Archived Index LN Future Volume Speculation/Theories

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I also can't understand why she can't use magic. Its like Kamachi forgets to explain it or explore it more. The restraint or the necklace? (its a necklace right? I can't remember much about the johnpen mode) the use of it and how she can't refine her life force to turn into mana. Because list time I read. Anything beside espers can use magic by refining the life force of a human being. And Index CAN use magic in John Pen mode.

Then why she can't use it when she's not in that mode?

I don't remember whether this was outright stated or just implied, probably the latter, but from the way I understand it, John's Pen keeps a monopoly on Index's mana so that she can't use it of her own will, even when the defense mode is inactive. It's not that she can't make any, but that any mana she makes goes straight to the Pen. This is a good thing, since without it the grimoires would destroy her mind 103000 times over. Just one Original can leave a human in a catatonic state, foaming from the mouth, so we can be assured this wouldn't be pretty.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

NT. 3 - She would have gotten kidnapped again by gremlin because of her grimoires.

Her potential would have been realized if Kamachi had made her go back with Styil and Kanzaki back to Necesarius but that has it's problems too I suppose. I won't say she has more potential than Mikoto because every character has potential to be even better in this series (ex. Hamazura). I feel she should be demoted to secondary character like Last Order is important to the plot but not the main focus of the story.

Gremlin don't need her for her library of grimoire if they had a magic god on their side.

And her potential will be wasted if she went back to necassarius plus if you can't even see why she was placed together with Touma then I don't know what.

From the very first volume. Index was introduced as a partner and an anchor for Touma. I have already said that. He is his reason for moving on and his reason to fight and even got angry. Index has been a center of Touma's life after memory lost that she become a crutch to him that if she is gone. Touma would go hunt who take her. Like what happen to Fiamma.

And if that doesn't sound fishy to you then I don't know if we are reading the same story.

Because really. She is like last order to accelerator.

Last order is usually used to manipulate and motivate accelerator. Take her away and you got a rampaging level 5.

If you're forgetting something. Then I remind you that Necessarius and Academy city are only allies with BENEFITS on each other. Laura is pretty much just waiting for a good time to stab Aleister and she already got her ace INSIDE the city. And she STILL GOT HER OWN REMOTE of Index.

All the chest piece are there.

A magical library that has a potential to become a majin and inside the enemy fortress.

Comparing her potential to Mikoto is comparing like Shiage to Accelerator.

BOTH are important. But in overall PLOT. Accelerator has more used than Shaige.

Mikoto power wise and usefulness is in the middle rank of tamni. She is pretty versatile but against the monsters of magic side. She is still nothing. You will be needing a magical library to unlock the weakness of their magic to even beat them. And don't say IB and Touma alone would be enough. The current Touma had gone through lots of things so maybe he can stand on his own but he still needs help.

Still this debate is stupid if you ask me.

I don't have anything against index and mikoto because they aren't my favorite characters but saying index is not important and should just a secondary character then I would say the same for mikoto because that is just plain bias.

If you want my bias answer. Misaki should just win Touma or Othinus should just take Touma away and go through another phase with Will-tan

that's bias.

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

I don't remember whether this was outright stated or just implied, probably the latter, but from the way I understand it, John's Pen keeps a monopoly on Index's mana so that she can't use it of her own will, even when the defense mode is inactive. It's not that she can't make any, but that any mana she makes goes straight to the Pen. This is a good thing, since without it the grimoires would destroy her mind 103000 times over. Just one Original can leave a human in a catatonic state, foaming from the mouth, so we can be assured this wouldn't be pretty.

Its indeed not been stated. Index said in vol 1 that she can't refine her life force into mana so she is a perfect candidate to become a magical library. But that already contradicts to what she said that everyone, aside from esper can use magic. Then at the end of the volume. SHE CAN USED MAGIC but just sealed away.

