Why are people so against anime?

[Solace]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Trying to convert pirates into buyers is an easy task.

People pirate more than ever. Digital piracy is blamed for a lot of things, but there's never been any conclusive proof that piracy directly resulted in low sales. Nor has there ever been any conclusive proof that people who pirate would instead pay for a product if you satisfied their reasons for pirating in the first place.

What is different now, however, is the creation of the "ecosystem" as a business model. Steam and iTunes are successful because they lure you in with some good sales, and you begin to build up a library of titles to the point that if a competitor to those platforms showed up, you would be deterred from switching to it. They amplify this effect by using as much social integration as possible: friends lists, groups, referrals, anything to get you to build an emotional connection, to make you feel invested.

Basically, we're rapidly moving away from a company offering a product and convincing you to buy it at the highest possible price point, to a company offering a bunch of products but locking them behind paid walls that require you to abandon all of those products and any community you've built in it if you walk away.

It's much easier to justify not purchasing a single game, movie, etc., than it is to convince someone to migrate to a completely different service, especially if it means losing all of library and/or friends list.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Solace

People pirate more than ever. Digital piracy is blamed for a lot of things, but there's never been any conclusive proof that piracy directly resulted in low sales. Nor has there ever been any conclusive proof that people who pirate would instead pay for a product if you satisfied their reasons for pirating in the first place.

What is different now, however, is the creation of the "ecosystem" as a business model. Steam and iTunes are successful because they lure you in with some good sales, and you begin to build up a library of titles to the point that if a competitor to those platforms showed up, you would be deterred from switching to it. They amplify this effect by using as much social integration as possible: friends lists, groups, referrals, anything to get you to build an emotional connection, to make you feel invested.

Basically, we're rapidly moving away from a company offering a product and convincing you to buy it at the highest possible price point, to a company offering a bunch of products but locking them behind paid walls that require you to abandon all of those products and any community you've built in it if you walk away.

It's much easier to justify not purchasing a single game, movie, etc., than it is to convince someone to migrate to a completely different service, especially if it means losing all of library and/or friends list.

Itunes doesn't have a friends list. You can share Netflix accounts but there is hardly any social interactions. Spotify people can see what you listen to but its still pretty minimal. None of them are as hardcore as steam in creating a community.
And it doesn't matter if there are pirates, we just need the creators of these products be paid more money than they used to make the show

There's no conclusive proof but it is an easily observable trend that we are moving towards "ecosystems" and/or subscription-based services. South Korea's music industry had a gigantic crash in the 1990s but revitalized itself with a subscription based music download system. In the US, digital music sales have overtaken physical music sales.
I'd even say most console game sales are made over PSN, and xbox/wii's equivalent store.
The only exception out there is Japan which still mostly sells on physical CDs since they are a bit reluctant to embrace newer technology for some reason.

And alas it is true that there is no dedicated anime ecosystem for international fans. Which is why I think investments in one could change A LOT of things for the status of anime internationally. If anime needs to market itself to non-japanese audiences, I can't see a better solution than something like this. I think its vastly superior than the one we have now with series fragmented over different streaming sites or the one where we have to walk in a store and get a boxset

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I think its vastly superior than the one we have now with series fragmented over different streaming sites or the one where we have to walk in a store and get a boxset

Or just send an order to RightStuf or Amazon. I haven't bought anime from a brick-and-mortar store for at least four or five years now, probably longer.

[Yui Is My Wife]

You need empathy and compassion to relate to Anime Characters, and an abundant LACK of any of those qualities to relate to current western animation.

Point in fact:



The fact that anime haters LOVE to coldly-dismiss ANYTHING more warm and sentimental than a drainpipe as "schmaltzy" only drives the point in further.

[Guernsey]

When I watch some anime I usually experience a massive culture shock, we Americans are much more raunchier than most Japanese counterparts. I am only being broad as there are some raunchy anime works as well.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Point in fact:

What point is there to make by comparing to completely different shows? I don't know either.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

What point is there to make by comparing to completely different shows? I don't know either.

Was pointing out just why western animation fans LOVE to tear into Anime; people who grow up loving cold and mean-spirited TV-shows like Simpsons and Family Guy that requires you to laugh at the suffering of decent people, cannot comprehend the fact that you need empathy and compassion to enjoy Anime, virtues that their stunted sense of empathy cannot produce.

