Mahouka - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

Well, except we ain't supposed to go "wow!! Tatsuya is stronger than those in Course 1!!! The system sucks!!:, but rather like "so Tatsuya can kickass, but what's he gonna do?"

except tatsuya isn't better then a course1. He admits it many many times. In terms of "magic" he sucks on a general level.

Again Tatsuya sensei made this clear.

If this were a combat and you wanted to hurl someone you just need a simple movement type magic to accelerate them with no regards for anything else.

But that's not what being a magician is about. That's just basic magic tricks. If you were to move a tea cup from one table to another, it would be much more complicated, and tax him completely.

Tatusya is a soldier with magical skills (that have been shown). He is sub par as a pure magician.

episode made it clear how course1 students might fight and course2 students might fight.
Erika is using basically move type magics at expert level swordmanship. Leon is using basic fortification magic with martial arts, etc, etc,etc

This is oppose to completely neutralizing threats of the SC, Discipline, and Miyuki styles are truly magic based.

I think people are forgetting this is a magic highschool. to go in depth people will have to read and find out.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

You brought the "fighting in an unfamiliar place intead of a kendo hall" first.

Hm, what? My point was that she wasn't fighting in the best conditions to use her kendo skills. That she could, in normal circumstances (like, you know, a kendo match), be an excellent kendoka and still lose badly against Erika. Both because circumstances are bad for her, and because magic is more advantageous to her opponent than to her.

And even if farfetched it still holds true for her stubbornish behavior.

What? You're the one who complained that what we saw in the fight, and her general characterisation, was inconsistent with her description as a good kendoka. My point is that you drew unwarranted conclusion from that last point. She may be good at kendo and still be naive, easily manipulated, and emotionally vulnerable. I see no contradiction there.

Originally Posted by kukuru

except tatsuya isn't better then a course1. He admits it many many times. In terms of "magic" he sucks on a general level.

Again Tatsuya sensei made this clear.

If this were a combat and you wanted to hurl someone you just need a simple movement type magic to accelerate them with no regards for anything else.

But that's not what being a magician is about. That's just basic magic tricks. If you were to move a tea cup from one table to another, it would be much more complicated, and tax him completely.

Tatusya is a soldier with magical skills (that have been shown). He is sub par as a pure magician.

episode made it clear how course1 students might fight and course2 students might fight.
Erika is using basically move type magics at expert level swordmanship. Leon is using basic fortification magic with martial arts, etc, etc,etc

This is oppose to completely neutralizing threats of the SC, Discipline, and Miyuki styles are truly magic based.

I think people are forgetting this is a magic highschool. to go in depth people will have to read and find out.

If I want to move a teacup, I pick it up in my hand and move it. They put the accent on practical skills because they want practical magicians to do practical things (like defeat enemy magicians).

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kukuru

I think people are forgetting this is a magic highschool. to go in depth people will have to read and find out.

You can thank the author for that. Just by looking at the OP, we can guess that Tatsuya will have another moment in the future to show off his skills with that Suzaku-lookalike.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Kendoka. My point is that you drew unwarranted conclusion from that last point. She may be good at kendo and still be naive, easily manipulated, and emotionally vulnerable. I see no contradiction there.

Yeah that's kinda what bugs me. But it's okay it's in the head of the writter i guess but isn't suppossed Kendo is about discipline, self-respect and such? (i mean, most martial arts follow principles like those) And usually the ones who are the best at it are also the most calm and cautious about it. Look at Tatsuya's instructor for example. He really gives the aura of a strong martial artist (difficult to pull off in a world almost entirely dominated by magic) and he gives said aura with his personality rather than his fighting skills (which are impressive but haven't had much chance to be onscreen). Mibu acts rather differently than how people described her, that was the only thing that made my scratch my head.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Yeah that's kinda what bugs me. But it's okay it's in the head of the writter i guess but isn't suppossed Kendo is about discipline, self-respect and such? (i mean, most martial arts follow principles like those) And usually the ones who are the best at it are also the most calm and cautious about it. Look at Tatsuya's instructor for example. He really gives the aura of a strong martial artist (difficult to pull off in a world almost entirely dominated by magic) and he gives said aura with his personality rather than his fighting skills (which are impressive but haven't had much chance to be onscreen). Mibu acts rather differently than how people described her, that was the only thing that made my scratch my head.

Kokonoe isn't an athlete - he's a ninja.

Sports may be supposed to teach you a bunch of values, but in practice, they often don't. And being good at competition is not a good indication of how well you've taken those values to heart.