Isn't it already destroyed by Touma in the end of vol 1? that is why I was confuse on how John Pen mode was activated in the end of vol 18 and the remote too. Though I should not be surprise that the church lie. She is indeed the strongest weapon of magic side. But the thing that irritates me is WHY INDEX DOESN'T QUESTION IT!!!! or why kamachi just leave it be. Its like a huge plot hole for me and I can't remember it being explained or expanded. WHY?

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Gremlin don't need her for her library of grimoire if they had a magic god on their side.

And her potential will be wasted if she went back to necassarius plus if you can't even see why she was placed together with Touma then I don't know what.

From the very first volume. Index was introduced as a partner and an anchor for Touma. I have already said that. He is his reason for moving on and his reason to fight and even got angry. Index has been a center of Touma's life after memory lost that she become a crutch to him that if she is gone. Touma would go hunt who take her. Like what happen to Fiamma.

And if that doesn't sound fishy to you then I don't know if we are reading the same story.

Because really. She is like last order to accelerator.

Last order is usually used to manipulate and motivate accelerator. Take her away and you got a rampaging level 5.

If you're forgetting something. Then I remind you that Necessarius and Academy city are only allies with BENEFITS on each other. Laura is pretty much just waiting for a good time to stab Aleister and she already got her ace INSIDE the city. And she STILL GOT HER OWN REMOTE of Index.

All the chest piece are there.

A magical library that has a potential to become a majin and inside the enemy fortress.

Comparing her potential to Mikoto is comparing like Shiage to Accelerator.

BOTH are important. But in overall PLOT. Accelerator has more used than Shaige.

Mikoto power wise and usefulness is in the middle rank of tamni. She is pretty versatile but against the monsters of magic side. She is still nothing. You will be needing a magical library to unlock the weakness of their magic to even beat them. And don't say IB and Touma alone would be enough. The current Touma had gone through lots of things so maybe he can stand on his own but he still needs help.

Still this debate is stupid if you ask me.

I don't have anything against index and mikoto because they aren't my favorite characters but saying index is not important and should just a secondary character then I would say the same for mikoto because that is just plain bias.

If you want my bias answer. Misaki should just win Touma or Othinus should just take Touma away and go through another phase with Will-tan

that's bias.





Its indeed not been stated. Index said in vol 1 that she can't refine her life force into mana so she is a perfect candidate to become a magical library. But that already contradicts to what she said that everyone, aside from esper can use magic. Then at the end of the volume. SHE CAN USED MAGIC but just sealed away.

Isn't it already destroyed by Touma in the end of vol 1? that is why I was confuse on how John Pen mode was activated in the end of vol 18 and the remote too. Though I should not be surprise that the church lie. She is indeed the strongest weapon of magic side. But the thing that irritates me is WHY INDEX DOESN'T QUESTION IT!!!! or why kamachi just leave it be. Its like a huge plot hole for me and I can't remember it being explained or expanded. WHY?

Obviously you didn't read my post, I stated the she is as important as LO because they both serve almost the same goal. I know that she is Toumas last link to prem-memory loss Touma, that he is protecting her because the "other" Touma protected her, I know that, I said that there was another problem with her being sent to Necessarius didn't I? Which implies the remote Laura has. I know this stuff, don't try and act all high and mighty when explaining stuff to me, if my opinions bother you than it's not my problem.

You can compare both of their potentials, both are important to their respective sides, like I said every character in TAMNI has a lot if potential, yes you can compare them, just because you don't want to doesn't make it so. Unlike you I see potential in every character, yes I have my favorites, so what? It's not like I'm completly disregarding Index, all I'm saying is that to me (myself, I) she feels like she doesn't have anything else to add to the story apart from giving info to Touma and the need to free her from the remote. That's my personal opinion.