From personal experience, people like that dismissively and sarcastically sneer after ONE episode of "K-ON!" how you're wasting time watching "fantasies" about "nice happy people", and then point you in the direction of some nihilistic crap called "joe-pee-pee-maltin's play of chairs", or what the F#<> ever it's called, where it better reflects "reality" by showing a world where medieval assholes whore the virginity of their sisters out for the eggs of fire vomiting lizards when they're not throwing innocent children out windows.

Yeah, MUCH more "relevant, intelligent and realistic" than Music Students working hard together and supporting each other's hopes and dreams through friendship and courage.

[Fizix]

So people who don't like anime but like family guy lack empathy and people who watch anime have empathy?

Sorry dude, but your spouting nonsense with that whole thing.

[iSuckAtWriting]

Nico thinks YIMW is trying to say that people being meanie to fuzzy anime often prefer meanie shows themselves. Unless it's Disney, which is like toootally loved because it's western they Nico-niiiid everyone's hearts!

[Levani]

@Yui Is My Wife

How about you compare pieces of work that are in a similar genre? Let's say, Legend of Korra, a beautiful western animation that tops most of shounen in terms of story-telling and visuals, ends its third season with the main character crippled, in a wheelchair, with tears. It was one of the most heart-breaking moments I've personally ever seen and the audience saw that as well.

Cartoons that have serious plot, continuity, on-screen murders, even suicides, do exist. And I am a fan of animation in general, I'm not picky about where it originates from, however I despise when either side decides to act like they're superior.

To think that anime is the only branch in animation that deals with heavy drama and is "serious and humane" is arrogant. I would even call it a nonsense of a fanboy, no offense.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Said Simpsons Lover above, is a now-former friend since boyhood when I was a Tolkien fan like him.

He took ALSO took ONE cold look at My Folio of Manga Artwork that took MONTHS to learn from absolute beginner-hood and tossed it aside like so much trash BEFORE shoving that copy of "joe-pee-pee-maltin's play of chairs" in my face, sneering how THIS is the sort of "art" I should support and be creating, and how returning to My Homeland to learn how to draw manga was a waste of my life compared to being a writer of medieval bullcrap.

Ow. That hurts, coming from someone you once regarded as a brother all your life. Makes it REALLY hard to want to show any respect for anything that he loves.

[Fizix]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Said Simpsons Lover above, is a now-former friend since boyhood when I was a Tolkien fan like him.

He took ALSO took ONE cold look at My Folio of Manga Artwork that took MONTHS to learn from absolute beginner-hood and tossed it aside like so much trash BEFORE shoving that copy of "joe-pee-pee-maltin's play of chairs" in my face, sneering how THIS is the sort of "art" I should support and be creating, and how returning to My Homeland to learn how to draw manga was a waste of my life compared to being a writer of medieval bullcrap.

Ow. That hurts, coming from someone you once regarded as a brother all your life. Makes it REALLY hard to want to show any respect for anything that he loves.

From this one post it looks like someone you respected really hurt you, but you're kinda doing exactly what you're condemning your old friend for.

You are better off without that friend btw, anyone who rubs your own artwork in your face like that isn't a friend, they are an idiot.

Ultimately though, your old friend acting like a goon doesn't validate your stance. What you've said is incorrect.

Family Guy, Simpsons, Game of Thrones etc are all valid works and good shows, as are many anime.

Coming back on topic...

I personally can't blame anyone for disliking anime though, its an entertainment medium from a foreign culture so its an ask for anyone to get into and appreciate (this stands for all entertainment from different cultures, especially those removed from your own). You have to actively want to get into it.

I took the choice to explore anime and there is a lot I dislike, quite a lot of stuff makes me feel very uncomfortable (both with anime and the fandom). So for someone who hasn't made the choice to be open towards it, it comes as no surprise that a lot of people find it off putting.

The other half hates anime and she's seen a lot, she lives with me so she has too as I have to watch stuff I don't like. I find most of what puts her off completely understandable and there is plenty I actually agree with her about. There is a lot to object too.

[Archon_Wing]

If the comparison is that people fail to take into context the narrative of a given work that is fine.