So, yeah, it's possible and even probable Sayaka's good at keeping calm and shit under the normal pressures of kendo competition. But that wouldn't necessarily help her deal with her everyday problems at First High, or with her terrorism.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by PredatorVMT

LMAO.
Artificial limit? Made by whom? "The author"? Aren't all the works the same?
"The author" is the guy even "artificial" creates the world, "artificial" power-up the character to solve problems after they do something incredibly stupid (Highschoold DxD), "artificial" creates the plot.

Are you the guy that love the "power as the plot demands, generally after some "friendship is magic" speech and my MC must be weaker than everyone" shows?
I suggest you drop this.
I can recommend you something suits your taste: Sailor-moon, any mahou-shoujo works, Fate/StayNight, Toaru Majutsu no Index, Highschool DxD.
Those would be some great power-fantasy works for you.

You clearly don't follow this series (Index), Index =/= Power Fantasy, Mahouka = Power fantasy, well I'll let the people decide when the next few arcs are animated *cough*Yokohama arc*cough*

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If I want to move a teacup, I pick it up in my hand and move it. They put the accent on practical skills because they want practical magicians to do practical things (like defeat enemy magicians).

How do you know how magicians fight? There uses in society, and magicians in Mahouka.

All I can say is RAFO (read and find out)

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She was fighting while emotionally distraught rather than in the familiar kendo halls with the familiar equipment. (And what's naivety got to do with proficiency at martial arts?)


Which, to me, is symptomatic of a weakness in the writing.

As for the uniforms... I've already explained, at length, why I think they'd make a difference. A huge one compared to how little effort it would take to just change them at the next occasion. I don't feel like doing it again.

Something I think you over looked about the SC discrimination that is clearly stated during Miyumi's speech is that the president themselves is not required to be a course 1 student only the officers they nominate since the SC prez is the only office voted for by the student body and they have all the real power it really is a minor issue.

As for the bullying issue you have expressed about the uniforms there really hasn't been any indecation that it is that prevalent. The girls referring to him as a weed in the first ep would likely have made the a similar comment even if he was in course 1 as he was extremely early but those comments were not directed at Tatsuya or was he expected to hear them. the confrontation in the lunch room was mainly that a bunch of Miyuki's classmates were trying to get closer to her since she is the star of the grade. Hattori while being a jerk was not bullying Tatsuya and did have a valid point (and was more or less what Tatsuya had tried to use before to get out of the job) What happened to Erika during club week was again not bullying just overzealous recruiting. As for the kendo incident we now know that Mibu and Kirihara have a bit of a past and Kirihara claims to have been over come by anger and he does seem to be acting completely different now so I'm not sure it is really bullying there either.
So the one real attempted a bullying turns out to mainly being caused by Miyuki snubbing people.

[Ultragunner]

well, the uniform, IMO, does indeed put more oil into the existing fire. However, we can see it that way because we can put ourselves into the students's shoes. The ones responsible - the board, principle, chairman may not have caught on that issue, or perhaps they have but think it is trivial. Some of you are right about how the protesting Course 2 students have NOT address such difference, but I think even if they did, the higher-ups would just brush it aside, they would be like "it's just the freakin' uniform! Aren't you spoiled??!!!"

On the opposite, I do agree that even the uniform issue gets resolved, the animosity between SOME of the Course 1 & Course 2 will remain

[kusabireika]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

well, the uniform, IMO, does indeed put more oil into the existing fire. However, we can see it that way because we can put ourselves into the students's shoes. The ones responsible - the board, principle, chairman may not have caught on that issue, or perhaps they have but think it is trivial. Some of you are right about how the protesting Course 2 students have NOT address such difference, but I think even if they did, the higher-ups would just brush it aside, they would be like "it's just the freakin' uniform! Aren't you spoiled??!!!"

On the opposite, I do agree that even the uniform issue gets resolved, the animosity between SOME of the Course 1 & Course 2 will remain

I just hope someday that course 2 will have emblem due to erika and leo hard work

[IceHism]

I think the uniform issue will be explained later anyways as it seems there is a lack of info to really determine how the school feels about it currently.

Hmm, thinking about back to when Miyuki and Tatsuya had the talk about Blanche in the house. I think the only reason why people think that Mibu was strawman-ed was because of the student's inadequate argument that was most likely used to only buy time (meaning that the blanche students never actually thought that anything would come out of the public forum except for stolen classified research). Blanche's public message is to eliminate the differences in Salary

or as the ln puts it:

Spoiler for LN text:

"Thus, Blanche proposes to abolish the difference in salaries caused by magic, but in the end is really advocating the abolishment of using magic to obtain monetary compensation."