Of this debate is stupid than why are you contributing to it? It's not like I'm stating my opinions as fact, you just want me to conform to your way of thinking, I have my opinions you have yours, deal with it.

p.s. As much as I like Misaki (and I like her a lot), I din't see what makes her si special to everyone else. She's an amzing troll and if her trolling helps Mikoto be more proactive against Touma than, I'm totally fine with her appaering more.

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for @allfictions:

It's because LO is not actually useless, or you have a different definition of "useless" than everyone else (which I suspect you do, seeing as you qualify a secondary character as "side character").

She is the reason of Accel's redemption as well as his drive to change, I would say she is pretty big as far as importance go.

?? havent i wrote that she is a moral pet for him??
she simply does her role as moral pet for accel and therefore she does not need a power up or character development....
seems like i have

Touma needs a magic exposition, IB is not invicible, nor is even close to other more powerful No Sell Anti Magic out there. Many magics are more complicated than "spellaimed at you directly". What about spells that regenerate, items with an exterior source, magic actually more complex than it appears, etc.

Anti Magic without the appropriate knowledge on how you have to use it is useless.

still i can easily imagine that accel would need her help more often than touma, since his ability is the perfect counter against every supernatural force it is only uselss agaisnt sorinias lashy magic where he needs to find the core, against other stuff it is OP....

what i wanted to know is if im the only one who can imagine that accel would need to rely on her more often than touma ever did if it comes to magic spells since (they are together with unknown laws/vector values ) the only way to hit and kill him....

Spoiler for @tsunade:

ugh... I feel like I will had a headache >_>

The only thing I agree with this one is Index is a wasted character.

that is what i say, the reasons i have listed was th ereason why i wrote:
i know that this sounded like flaming but in reality im sad about so much wasted "Index"

But saying all she had done is side character job?

really?

before that i need to say that a MC is for me the only person who could solve this problem, that means without him the story wouldnt work...
a side carachter can be replaced or easily vanished because a few things in a story are different, like Index's heal song for LO, easily replaced by a "random" person who managed to obtain the data beforhand or a 0815 magician specialised in heal spells...

Shall we list them all. The time where she got kidnapped are thrice from what I remember. Vol 2, vol 5 and WWIII arc. Other than that she is useful.
Heck she is more useful than Touma when dealing with magic side. Sure Touma can negate things but he doesn't know the eccentricities or mechanics behind the magic side spell then his doom. He needs knowledge and in the beginning of the story. His entirely dependent on IB for protection and knowledge from Index to counter the opponent or at least find weakness.

?? i say before this: i havent read every volume, i simply havent because after watchign the anime i knew what would happen therefore it was a bit boring....

so than (no offense even if it sounds rude): what?? where was he screwed without Index?? -sure in Vol. 1 but than??
-not in Vol.2 - Vol.4,
-in Vol.5 he could also figure this out by himself or his sudden luck/misfortune saved him, -Vol.6-10 im not sure but was she even doing something?? OHHHH yeah true without their (convenient) discussion earlier he would be buried under earth..
-Vol.11-16 i doubt she helped really much, Touma hold himself pretty good on his own without her help, of course she stopped the virus but like before it was a side carachter job...
- Vol. 17-18 i dont know if this she really hlped with her knowledge, it is a long time since i readed them the last time, lets say she have done it...
- Vol. 20-22 no,
- whole NT series was she a side carachter...

vol 1 she become the pillar for touma to move on. When touma lost his memories he become an anchor for him.

yeah her introduction...

vol 2 she got kidnap by the alchemist

ok

vol 3 nothing but funny parts and her trying to learn more about esper abilities.
vol 4 angel fall. I also don't remember Kaori and Tsuchimikado asking her help here. Though its already the problem of her swapping bodies.

