2007-06-02, 10:11 | Link #242 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
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It's a little awkward addressing males with the suffix, -chan. And I think Chaos was pretty traumatized by Erio, another forum member calling him that.
EDIT: W-wait, who's Aero-chan? A and K are pretty much on opposite sides of the keyboard. That can't possibly be me can it?
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Last edited by Aaron008R; 2007-06-02 at 10:26. |
2007-06-02, 10:13 | Link #243 | |
~ I Do ~
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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But honestly Chaos, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!
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2007-06-02, 10:31 | Link #244 | |
Confused person
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I loled at the sound of that although the spelling is not right |
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2007-06-02, 10:37 | Link #245 |
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Aaron ~ I'm just playing with you.
_______ Back on topic, why don't familiars or Yuuno materialise weapons or barrier-vests. Or is Yuuno's ferret-form his barier defence. (well he does look invincible when munching Ayu's fish-biscuit food) And back in season 1 he when Nanoha and Fate blew the gem ~ around episode 6 I think. The resulting explosion didn't seem to have any effect on Yuuno, even though he was basically naked.
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2007-06-02, 10:43 | Link #246 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Duly noted, Cats-san.
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All in all, I'm not too sure. But as far as I know, the presence of a Barrier Jacket is not dependent upon a device, unless the variants Nanoha and some others are taken into consideration.
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2007-06-02, 10:52 | Link #247 | |
Confused person
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During that explosion it could be his BJ or he might casted barrier just not shown.Also i dont think device is really connected to the presence of BJ since Fate was wearing her BJ a few times in season 1 with Bardiche in mode form (or nanoha in this season) |
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2007-06-02, 10:53 | Link #248 | ||||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Yes... imagine my surprise when I saw this when I came back from the gym.
Speaking of which, dammit, Kha! Work on your timing! Starting to post just before I head to the gym... *grumble grumble* Anyhoo, back to Chaos. Quote:
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Possible explanation? The barrier that te Lieze twins ut up witheld any damage from occuring. After the starlight breaker was fired, that field was destroyed, leaving only Reinforce's field, and the city was prone to damage. Quote:
But why bother with the non-physical damage at all (which is hardly suported by canon) instead of the barrier jacket protection theory I posted here which is A: a lot more suported by canon and B: explains most of the who's and why's. Quote:
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2007-06-02, 11:05 | Link #249 | ||||||||
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2007-06-02, 11:14 | Link #250 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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I've been doing for the whole afternoon ...Kha, you take over or something... This is your speciality after all.
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2007-06-02, 11:38 | Link #251 | |
~ I Do ~
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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BUT IT'S MORE FUN OVER HERE-Here-here-here-here......
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2007-06-02, 13:00 | Link #252 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Wow, it's a little hard believing you guys. Well, at the very least we've managed to transfer over the magic and tech discussion over here.
In any case, I do remember the magical and physical damage being brought up quite some time ago. Magical damage, if I remember correctly, does not cause injury but can cause alot of pain. Mages can change their spells for how much physical and magical damage, but how much change they can do depends on the amount of control they have over their spells. |
2007-06-02, 13:15 | Link #253 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Magical damage and physical damage have the same result: injury. I point at the drones once more, they can't feel pain, they're torn apart. The difference? Magical damage is brought from a source that is purely magical in nature, and therefore succeptible to AMF (such as Nanoha's attacks) while physical ones are created with the help of magic. |
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2007-06-02, 13:28 | Link #254 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I'd say Divine Buster is about 50% magical and 50% physical normally. She will usually control this for it to deal more magical damage and less physical damage if she does not want to injure her opponent. Fate's scythe/haken forms are probably more around 15% magical and 85% physical normally, and hence its tendancy to cause injury. A ratio like this would be harder to make mostly magical, although a very skilled mage should be able to do it. |
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2007-06-02, 13:42 | Link #255 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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So technically, whenever I say magical damage, I mean physical damage from a magical source. Now onto what I disagree upon (and what I have been arguing these last few hours) is the entire 'magic damage does not have to cause wounds but still causes pain' Now, I'm going to be lazy and copy an earlier post of mine, which looks at the source of this discussion, and sheds a new light: If I recall, this 'physical damage/soul damage' thing started after Teana survived two direct hits from Nanoha, seemingly without even single scrath on her body. This sparked discussion because there was absolutely no damage to be seen, this is also when people dragged up the other incidents where this happened and decided to explain it by going with the soul/spirit/linker whatever you want to call it damage. The only reason this started was to explain why people could survive direct hits without a scratch. Everyone still with me so far? Good, let's continue. Now, let me ask you, how much evidence do we have that this so called 'non-physical damage' exists? None. 