Chronicle Legion [Light Novel]

[RDNexus]

Given the current state of things, I'm also getting slightly inclined to the idea of Masatsugu actually being another Roman hero (a less known one, as it seems), and that revelation being a curveball towards Ceasar

[zzhk]

The wrench in the works with Belisarius is that Masatsugu doesn't recall any experience with ships.

[wghokay]

Between the choice of Subutai and Jebe, I would put my money on Jebe, since Genghis Khan and Subutai have a very close relationship (they grow up together).
Also, Jebe is the name given to him by Genghis Khan, his birth name is Zurgadai.
This plays well with Masatsugu having little attachment to his name, as his Legions most likely recognizes him as Jebe, which is not his true name.

On another note, if the theory that Masatsugu is Jebe (or Subutai) being true, I think the author will also let Subutai resurrect to the present day (imagine the bromance and fujobait).

[Urbano]

what i liked more about the yaoi hint was the renew indication that Masatsuu was not a general with means. He didn't have the luxury to go by orthodoxy ways. He most likely was forced to think outside the box, force to consider what others would deem absurd. A very interesting character.

[Marx-93]

Originally Posted by wghokay

Between the choice of Subutai and Jebe, I would put my money on Jebe, since Genghis Khan and Subutai have a very close relationship (they grow up together).
Also, Jebe is the name given to him by Genghis Khan, his birth name is Zurgadai.
This plays well with Masatsugu having little attachment to his name, as his Legions most likely recognizes him as Jebe, which is not his true name.

On another note, if the theory that Masatsugu is Jebe (or Subutai) being true, I think the author will also let Subutai resurrect to the present day (imagine the bromance and fujobait).

I think you may be confusing Subutai with Jelme, his older brother, who did indeed grow up with Genghis and also had quite the bromance with him (he was also one of the four dogs and nine ministers). Jelme and Genghis were around 15 years older than Subutai; when Subutai joined them he was 14 years old but the others were more than 25.

For the rest, completely agree, and the point with the name is a good one.

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by Marx-93

I think you may be confusing Subutai with Jelme, his older brother, who did indeed grow up with Genghis and also had quite the bromance with him (he was also one of the four dogs and nine ministers). Jelme and Genghis were around 15 years older than Subutai; when Subutai joined them he was 14 years old but the others were more than 25.

For the rest, completely agree, and the point with the name is a good one.

You are right, thanks for the clarification!

On a related note, the vision of Masatsugu might refer to the expedition of Subutai and Jebe preceding Battle of Samara Bend and Battle of Kalka River (as pointed out by Imagine Breaker), in which Jebe and Subutai split their forces during the expedition.
Also, Jebe reportedly died on the way of return after this victorious campaign.
Since it seems that Masatsugu's vision goes in opposite direction to his timeline, the scene of his vision probably happened close to his historical death, which might be another hint that Masatsugu is Jebe. (On the other hand, Subutai lived long after this campaign and died twenty years later.)

[Rokumonsen]

One thing that confuses me is that Masatsugu's supposed to be a hero that can rival Caesar. I assume the greater the hero, the more legions he command.

[belatkuro]

"It's true, I don't want Onii-sama to go out of control and make things even more complicated. A-Although I'm a bit curious about men doing that to each other..."

I feel like Hatsune will ship Masatsugu with Taisei sometime later on given her newfound curiosity.

[dragon1412]

as good as a point to Jebe it was, i am having trouble with how he described his past being hated by his master, the reason being that despite worry about Jebe, Genghis Khan never really show it. In fact, Genghis Khan actually quite trustful of Jebe, until the victories over Kuchlug of Kara Khitan. And this doubt didn't last long either.

For the point in name, Mongolians general change their names a lot. Since they have custom of bestowing new name and title.

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

as good as a point to Jebe it was, i am having trouble with how he described his past being hated by his master, the reason being that despite worry about Jebe, Genghis Khan never really show it. In fact, Genghis Khan actually quite trustful of Jebe, until the victories over Kuchlug of Kara Khitan. And this doubt didn't last long either.

For the point in name, Mongolians general change their names a lot. Since they have custom of bestowing new name and title.

I agree with your thought, and that was my main reason before not to immediately conclude that Masatsugu is a Mongol general.
However, with Volume 3 Chapter 4, all the hints seem to point to that direction, and maybe the hatred thing with his master is a red herring (remember Argonauts' hint for King of the End?)

[Marx-93]

Originally Posted by Rokumonsen

One thing that confuses me is that Masatsugu's supposed to be a hero that can rival Caesar. I assume the greater the hero, the more legions he command.

The problem is, what is a "greater hero"? I would put two examples

Jan Zizka: A Czech national hero. It would surprise me to find anyone knowing who he is (I found about him by chance some weeks ago). Yet he was undefeated in battle, used unorthodox tactics and gunpowder weapons a hundred years before anyone else (for comparison, Nobunaga was born 175 years after him). He lead a rebellion of a small nation state against two of the most powerful kingdoms in Europe (the Holy Roman Empire and Hungary) actually destroying them in battle. The Pope sent two crusades after him and he likewise crushed them. His nation entered a civil war and he simply destroyed the other side. He basically invented the first precursor to the tank (the War wagon), and routinely defeated armies three times bigger than his own.