"...."

vol 5. Helped providing knowledge against Eztali. Got napped by Ouma but even without Touma butting it. Ouma would die for trying to use the grimoire. Big deal. His dead with ruptured brains.
vol 6 she delay a HUGE golem using only spell intercept

like i wrote, side carachter, in the end she was the one who needed to be saved (again)

vol 7 is book of laws. look at sheol of fear or whatever its called (can't remember much)
vol 8 is science side

side carachter, everyone else would help better, in the end they only found out that orsolas method was wrong which didnt helped them a single bit...

vol 9 and 10 is kamachi/toume being idiot and not using a phone to call her
vol 11 knowledge for the spell queen of adriatic
vol 12 nothing happens. science side beginning
vol 13 rescues last order and give idea to accelerator for the use of song for magic. Knowledge of artificial angel/angel

like i wrote above, easily expandable, she can be replaced by other chars who appear and vanish, this is how i define "side character" therefore she is one...

vol 14 retard waste of her character again
vol 15 science side
vol 16 its a saint and no one again consults her. such a library she is. Like the current times where library is being replaced by use of internet.
vol 17 and 18 knowledge of magical artifacts and got used by fiamma in the end.
vol 19 science side
vol 20-22 turn into murdering automaton doll by Fiamma.

agree to 100%

For most part I will agree that she doesn't help much but I blame that to Kamachi for not using her to her full potential.

-_- i still believe he changes that but with every passing volume my hope gets smaller and smaller :'(

I would like you to rethink what you wrote.

So far she is a big part of Touma's mental support, she represents his fears of being left behind alone(this was repeated in nt8), she is his drive for WWIII and she is the reason why Touma would show his darkest and zealous side.

If you didn't get it what I mean is that both Index and Touma have a notable intertwinwd mental dependance for each other, if one of them shows an odd behavior even if it's a little bit the other will notice it.

i havent said anythign against that *sigh*
let me rewrite myself:
Index was expected as MC but what we gained was a role like LO's, hence even the relationship between Touma and Index is similar, Mental Support.......incredible similar with Accelerator and Last Order realtionship :O

so: as example a MC wears the number 80 as clothes and a side char. wears 20, with Index's introduction and because her name is written inside the title the fans expected someone who can wear 80 but instead they gained someone who weard 20, Touma was someone who weared 20 but growed into someone who wears 80 therefore themajority likes him but a not so small amount dislikes Index,

she simply didnt fit the expectations, and the same happens with mikoto, she was introduced as secodnary char with 50. She growed for fans to someone who wears 80 and for others into someone who should wear 20.

this was what i actualy wanted to say, Index's has so much potential not only because John's Pen but also because of her personality, i could easily start to like her but her actions are "light" every action of touma was "heavy" (have a big impact for the story), therefore she is a side carachter for me....

[Ravagerblade]

TBH I think Touma should just move on from the *Last link to pre-memory less Touma way of thinking* as you've said.

I think we are all annoyed by a lot of the characters acting the way they do without much growth/progress. Sadly there is nothing we can do but discuss our discontent. lol

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Well of course, we are all biased in one way or another, no matter how much you say you're not, I'm biased with my favorite characters, you're biased with your favorite characters, etc.

Like I said, because I feel one way about a character it doesn't change what we read and have shown to us as cannon. I have my views you have yours, theres no need to get confrontational and defensive since I have no say in how the story develops.

Not at all, I'm a very loyal Kaori and Itsuwa fan but I do aknowledge what other characters play/mean to others like Index and it would stupid to turn away your sight just because you don't like her.

@Level Seven

Right except for the fact she can do well herself alone, isn't always the victim and is more mature when the magic conflict arises. She isn't just a bystander.

Las order plays the morality pet role but nothing else beyond that.

That is why I told you to rethink or should I say the way you conveyed it in your post.

Also isn't about expectations at all but about the popularity and the decisions from those above in Dengeki.

Between a foreigner and your typical tsundere is obvious towards who they would lean. And I'm sure you know how much Japan "loves" foreigners aka "gaijin".

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Obviously you didn't read my post, I stated the she is as important as LO because they both serve almost the same goal.