You weren't supposed to find Grimey's death funny. It in fact out pointing the lack of empathy from the characters that shows how cruel and uncaring people are. You are not supposed to laugh with them because it is clear nobody has a sense of decency. It also serves as commentary of how self centered people are like when dealing with protagonist centered morality.this is in fact one of the better episodes of the Simpsons I would think. Although the trend of the increasingly dumber Homer would cause trouble.

Not that the Simpsons was always good but a lot of anime would never be in its league... Sao none withstanding.

Putiing Family Guy into this is no problem for me though. It was amusing for few until it devolved into the trash it gets remembered for.

[Draco Spirit]

Family Guy is pretty funny, through sometimes the jokes go too far. then again I could point out a few anime that go too far at times too!

Serous story telling in animated form is something you find in anime a lot more than western shows, through its changing a bit.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Draco Spirit

Family Guy is pretty funny, through sometimes the jokes go too far. then again I could point out a few anime that go too far at times too!

Serous story telling in animated form is something you find in anime a lot more than western shows, through its changing a bit.

I think it maintained a unique balance at first but then it just decided to do whatever. I think this is because it is going on for too long. Happens with anime too!

[Draco Spirit]

Agreed, going on for too long can happen with long runners, you need to know when to end it.

[Archon_Wing]

In any case, I do not feel a good idea to push anime by pushing down other mediums. At worse, you make them all look worse.

[Triple_R]

Yui Is My Wife is putting it a bit strongly, but I get his point, and it reflects some of my own observations on modern anime vs. modern North American entertainment.

I honestly relate more to a largely life-affirming and sentimental anime show like Clannad, Tari Tari, Tamayura, and Love Live! than I do almost anything coming out of North American entertainment in the past decade or more (the odd superhero movie might be an exception).

Now my personal background of growing up in a fairly large, stable family in a rural Canadian community definitely plays a large factor here. But I'm also not entirely alone there. I'm sure there's plenty of families like mine throughout North America. Plenty of people and families that would enjoy something like Clannad because it would speak to them personally and directly.

And what I find truly sad is that North America used to be great at this. The 80s and 90s had plenty of family sitcoms with much the same spirit as what Clannad has - I'm thinking of shows like Full House, Growing Pains, Family Matters, Home Improvement, and Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

It's funny - I find that for all the criticism that anime sometimes gets for ecchi-fanservice, it's nonetheless currently better at family-friendly entertainment than the west is.


When I want something that moves the heart and stirs the soul, I turn to anime, and it often delivers. I haven't turned to western entertainment for that in a long time.

[itisjustme]

^Honestly I think that's just partly a trend swing, and partly something caused by economic circumstances, hardening political/media divide, world news/9.11 and the pit of humanity's deepest darkness and corruption known as Twitter.

It's easy to see the difference if you compare two of my favorite shows, the West Wing and House of Cards (Yes I know HoC is based on an earlier british show). We're in an age of dark cynicism whereas the 90s were the age of idealism, propaganda even, especially in Hollywood.

But hey they say cynicism is only disappointed idealism so I guess that's only natural.

[GDiddy]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Was pointing out just why western animation fans LOVE to tear into Anime; people who grow up loving cold and mean-spirited TV-shows like Simpsons and Family Guy that requires you to laugh at the suffering of decent people, cannot comprehend the fact that you need empathy and compassion to enjoy Anime, virtues that their stunted sense of empathy cannot produce.

From personal experience, people like that dismissively and sarcastically sneer after ONE episode of "K-ON!" how you're wasting time watching "fantasies" about "nice happy people", and then point you in the direction of some nihilistic crap called "joe-pee-pee-maltin's play of chairs", or what the F#<> ever it's called, where it better reflects "reality" by showing a world where medieval assholes whore the virginity of their sisters out for the eggs of fire vomiting lizards when they're not throwing innocent children out windows.

Yeah, MUCH more "relevant, intelligent and realistic" than Music Students working hard together and supporting each other's hopes and dreams through friendship and courage.

There are some things in anime that are better than Western shows but there are some Western shows that are better than anime. Also, certain things are more tolerated on Japanese television than in Western television.


Also, you do realize that there's plenty of Japanese animation that are a lot like 'JOE PEE PEE MARTINS PLAY OF CHAIRS' where virgins get whored out and innocent children drop like flies while the world ends?

No offense, but this post sounds awfully....weeabooish.