Guan Yu: A brave hero of the Three Kingdom era, deified as a War God in China for his strength and loyalty. Yet the truth is that he never actually won a battle in which he alone was the commander. His greatest triumph was that he made use of a an accidental flooding, yet he still managed to transform that into one of the worst defeats of Shu. He lost territory in the Jin province twice, despite both times having been left behind specifically to defend it. In the long list of his combat actions, his failures far, far outnumber his successes. Yet he is remembered as a great hero and general.

Caesar is very famous and a brilliant military commander, but there were certainly others above him in tactics and military success (I would argue Scipio, for example). However he was extremely charismatic and very good politician too, so the impression he gives is enormous.

Using characters like the Black prince, Caesar, the Lionheart and Wei Qing, I think the author is trying to say that fame matters, but actual performance matters even more. In fact, moments like dissing Nobunaga and Joan of Arc, or Wei Qing lamenting about his lack of fame seem to me like subtle digs at this idea of "famous heroes".

[dragon1412]

Truth to be told, as much as i agree with the author about Nobunaga, i actually have some doubt regarding Joan, of course, i do agree that her feat is mostly exaggrated, she do have some degree as a commander, as she did assisted and provide military advise.

[Takamusubi]

For some reason, I'm leaning towards Han Xin from the Chu-Han contention period as much as Subutai or Jebe being the most plausible guesses for Masatsugu's true identity so far, at the very least if we're looking from how he's not well-liked by his master - Liu Bang wasn't too chipper with Han Xin as his general despite Xiao He recommending him to Liu Bang.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Takamusubi

For some reason, I'm leaning towards Han Xin from the Chu-Han contention period as much as Subutai or Jebe being the most plausible guesses for Masatsugu's true identity so far, at the very least if we're looking from how he's not well-liked by his master - Liu Bang wasn't too chipper with Han Xin as his general despite Xiao He recommending him to Liu Bang.

doubt it, recounted the history, Masatsugu is impossible to come from China, since in China, Calvary is only possessed by army belong to nobility. Most of army in China would be infantry and there is no way for Masatsugu to described his life with the horse if he were to be born in China, much less in Liu Bang era. And plundering is more of a trait of Mongols or Huns rather than Chinese.

[belatkuro]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Calvary

I'm triggered.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

I'm triggered.

hmm oh, mistakes. sorry

[Marx-93]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Truth to be told, as much as i agree with the author about Nobunaga, i actually have some doubt regarding Joan, of course, i do agree that her feat is mostly exaggrated, she do have some degree as a commander, as she did assisted and provide military advise.

Well, more than Joan itself (who kinda was an illiterate farmer girl), historians agree that real military mind behind her was Gilles de Rais, who was a decent commander when he wasn't busy murdering children. Still, I think Edward and Morgan were praising du Gesclin and Charles V more than simply dismissing her; both were able to recover almost all of what the English had gained in 3 years after Edward left to England, while Joan of Arc got herself captured in barely a year with minor gains.


I do agree that Han Xin seems very doubtful. Not only the lack of cavalry in Chinese armies until Wei Qing and Huo Qubing, but the fact that his plans mostly relied on starving the opponent, instead of himself (that and that he was a king, in fact mostly autonomous until the end of the war) and certainly not on charging in front of his cavalry. Another option is Khalid ibn al-Walid and ‘Amr ibn al-‘As. Khalid was a brilliant cavalry commander (reportedly undefeated) which conquered most of Iraq and Syria for the Caliphate and had a fairly tense relationship with the second caliph. ‘Amr ibn al-‘As meanwhile was the conqueror of Egypt and a friend of Khalid.

I do find it unlikely though, as Arabian cavalry did not normally use horse archers (those were the turks) and their steeds were of the highest quality. And Khalid was associated with a sword (Sword of the Islam) instead of a spear or arrow.

[Yunyuki]

i think him beiing one of the mongol generals is the most plausible from the current hints in the story (from what is translated)
first of all amounts of miles to ride horses on flat land would be impossible in japan at least
second the description 2 headed dogs is most famous from a line of the military classics about mongols (altough i wouldn´t bet on subutai etc cause they were called the 4 dogs)
next would be "dog" part of it; according to a report of that time europeans described mongols to look like dog-headed people

[dragon1412]

rather than that, Chinese back in the days mostly refer to the mongols as "dog of the plains" and the mongols tend to refer to their own self as " hunting hounds" as their culture of hunting is revolved around hounds and horses. i'd say refer to himself as dog pretty much applicable to any generals descend from mongols line.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Spoiler for Spoiler question:

Is there any significance to Masatsugu referring his and his comrade-in-arms' army as "the empire's strongest spear and fastest arrow"? When I read that line, I immediately thought that Masatsugu's identity was Jebe, but when I looked if Subutai had any metaphorical relation to the spear, I came across nothing so I guess that's moot.

I would really, really like Masatsugu to be Subutai instead of Jebe. He's the #1 person I want him to be lol. Though the author could go and make Subutai some sort of boss later on due to the prominence of his name.