I read your post but your putting them as secondary characters

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

To me she has always felt like a secondary character forced to be a main character,

isn't the same for Mikoto?

heck, kamachi's editor like mikoto. Mikoto has lots of fans that keep asking kamachi when vol 16-18 was being released. when will mikoto shows up. kamachi just saying she will show up in the near future.

then she shows up in the in between the lines for vol 20-22.

but that didn't stop there.

she become mainstream in NT that Index hasn't even show up until NT 8.

if your asking forced into main character then your wrong. Misaka and Index aren't protagonist but heroines of index series. Biribiri is protagonist of railgun series.

And as for her role she just mostly pops up in every volume. One way or another in OT. The same as Index. Just to have screen time.

its bias to that ti Index while looking favorable to Mikoto though I won't fault you because your a mikoto fan but really... like i said its stupid and me replying to this AGAIN for YEARS is also stupid but its just that people won't stop saying index is useless.

this is not the first time it happen and it won't be the last. People will still look down at index even though she has lots of use and role in the OT. blame kamachi for her minimum time on NT -_- though I also can't blame him because there are LOTS of characters introduced and used in NT.

well whatever. don't care anymore. its just well.. funny seeing this old rusted thing being mentioned again.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Not at all, I'm a very loyal Kaori and Itsuwa fan but I do aknowledge what other characters play/mean to others like Index and it would stupid to turn away your sight just because you don't like her.

@Level Seven

Right except for the fact she can do well herself alone, isn't always the victim and is more mature when the magic conflict arises. She isn't just a bystander.

Las order plays the morality pet role but nothing else beyond that.

That is why I told you to rethink or should I say the way you conveyed it in your post.

Also isn't about expectations at all but about the popularity and the decisions from those above in Dengeki.

Between a foreigner and tour typical tsundere is obvious towards who they would choose. And I'm sure you know how much Japan loves foreigners.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I read your post but your putting them as secondary characters



isn't the same for Mikoto?

heck, kamachi's editor like mikoto. Mikoto has lots of fans that keep asking kamachi when vol 16-18 was being released. when will mikoto shows up. kamachi just saying she will show up in the near future.

then she shows up in the in between the lines for vol 20-22.

but that didn't stop there.

she become mainstream in NT that Index hasn't even show up until NT 8.

if your asking forced into main character then your wrong. Misaka and Index aren't protagonist but heroines of index series. Biribiri is protagonist of railgun series.

And as for her role she just mostly pops up in every volume. One way or another in OT. The same as Index. Just to have screen time.

its bias to that ti Index while looking favorable to Mikoto though I won't fault you because your a mikoto fan but really... like i said its stupid and me replying to this AGAIN for YEARS is also stupid but its just that people won't stop saying index is useless.

this is not the first time it happen and it won't be the last. People will still look down at index even though she has lots of use and role in the OT. blame kamachi for her minimum time on NT -_- though I also can't blame him because there are LOTS of characters introduced and used in NT.

well whatever. don't care anymore. its just well.. funny seeing this old rusted thing being mentioned again.

So tempting to continue but let's agree to disagree, you have your opinions and I have mine, we are not going to chamge each others mind because we are equally stubborn in our beliefs.

[dniv]

Let me give a few reasons Index isn't a side character.

1. She is the reason Touma started his whole journey/whatever.

2. She is the reason Kamijou found out more about Hyouka.

3. She is the reason Touma has a connection to Styl and Kanzaki.

4. In volume 22, Index's power, and the fact that Touma had lied to her were two of the main key points in that story volume.

5. In NT 9: Kamijou finally decided to kill himself because Index never lost her memories, and was with Styl and Kanzaki before all of the shit happened.

Index has always been something for Touma to protect, and she's almost always his first priority with Mikoto hastily mentioned second even though it's somewhat obvious he thinks about Index first. (BTW I like Mikoto so don't get me wrong that I prefer Index or anything).

