2012-06-14, 08:36 | Link #2642 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
Quote:
10 Armour = 1 resist. Your damage reduction is calculated by multiplying these two values together. This means 6500 armour and 400 resist is the same as 4000 armour and 650 resist. And because of how the game is programmed, you want to try to keep armour and resist in 10:1 ratio as close as you can. So I am saying you could have cut your resist down to 675 or so, and have 6750 armour. 675*675=4.5 million true defence. Compared to 800*5000=4 million true defence that you have now. (And you don't want to just stack armour or resist, as there is incremental decrease in effectiveness at certain break points.)
__________________
|
|
2012-06-14, 17:45 | Link #2643 |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
|
5000 armor = around 62% mitigation
800 resist = around 71% mitigation your total mitigation as a ranged, you'd take home 11% damage of the original value. If you're melee, around 8% 6500 armor = 68% 200 resist = 40% Your take-home damage would be close to 19%. Significantly more. 6500 armor and 400 resist = 13%. 800 resist, 5000 armor is still better. For cost effeciency, it's a good practice to try and keep the 10:1 ratio of armor and resist if you can. The 10:1 ratio is true, but you have to also keep in mind the amount of % you get per point decreases as the number gets higher. It's not a simple addition. This, often mistakenly is called diminishing returns by people on forums, is actually not a dimimishing return. It looks like it becuase they are called the % value of mitigation "retun". However, the closer you get to 100% mitigation, the more value each % has, thus, raising the return vaule (actual mitigation in comparison to previous %) at the same rate as diminishing the accumilated % points. So there's no actual diminishing "value", since reduction of say... 99% to 98% is not the same result as reduction from 2% to 1%. But regardless, balancing resist and armor is easier way to achieve higher accumilated mitigation.
__________________
Last edited by aohige; 2012-06-14 at 22:49. |
2012-06-14, 18:44 | Link #2644 | |
Did nothing wrong
Author
|
So I managed to stack 5 valors in act 2. Yay! Except I didn't see another elite for another 25 minutes. What the fuck? How hard is it to find an elite in act 2 inferno?
It's about to expire, and my enchantress is like "yo, we have a chance! It's over there!". Can I kill him quickly enough? Nope, Vortex, shielding, fast, something (like it really matters); died in 4 seconds with serenity keeping me alive for 3. They moved so fucking fast I can't even outrun them, nor can I with vortex going in. :S I simply can't do shit against shielded monsters. After the ressurection timer hit 30 sec I ragequit in disgust. Rigged. Back to act 1, amirite? :S I also like how you're supposed to have to dodge the more telegraphed attacks. That's fine. That could take skill even if they do massive damage. Except Diablo 3 has the hit box detection of a game that wouldn't be acceptable in the NES era. And they actually tried to justify this garbage http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663050#15 Quote:
The attitude is clear. Something as basic as dodging an attack is not intended. What it really means is a dedicated effort to remove skill as a factor in the game. So that, well, go to the auction house! The worst part is that it's fairly evident the game designers don't know how to play their own game. (In fact they said so, since they didn't test Inferno) So to make assumptions like this is fairly asinine. Let's get this right though. I didn't buy Diablo 3 for it to be a good game. I just wanted it as a platform to play a game I know many people, especially acquaintances and friends could play. Game balance is secondary to me-- server stability and integrity is first. But the attitude is callous to say the least. The part of the game I enjoy the most is the AH. But that's a problem in and of itself. More: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5813011726
__________________
Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-06-14 at 19:26. |
|
2012-06-15, 01:23 | Link #2647 | ||||
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
|
Quote:
These explain better than I do: Quote:
Quote:
Where I will agree with your assessment though is in the one difficulty level where this entire philosophy breaks down: Inferno, where one-hit attacks are so common that this entire system renders the entire difficulty near impossible. This is more of a numbers issue with said difficulty than with the mechanics themselves though, and if they adjusted the damage and health of monsters to match the difficulty curve of Normal > Nightmare > Hell, then we wouldn't have as many complaints as we do. Edit: Reading through the entire thread, there's a recent post showing that the "problem" was actually fixed to an extent: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...50?page=25#499 Quote:
__________________
Last edited by LoweGear; 2012-06-15 at 02:23. |
||||
2012-06-15, 05:37 | Link #2648 | |||||
Did nothing wrong
Author
|
Quote:
But it's not the game design in itself that I find offensive. When a blue post says something condescending and obviously doesn't know what they're talking about like: Quote:
Quote:
Compare this to d2, where monster AI is improved in hell mode and if I ever died or did badly, I always knew that I did something wrong and could improve without getting new gear. Well, except lag... ;p Elite packs could be planned against with a strategy. Lightning enchanted monsters were lethal, but the sparks came out in a predictable, dodgable fashion that could mean the difference between lolstomp and getting killed. In D3, most elite traits require you to be 1.5 screens away or you activate your invincibility thing or you can't avoid it at all. So really, pattern recognition > hitting a button. I refuse to buy the "you shouldn't be that close to them". There's plenty of superfast monsters that you can't easily clear, and this is especially unfair to melee who MUST get hit badly. With the exception of the dodge %, it's impossible to avoid. It just kinda erodes away at the "action" part of Action RPG. Also, certain dungeons and quest situations generate monsters that are insanely close, like in act 2 when you first enter the palace or even something as simple as those skeletons right outside Leoric's door. And yes, D2 had that, but that was 13 years ago for crying out loud! A broadband connection is required for D3. Quote:
Quote:
Should write in the notes for who you are in the request, but I guess I can guess which.
__________________
Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-06-15 at 06:05. |
|||||
2012-06-15, 06:07 | Link #2649 | ||
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
|
Quote:
The thing to remember is that this isn't a mechanic unique to Diablo 3. It's actually a very common mechanic in alot of RTS games, just that in this particular case the implementation of the hitscan timing makes it look "bugged". Quote:
And pray tell, how is this any different from Diablo 2? Testing my Barbarian on D3, he plays very similarly to my Barbarian in D2: dodge incoming ranged fire, tank what you can't dodge, and then slaughter them in melee with Bash and/or Whirlwind. And my Wizard plays identically to my Hardcore Sorceress then: Kite, spam spells, don't get close to anyone, and if they did they'll taste Frost Nova (I miss the days when it was spammable, I sometimes kept it with my right click ). Never had I needed to split-second dodge regular attacks by simply walking out, and nor did I have the reflexes to do that anyway. If I got hit in melee by non-jumping or non-teleporting mobs, that was my own fault for not positioning myself better. The "Action" in this action RPG is to make sure that when the time does come that you find yourself overwhelmed or in a pickle, that your spells and abilities are capable of extricating yourself out and prevail. Gear plays a big part in how effective you are yes - this is Diablo, of course it does - but I don't feel that D3 is any less "actiony" than D2 was, especially not with the presence of a hit-damage mechanic that's always been there. Note that my positive experience for D3 lasts as long as Hell difficulty. I still think Inferno relies far too much on artificial difficulty to be worth it. I'm waiting on their damage value adjustments in Patch 1.03 in order to continue through it.
__________________
|
||
2012-06-15, 06:26 | Link #2650 |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
|
Inferno Act-1 is fine, if you are used to Diablo 2's Hell Difficulty. Give it a twirl, the experience might surprise you. Seasoned gamers should not find Inferno Act-1 exceedingly hard.
Cheers.
__________________
|
2012-06-15, 13:07 | Link #2652 |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
|
Tried to advance in Inferno Act 2, and made it to the Enchantress Bridge before I decided I just wasn't ready for it yet. First Elite pack was Illusionist-Mortar-Arcane-Desecrator Fallen.
ಠ_ಠ It's okay. I got this. Teleport in with Thunderfist while Serenity is up and kite around the arcane beams and desecration pools. Like a boss. Woo, that wasn't so bad right? Then I meet the next Elite pack. Illusionist-Molten-Waller-Something WASPS (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ I can't melee them head-on, because of their LOL-butt-bug-bombs. I can't chase after them because of the Molten affix. And strafing is near impossible because of all the illusions spamming their bug-bombs. Epic rage when I finally lock one down only to find out that it is an illusion. In the end, I was forced to park them in some forsaken corner after dying so that I could proceed with the quest to disrupt the ritual. I can handle normal Wasps pretty easily, but the Elite versions are just insane. Going to have to rethink my skill selection for Act 2. Hmm...