'But Keroko, look at Fate! Look at Teana! They survived direct hits from powerfull beam blasts without a scratch! It can't be physical damage!' Why not? During A's Nanoha and Fate get tossed through buildings regularely, and get out without a scratch. Are you saying that getting tossed through a building is 'non-physical damage' as well? No, obviously that is physical damage, and yet both Nanoha and Fate get up, clutch a random body part in pain and get back to fighting, despite the fact that there is not a single surface wound. So we've established that beams deliver physical damage, purely because there is no evidence stating otherwise. So how do we explain that people keep getting hit and comming out without a scratch? Well, instead of looking at the ofensive and start theorycrafting, let's look at it's direct oposite: Defense. There are many types of defense, and most are outwardly defending the blow before it hits the body. Shields, fields, barriers, we've been through them, and nobody used them during the incidents mentioned. But they still have one more layer of defense, one that is a lot less dramatic, yet we can't imagine our doom-girls without them: Barrier jackets. Is it not possible for a barrier jacket to nullify, or at least extremely reduce, the impact of a beam of destruction? We know they are defensive material, it has been mentioned multiple times. So why do we ignore them as if they don't exist? Why can't it be possible that it is not the beam, but the defense in question that makes sure people don't get a single scratch? Think about it. It makes more sense, and has a lot less unproven theories in it. |
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2007-06-02, 13:58 | Link #256 | |||
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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It's pretty thick too~ Yuuno's nothing but skin and bones And so are all the other familiars. Quote:
If you mean the explosion in episode 8 then Teana was in mid air, in what should have been virtual-thin-air. Quote:
My guess is that magic in this show is more a term used to describe how they are able to manifest a seamlessly random unknown form of energy (call it mana what you will) to a physically recognizable form. Hence Yuuno's words that Nanoha should imagine the armor and weapon in season 1. So in other words it's not magic as in spells as with RPG games but spacial-manipulation and manifestation. Niven's Law_________________________ Also, Regarding the Yuuno, Familiars etc. can cast spells without devices. -Theory to make the impossible possible- I've been thinking, has Yuuno cast a spell without a magic circle?! I'm not sure if he has but if he hasn't then we have a world of possibilities. Presumably he's not casting without a device because he's creating a temporary device (the casting-circle) Ability properties...I haven't thought much about it, namely at proof or counters but I think it explains more pieces in the show then the Linker-Core-Math theory~ So be gentle and flame and bash as hard as you can...
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2007-06-02, 14:06 | Link #257 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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The physical/magical talk happened long before that episode.
In any case, yes, the defense is powerful. The barrier jackets are strong enough to make terrain-based damage(getting hit into a wall or something) cause no actual injury. However, they are not strong enough to take strong direct attacks(Fate's scythe/haken blades or Signum's sword). The physical/magical bit is here to explain why some attacks cause no visible injury while other attacks do. I'd wager that Starlight Breaker is probably more powerful than Fate's scythe attack, and yet even when Fate took a direct hit there was no visible injury. |
2007-06-02, 14:12 | Link #258 | |||||
Adeptus Animus
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Last edited by Keroko; 2007-06-02 at 14:48. |
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2007-06-02, 14:38 | Link #259 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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A big part of the problem with analyzing attacks thrown in Nanoha is that, basically, the -vast- majority of them aren't intended to be lethal. Nanoha's generally trying to get people to sit still and listen, not waste them; for Fate, Nanoha was just in the way, not her actual target. The knights were specifically going around not actually killing people. We can't be -sure- that Reinforce 1 was actually going all-out - there's a big difference between "seal Fate in a world specifically designed to make her happy" and "kill them all". So far the drones, presumably lethal, haven't even singed anybody. So the number of confirmed, "I am trying to kill you" attacks against human personnel so far is -one-, whatever hit Nanoha back when, and we don't even really know that for sure. Hell, even Precia didn't kill anyone.
So frankly, we don't have any way to judge what a full-power you-gonna-die hit looks like, because we haven't seen any of them hit somebody. We might have if Vita didn't cover Subaru from Teana's stray shot - presumably Tea is going all-out to pop drones - but I'm just as glad that Subaru didn't provide live-fire tests for the jacket. ;p We can safely conclude that the barrier jackets do provide significant defense against things which are purely physical damage (getting blown through a wall). We can conclude that they provide at least some level of magical defense against big-ass incoming (Nanoha's Starlight Breaker), though we don't know how well they'd fare on their own against a killer shot. We do know that it's possible to get injured through the jacket by a sufficiently powerful attack, even if the jacket isn't itself damaged. We do know that Nanoha got practically killed by an attack that left her jacket mostly intact, though we have reason to suspect that her magical problems may have interfered with its function. We also know that Fate's barrier jacket did her zero good against Precia, though it's always possible that Precia was just hitting Fate -that hard-. We don't have enough data to conclude anything about "magical" or "physical" contents of attacks, save that some attacks have a definite "physical" component that can punch through an AMF easily (Vita's balls, Zafira's spears, Nanoha's Stardust Fall, Fate's lightning.) Assuming that the flying drones have some AMF, and that Nanoha can bust them without even turning off her barrier, we can imply that (a) Nanoha kicks that much ass, (b) she can do a Variable Shot-type effect, (c) that her bright and shiny attacks aren't purely magical, or (d) she's the title character and the writers aren't being consistent. Your call. |
2007-06-02, 14:54 | Link #260 | |||
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Upssy~
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I'm talking about RAW magic. Quote:
My point, if it's spacial manipulation etc then there is no magic damage. Since magic is just the ability to manifest a form and control it while it's manifested. At least it sounds good when you think the source for magic is called a "linker-core" which sounds like something used to create something in a way. Quote:
I'm not familiar with your second reference. Anime or manga?!
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