Index pissed me off for the longest time too because of what Touma had to suffer through, but I eventually realized that she had like 130,000 grimoires in her head which has made her extremely messed up. This has made me forgive her for some of her crazy personality. I mean she has that much forbidden knowledge in her hand, and her memory kept on being erased. That would make anyone "messed up."

In Touma's case, he has Imagine Breaker and memory loss so his personality is also very "strong," but just in a way that appeals to most people.

I'm hoping we get more stuff with Index eventually, because we still haven't found out specifically about things like how she got a citizenship to AC, who her parents are (?), who her relatives are, what her red wings mean, whether she will be used against Aleister, why Aleister has been letting her stay in Academy City and hasn't even mentioned her in the context of when Touma is helping fill out one of his plans.

About Touma in the anime:

I disagree with most of you. I originally thought he was very badly done. Now I just think he was okayly portrayed. His Light Novel version was much better. His appearance in Railgun S was great, but that was really just Biribiri vision...

Though, after the secret revealed in NT 9 I've felt like the anime screwed up more than ever. From the beginning, I was able to tell that it was likely Kamijou Touma had more going to him than just a bossy monologuing persoanlity, because he was Kamachi's main character, and because Kamachi had so many other amazing well-planned out parts, that I just figured he would be different and good if I continued on. I'm not sure that's going to be the case for everyone though because they might not be that patient and give Touma the benefit of the doubt... this is why I wish the anime could have been redone or something and made longer....

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Its indeed not been stated. Index said in vol 1 that she can't refine her life force into mana so she is a perfect candidate to become a magical library. But that already contradicts to what she said that everyone, aside from esper can use magic. Then at the end of the volume. SHE CAN USED MAGIC but just sealed away.

Isn't it already destroyed by Touma in the end of vol 1? that is why I was confuse on how John Pen mode was activated in the end of vol 18 and the remote too. Though I should not be surprise that the church lie. She is indeed the strongest weapon of magic side. But the thing that irritates me is WHY INDEX DOESN'T QUESTION IT!!!! or why kamachi just leave it be. Its like a huge plot hole for me and I can't remember it being explained or expanded. WHY?

No, what Touma destroyed was not the Pen, but the Collar, which was a small part of the Pen. More specifically, it was the bit that enforced the periodic mind wipes on her by making it look like she could only store 1 year's worth of memories. Removing it did damage the Pen as a whole, as Fiamma noted when he first tried out the remote, but it did not remove it completely. If the Pen were completely removed, it would be obvious, because Index's brain would implode.

[Birdway]

Actually we don't know what will happen once Laura's control is destroyed but I doubt that will happen.
Quit the opposite, is the use of that control that is putting a heavy load on her mind because that control forces her to do what its owner wants even if it goes against Index's will.

But what do we know so far is that...

- Constantly forcing her to use magic is making her go trough a change(angelic wings) even more so since WWIII that made her adquire knowledge about archangels.

- Laura didn't repair the control when she could as Fiamma said. Why? Is it because actually Laura didn't want that?
Now the Queen doesn't has her own control thus giving the anglicans her another advantage over the total family faction.

[LevelSeven]

Right except for the fact she can do well herself alone, isn't always the victim and is more mature when the magic conflict arises. She isn't just a bystander.

she is a interesting character indeed..

Las order plays the morality pet role but nothing else beyond that.

That is why I told you to rethink or should I say the way you conveyed it in your post.

good she have done more than LO but not in the slightest enough to be a MC which i expected of her since i started to watch toaru....

Also isn't about expectations at all but about the popularity and the decisions from those above in Dengeki.