Tatsuya's argument would seem weak if it was about the equality of opportunity but it seems like Blanche is actually advocating for equality in outcome. Combined with the end of this arc in the next episode, I don't think Tatsuya's words were too out of place in the end really.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Tatsuya's argument would seem weak if it was about the equality of opportunity but it seems like Blanche is actually advocating for equality in outcome. Combined with the end of this arc in the next episode, I don't think Tatsuya's words were too out of place in the end really.

Well the entire 1st arc is colored by Blanche in general. They are manipulating the environment and characters introduced so, viewers (perhaps harsher then expected) are working through color lens.

The novel goes into great lengths to explain some of this culture through internal monologues to balance this, but the anime has clearly left a crap ton of hints even without the LN, viewers just need to be more aware then novel people.

Rooting for course 2 is like rooting for blanche in this respect because the entire scenario is planned by blanche.

How things might have happened if you didn't have a master schemer in the background will have to left up to imagination and more episodes.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kukuru

How do you know how magicians fight? There uses in society, and magicians in Mahouka.

All I can say is RAFO (read and find out)

I've read, thank you, and I know a large proportion of magicians fight. We also already saw in the anime how important fighting was to some students.

Originally Posted by kagato3

Something I think you over looked about the SC discrimination that is clearly stated during Miyumi's speech is that the president themselves is not required to be a course 1 student only the officers they nominate since the SC prez is the only office voted for by the student body and they have all the real power it really is a minor issue.

And you've overlooked that it doesn't matter if it's minor. It still sends the message that Course 2 students are inferior in more than just magic.

As for the bullying issue you have expressed about the uniforms there really hasn't been any indecation that it is that prevalent. The girls referring to him as a weed in the first ep would likely have made the a similar comment even if he was in course 1 as he was extremely early

No, they wouldn't, because they wouldn't know he was much earlier than they were. They'd say, if they bothered to remark on it, that he was also quite early, and wouldn't mock him for his "eagerness".

but those comments were not directed at Tatsuya or was he expected to hear them.

At best, they didn't care if he heard them, which is quite rude in itself. And that's a generous interpretation.

the confrontation in the lunch room was mainly that a bunch of Miyuki's classmates were trying to get closer to her since she is the star of the grade. Hattori while being a jerk was not bullying Tatsuya and did have a valid point (and was more or less what Tatsuya had tried to use before to get out of the job) What happened to Erika during club week was again not bullying just overzealous recruiting. As for the kendo incident we now know that Mibu and Kirihara have a bit of a past and Kirihara claims to have been over come by anger and he does seem to be acting completely different now so I'm not sure it is really bullying there either.
So the one real attempted a bullying turns out to mainly being caused by Miyuki snubbing people.

Yeah, yeah, everyone's always got a lot of excuses for bullying. It doesn't change the fact that they find it easier to indulge in it than they should.

[novalysis]

Given that so many of the participants in this discussion have read the Mahouka LNs, could I suggest that this discussion be continued in the Mahouka LN-Anime comparison thread in the LN forums? That way, we can have a more meaningful discussion without carefully dancing around spoilers.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

You clearly don't follow this series (Index), Index =/= Power Fantasy, Mahouka = Power fantasy, well I'll let the people decide when the next few arcs are animated *cough*Yokohama arc*cough*

Power fantasy in my book means :" you makes reallly really stupid decisions but the world and some super-power is there to save your ass". The power is existed to serve the MC's unrealistic and ridiculous goal, if the power does not exist, he will fail.

Try to save everyone including the enemies is stupid.
Look at Atlas*Fontaine*, there is none of that guy in Index universe.
Try to use some ripping-clothes magic is stupid. If not for that dragon power-up, we will get some delicious NTR in DxD v2.

The reason why i'm totally ok with Tatsuya's awesomeness is because his decision-making is realistic, down-to-earth. Unlike "people die when they are killed", "i will save everyone with power of frienship".
Take away his awesome OP power (which makes "Mahouka" stop being "power fantasy"), Tatsuya will still triumph with his intellect.
(But then again, why put yourself into unfavorable stituations when you can deal with shits ASAP and return to your lovely-dovey lifestyle?)

P/s: It's true that i haven't watched Index since the season 2. Not because i hate it, but because i don't feel movitated enough to watch some more.
To me, Index is just a decent anime and a decent time-killer.
But i think, that's enough to judge the series.

[Dengar]

^I always chuckle when people rip the "people die when they are killed" out of context. ^^" No worries, it's a common misconception. It became a bit of a meme because of the whole "well duhh" thing, but when you view it in context, it was actually one of the more rational observations that the character made. But that's neither here nor there.