__________________
|
2012-06-15, 13:34 | Link #2654 |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
|
lol I rmb wasps....
after I learned inf act with friends I was like, "ok guys, that was ez, lets do act 2" *get face smashed in* Those wasps are esp horrible as they tend to shoot 3 missiles at you while you are right behind them chasing them down. Those are cakewalk for ranged dps though. My demon hunter prints money while my barb burns them. |
2012-06-15, 14:07 | Link #2655 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
|
DH just require a lot less gear to be effective. But with really good gear, melee can farm better because they won't get one shoted and can still have relatively high dps. But to get there prob requires 10xthe gear cost of DH.
__________________
|
2012-06-15, 14:50 | Link #2656 |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
|
10x? Are you kidding me?
I spent less than 100k on my DH: he is wearing a lot of blues I found on barb: a dex/IAS+str/IAS ring, dex/ias neck. I borrowed a str andy helm from barb (costed only 150k) and I found my chest and bow (used to use a 1k dps bow I found as well). I do well as long as I am careful enough vs trash. I usually die to spear throwers/archers/soul rippers while heading south because of the limited vision in that direction. Just a stormshield on my barb alone costed 14mil (worth 20mil now). Any decent piece of melee gear cost at least 2mil+ a piece. With 13 slots it would be 26mil. That is 260x the money I spent on my DH that does the job on an equivalent level. Not to mention each full repair on barb cost 14-15k while DH cost only 7k. A well geared melee can easily chew through trash (other than some trash that aren't really meant to be tanked: big axe skeletons and giant crab tremors can still hurt. Vs elites @ 20k dps they still take a little while to die. A ranged class in "equal" gear are no longer glass cannons. Wizards and DHs are able to take at least a hit (or two) from those ranged attacks that usually 1 shot them while still doing a fair amount of dps (50-60k base). As long as I have room to kite I can kill most non-illusion/non-inv minion elites with traps only (that's how I kill siegebreaker), melee is pretty screwed vs any ground effect+jailer, screwed vs fire chain, screwed vs mortar against elites that run away... The grping hotfix was a blessing: monk+barb is actually quite powerful when you stack the buffs and debuffs. Why must melee pay ranged classes gold (and even real money) in order to progress? My own barbarian's progression is carried by my demon hunter: without my DH my barb would most likely be stuck in act 2. I have sold dozens of moderately good melee oriented gear (60 resist all+40 phy/ele resist, ~80 vit and some str/dex) for $12.99 on the AH and they sell like cupcakes. Unless you can already farm efficiently I feel that melee classes are just fueling my pockets. When ranged classes get bored of playing ranged and farming, they can afford to spend 60-100mil to buy a new set of barb gear - because we have made so much more already. I am confident that I can easily have made over $1k if I had made a DH/wiz on day 1. tl;dr: This game is broken and don't buy shit off rmah. |
2012-06-15, 15:09 | Link #2657 |
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
|
Diablo 3, where gamers make money off the game lol...
Finally got my barb into inferno, kinda liking it better than my monk but then again, my monk's gear is a bit out of whack right now. I hope they would fix some of the monster's attack especially those long animation power attacks the melts melee cause they will auto track you even when you try to dodge it.
__________________
|
2012-06-15, 17:17 | Link #2658 | ||
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2012-06-15, 17:33 | Link #2659 | |||||
Did nothing wrong
Author
|
Quote:
But even Sc/sc2 offer a high level of control, and in fact a lot of the microing is focused around animation cancelling. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying this doesn't work. Act 4 is well conceived to this kind of playstyle. But Act 2 was horrifically boring in every difficulty to me compared to act 1 and 3. Long narrow stretches of nothing following by those asshole bugs that just kite you. And let's talk about the original Diablo. It didn't have to use overcrowding and the game was slow, but the pace of the game was consistent enough to keep you on your toes since every a few monsters could overwhelm you if you didn't know when to backout and conserve resources. In d3, you have to conserve resources, but the skills require such a long wait and potions suck so much that you just have to conserve time. Which involves a lot of sitting around. But I feel that's another problem-- they wanted health orbs to replace potions, but health orbs are so inconsistent that you are constantly at the mercy of the RNG, and it's easier to get them from trash mobs, meaning that they aren't reliable enough to help when it really matters. Quote:
__________________
|
|||||
Tags |
arpg, blizzard, dungeon crawler |
|
|