Between a foreigner and your typical tsundere is obvious towards who they would lean. And I'm sure you know how much Japan "loves" foreigners aka "gaijin".

only to clarify: i am not a mikoto-fan, for me both personality have so much potential to be enjoyable and could be so interesting but kamachi still centers everything around touma...
from the enemys over the adventures to the endings in OT it was good but i dont like the NT series, (it isnt the way the story is written ,it is the feeling i have, like as if it dropped in quality...)

i like accel, he is my favo.
but feel sorry for three chars:
1. Kakine since he is constantly the worf-char
2. Mikoto/Index which degenerated into fan-servcie chars (my opinion)
3. everyone else which is introduced and tossed to the side because Kamachi focused on Touma again (my opinion)

EDIT: @dniv

1. She is the reason Touma started his whole journey/whatever.

this is not a point, everyone can start a journey for the MC, a random popped up fight between magicians as example, and touma helps the weaker one and the same story starts without index....

2. She is the reason Kamijou found out more about Hyouka.

can be made witout Index's help, Hyouka simply falls in love/fear for touma like every single female girl in toaru.....

3. She is the reason Touma has a connection to Styl and Kanzaki.

the bond can be created because touma helped them in a fight too you know....

4. In volume 22, Index's power, and the fact that Touma had lied to her were two of the main key points in that story volume.

yeah a good story indeed, but this does not make index into a not-side-char

5. In NT 9: Kamijou finally decided to kill himself because Index never lost her memories, and was with Styl and Kanzaki before all of the shit happened.

yeah again it was a good storytelling, you know Accelerator would also kill himself after seeing that LO is happy with her 20.000 sisters...

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

No, what Touma destroyed was not the Pen, but the Collar, which was a small part of the Pen. More specifically, it was the bit that enforced the periodic mind wipes on her by making it look like she could only store 1 year's worth of memories. Removing it did damage the Pen as a whole, as Fiamma noted when he first tried out the remote, but it did not remove it completely. If the Pen were completely removed, it would be obvious, because Index's brain would implode.

so its a collar and not a necklace. I was asking if its a necklace because is been months since I last read vol 1. Though I also vaguely remember it being the one in charge of Index' memory overload or her needing mind wipe every year but I'm not sure because its been, like I said a long time since I read it. But the thing that confuses me is I remember John pen mode shutting down when it got destroyed which is why I thought that its destroyed permanently but it looks like its not.

[BW95]

Now that Othinus has joined the harem, I wonder if she'll provide any insight as to what the Invisible Thing is? She definitely knows and there's no reason she wouldn't tell Touma.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

1. Kakine since he is constantly the worf-char

But he isn't though. Worf is usually about proving some random newly introduced character N°431535 is really strong, by having them beating up another old one (who is already established as quite strong). All his beating revolved around him losing to already known strong or ultra bullcrap characters. Quite unlike Accel and Kanzaki who respectively got brutally curb-stomped by some First Sighted Unknown Autistic Alien Being and that non-Saint guy who followed the Second Princess around.
If you really want to call him anything, you'd call him the "punching bag char". But even for that one title, he's still far behind Touma and Kuroko.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

kamachi still centers everything around touma...

I disagree with most of what you posted, especially this point, but I don't want to waste my time on what is your opinion anyway, but I want to highlight this:

Mikoto/Index which degenerated into fan-servcie chars

This is false, compared to every other female characters, Index and Mikoto don't have that much fanservice.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

1. Kakine since he is constantly the worf-char

This one as well, since Kakine:
1. Lost against Accelerator after curbstomping everyone else during the Battle Royale, and dominating the first part of his battle with Accel.
2. Almost won his second fight, if it hadn't been for unforeseen events he couldn't have possibly predict.
3. Lost against a Magic God, the highest level a Magician can attain.

"Worf" is when the character loses against everyone, even people weaker than him, for ridiculous reasons, and especially when said character is said to be strong, and can't even demonstrate his power. Further, a character is said to have been "worfed" when he is weaker than his first appearance (this is clearly not Kakine's case). This is litterally not what happened to Kakine in every instance, at all.

The Invisible Thing suffered from the Worf Effect against Othinus, that is worf.

