare the one that is contributing most to the deficit. Even people who depend on such programs say "They don't want the government help". Partly it's due to pride, partly it's due to perception of the growing deficit and it's affect on growing generations. It's a great piece that puts conservative arguments into perspective. It's hard to say. On the one hand, Medicare is the largest so it has to be restructured, not to mention other cuts that could be made (looks somewhere at the DOD). Then again, the country has been on a general anti-tax binge for odd on 20 years now, some how I just don't think we are being realistic in the idea we can just CUT CUT CUT.

2012-02-12, 11:49	Link #2560
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	Spoiler for Something I found on 9gag: __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.