As for the whole "lets root for course 2" VS "course 2 is wrong and there is no discrimination".

I'm not sure if this is what the writer is going for, but this has been a real life argument that has been happening between various different groups for a long while now. The biggest problem with this issue is that both sides of the argument are correct, and both of them are being an ass about it.

[pampz21]

Discrimination exist; its the first rule of life=survival of fittest!

If you have power; you have a right to choose.
Power is money!

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Dengar

^I always chuckle when people rip the "people die when they are killed" out of context. ^^" No worries, it's a common misconception. It became a bit of a meme because of the whole "well duhh" thing, but when you view it in context, it was actually one of the more rational observations that the character made. But that's neither here nor there.

As for the whole "lets root for course 2" VS "course 2 is wrong and there is no discrimination".

I'm not sure if this is what the writer is going for, but this has been a real life argument that has been happening between various different groups for a long while now. The biggest problem with this issue is that both sides of the argument are correct, and both of them are being an ass about it.

I remembered when that libertard told that, he tried to convince Saber to not kill his enemy (who try to kill him) and went on to talk how terrible it is.

And i was like: "THAT's exactly why we kill them. So they can die, retard."

As for the whole discrimination thing.
You remember when your secondary-school female classmate who teases you for being shorter than her? Do you feel all the angst back then is silly?
Well, same thing happens here. Discrimination is silly and funny.
-There are some kids who have inferiority complex who view everyone negative even if they are being kind to them. Mibu is one example (Just like that piece of shit in "Alive - The Final Evolution Manga").
-But there are also some cool kids like Leo, Erika and Mizuki. Those who enjoys their life, think positive and NOT let anyone roll over them. Treat discrimination just as an annoyed but trivia matter.
-Heck, there are even someone who are against the discrimination in the "Bloom": namely Mari, Mayumi, Miyuki. But they don't retort to the terrorist act....
...or try to rob from other their rightful benefit while pretending to be the robbed *Blanche*.

[Dengar]

Yeah see, that's what people think, but he was actually referring to his own tendency to NOT die when he is killed, and that the only reason he's alive is because of this. IE normal people would die if they went through all that. Or was this taken out of context in the anime? I just recall it making sense when reading the VN. But uhhh, I really don't want to derail the topic, so uhh, lets not linger on this for too long.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Discrimination exist; its the first rule of life=survival of fittest!

If you have power; you have a right to choose.
Power is money!

That's a bit of an oversimplification. But yeah. People being treated differently depending on their skill is a normal occurrence. Although it's no justification for bullying. But people often fail to see the two as separate.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Power fantasy in my book means :" you makes reallly really stupid decisions but the world and some super-power is there to save your ass". The power is existed to serve the MC's unrealistic and ridiculous goal, if the power does not exist, he will fail.

Try to save everyone including the enemies is stupid.
Look at Atlas*Fontaine*, there is none of that guy in Index universe.
Try to use some ripping-clothes magic is stupid. If not for that dragon power-up, we will get some delicious NTR in DxD v2.

The reason why i'm totally ok with Tatsuya's awesomeness is because his decision-making is realistic, down-to-earth. Unlike "people die when they are killed", "i will save everyone with power of frienship".
Take away his awesome OP power, Tatsuya will still triumph with his intellect.
(But then again, why put yourself into unfavorable stituations when you can deal with shits ASAP and return to your lovely-dovey lifestyle?)

P/s: It's true that i haven't watched Index since the season 2. Not because i hate it, but because i don't feel movitated enough to watch some more.
To me, Index is just a decent anime and a decent time-killer.
But i think, that's enough to judge the series.

No, season 2 is not "enough" to judge the series, that alone makes your claims that it's a power fantasy invalid, go read the series from vol 14 onwards and reach NT.9 then you can say anything you want about that series.

In contrast I read 9 volumes of Mahouka and came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth to keep following (and I was excited to read it), to me it's an average series at best, since everything that happens is just to show off how OP and perfect Tatsuya is, everything is an illusion, it's an interesting premise but so many things bog it down that it's not even funny.

Please do more research and don't assume (we all know what they say about assuming) I thoroughly read 9 volumes of the series and gave it a second chance and more I didn't just read a few chapters and go "nope this is this and this and it should be written off as this". Just go and read the TAMNI wiki (at the least) at the most read a few of the volumes.

I am not saying this is a bad series, it's just not as good as everyone makes it out to be. I bet that Yokohama arc will change a lot if minds here.