I suggest you revise your opinion on this. Seriously (or use another word)

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

she is a interesting character indeed..



good she have done more than LO but not in the slightest enough to be a MC which i expected of her since i started to watch toaru....



only to clarify: i am not a mikoto-fan, for me both personality have so much potential to be enjoyable and could be so interesting but kamachi still centers everything around touma...
from the enemys over the adventures to the endings in OT it was good but i dont like the NT series, (it isnt the way the story is written ,it is the feeling i have, like as if it dropped in quality...)

i like accel, he is my favo.
but feel sorry for three chars:
1. Kakine since he is constantly the worf-char
2. Mikoto/Index which degenerated into fan-servcie chars (my opinion)
3. everyone else which is introduced and tossed to the side because Kamachi focused on Touma again (my opinion)

EDIT: @dniv



this is not a point, everyone can start a journey for the MC, a random popped up fight between magicians as example, and touma helps the weaker one and the same story starts without index....



can be made witout Index's help, Hyouka simply falls in love/fear for touma like every single female girl in toaru.....



the bond can be created because touma helped them in a fight too you know....



yeah a good story indeed, but this does not make index into a not-side-char



yeah again it was a good storytelling, you know Accelerator would also kill himself after seeing that LO is happy with her 20.000 sisters...

Copying the Will of the Misaka Newtork:

But it doesn't matter if Accelerator would have done that if he were there, it was Touma who was there, and that's why he was the hero who had that happen to him. You shouldn't fault an author for picking a popular character to continue the story just because it isn't your favorite. I mean you might be disappointed, but it doesn't make the writing bad.

In any case, for me throughout NT Kamachi's writing style was much better than beforehand. He got much better at setting up scenarios, coming up with crazy ideas, and making things interesting.

Regardless, I stand by the fact that when Index eventually becomes controlled by Laura she'll become an MC again. Yes, she isn't one of the "main" main characters, but she still has a lot of important roles. It isn't like she hasn't been useful to Touma many many times.

Furthermore, Last Order isn't just the moralistic scapegoat. She's the reason Accelerator changed, because she explained to him his inner psychology. She did to Accelerator exactly what Misaka Will just did to Touma.

I honestly think you're-estimating their characters. I personally think whatever happened to Touma and his circle of friends will make these relationships interesting because it will call them into question.

I also don't think it's fair to just say girls fall in love with Touma for no reason... not only is he a pretty good friend to have, but he has saved their lives at least once. That's a pretty good reason to fall in love with someone. That's different from a harem, where girls just like you for no good reason.

It's not like Accelerator and Hamazura don't have one too.

Accelerator has his own manga now that is dealing with stuff conjecturally on the level of phases, so I'm guessing it's going to tie into the main story soon.

@All-fictions: I think he means the other type of fan-service. There is more than one type you know... i.e coolness, or head biting, or electricity tsukkomi, or ...

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Mikoto has none.

Mikoto has none? railgun? or vol 8? though that is kuroko. then vol 16? you know for possible ecchi scenes but other than that. There are other possible ways to say about fan service that doesn't mean ecchi scenes. Just like what Dniv said.

heck, fan service has LOTS of them in railgun. Even in the game

[Ravagerblade]

Dniv, are you saying that Touma will question his friends? Asking them *why are you my friend?* the little calling them into question part, I'm kind of curious, would be interesting for him to ask why they are even friends with him, I wonder what they'd say. *Well you saved me from...*

If that's the only reason lol that's a little shallow. (Not that's what happening just questioning things)

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

Dniv, are you saying that Touma will question his friends? Asking them *why are you my friend?* the little calling them into question part, I'm kind of curious, would be interesting for him to ask why they are even friends with him, I wonder what they'd say. *Well you saved me from...*

If that's the only reason lol that's a little shallow. (Not that's what happening just questioning things)

Perhaps, but I'm saying that the opposite might happen. His friends will start wondering why they're his friends... as he hopefully has to try to rebuild his relationships.