2015-08-08, 02:59 | Link #2681 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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AIM is still a particle energy but its a left over energy. Its a passive energy that esper emits. They can't control AIM release.
as for Hyouka having emotions and act like human, because she is the combination of different AIM. which is why she acts like human when in face of eminent death. Close contact to IB that threatens to kill her, gives her sentience to evade or fight back.
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2015-08-08, 05:14 | Link #2682 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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2015-08-08, 06:22 | Link #2683 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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2015-08-08, 06:41 | Link #2684 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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BIB: i also think that "being alive" comes before "feeling something", as example, i doubt that plants "feel fear" but they are still alive, "having fear of death" doesnt seem to be a necassery part in order to be considered alive (im sure there are people who are born different (brain-wise), this allows them to not feel anything if it comes to negative things (like death/torture/etc), but they are obviously alive...) btw, this is how i see it in RL, it seems like in toaru-verse you need to fear death in order to be considered alive in the first place :/ |
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2015-08-08, 10:11 | Link #2685 | |||||
lethal office stationery
Join Date: Oct 2012
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There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings here about really basic TAMNI lore. It would take a ton of effort to correct everyone one by one, so I'll just write some TAMNI 101.
Spoiler for Lesson 1: Quantum Physics and how Espers Work:
Spoiler for Lesson 2: AIM and Kazakiri:
Spoiler for Lesson 3: Five Overs:
With the basics out of the way, I can now do some actual speculation. I agree that Personal Realities come from the soul. The brain is needed to control the power, but Accelerator could manifest his wings even when brain damaged without network support. Plus, as pointed out earlier, animals can't seem to become Espers, regardless of intelligence. That said, the soul is not life force. Again, I deny that AIM is similar to mana in any way. Quote:
Really, we've seen them do very little before they were de-powered, but nothing to suggest they could do anything that Othinus could not. The only way they seem to be superior to Othinus in the slightest way is that they don't need a tool like Gungnir to control their possibilities. Quote:
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You seem to be misunderstanding something. You seem to believe that casting spells causes AIM rejection. That is not exactly the case. Rejection occurs in response to refining life force into mana, which is needed to cast spells. Thus, the details of the spell you're trying to cast, including the distance to the target, are 100% irrelevant, because rejection comes into play one step before the spell is cast.
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2015-08-08, 10:28 | Link #2686 | |
Supreme Coconut Edgelord
Join Date: Aug 2015
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1. Norse magic is connected with Norse Mythology - Fairy Tales are connected with Pagans Beliefs - And this is really stretching it, but Grimoires also draw inspiration from things like holy books, as well as made up things like the necronomicon. No, I'm not going to go back and read it. Birdway's explanation really was that boring to me. 2. Komoe Sensei - Teachers can't be expected to know everything. Maybe level 0s were only capable of becoming magicians (They are untalented.) But thanks to the Power Curriculum Program, this avenue is forever closed off to them. Plants don't have senience or independent thought. Animals are not smart enough to be Espers, they cannot produce the calculations required. (They are untalented.) Gemstones are not created arificially. They also are not a product of magic. But that doesn't mean anything until Kamachi makes an arc about them. I expect them to fall between both magic and science. Feng shui, perhaps? Why would Rensa be unable to use an Esper's power if they are dead? thats an easy one - Esper powers are not entirely dependent on genetics. Univeral Truth: based on scientific fact. Their views are confirmed by proven hypothesis. Spiritual Beliefs: Based on emotional intuition. Their views are confirmed by personal enlightenment. 3. AIM/Residual Energy - You're missing a step, scientifically speaking, energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Once again, this energy must have an actual source. Either it is produced from some weird chemical reactions in their brains (Hint: No chemical reaction on earth is strong enough to do this within such a small scale as the human body unless they were literally made of pure atomic elements), their own life force, or it comes from the planet itself. Misaki - Five_Over/Mental Out/Exterior - A brain requires oxygen, a complete functional nervous system, and blood circulation. As long as Misaki remains alive, the brain can use her AIM field. If she dies, it loses her Esper ability. If its destroyed, she loses her ability boost. (Which she did.) Fun fact: The artwork for the FIVE_OVER intended for Misaki also shares similar characteristics to Aleister's glass tube in the windowless building. Noukan's rocket drill utilized AIM. AIM was either channeled into the drill by Aleister, or into Noukan himself. But then again, Noukan has the brain of a human impanted into his head, so wouldn't that mean he is capable of using AIM or even Mana? 4. You just stated that all the magic gods had died at some point. You even presented their physical representations, all of which basically imply that their bodies are technically dead - (A girl that hanged herself (Her arm also fell off when talking to Ollerus), a mummy, a vampire, and an acutal zombie even.) Like you said, after they all died, they entered a new form of existence. Doesn't this kind of explain itself? Dude they're dead, they died. The High Priest was dead for days, possibly even months. Yet, he came back. That pretty much says that his soul is bound to a dead corpse. This most likely applies to all of the magic gods, you know since they're dead and stuff. Alesiter instilling fear was probably a side effect in their weakening. Here's a better explanation - they were downgraded to demigod status - making them mortal instead of immortal. They gained the imperfections of mortals, which includes frailty. Gabriel is an angel - pure Telesma - but in order to cross over and materialize into their world, it required a living medium - Misha Kreutzev. God's right seat - not being able to use normal magic due to being cleaned sounds like repentance or spiritual retribution if you ask me. Ollerus - Not being able to use normal magic doesn't matter, he was never considered normal from the beginning. No, he is not a 'regular magician.' 5. Kazakiri does not have internal organs, her physical form slips in and out of reality constantly. Her AIM comes from other Espers, and possibly from Aiwass. She is not technically alive. She is closer to being something of an artificial intelligence, or more like the Will Of The Misaka Network than an actual living human being. (She has a crystal inside of her head, that is not a brain - but it does cause her to simulate a lifelike state - is it her soul? holy shit, I think it is.) 6. I doubt that I'm the only person who thinks this. But like I said, it can't be confirmed, only speculated. 7. Lastly, I'm not trying trying to poke fun at you dude, I'm just pointing interesting things out for others to speculate on. Try not to take things too personally. |
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2015-08-08, 12:06 | Link #2687 | |||||||
lethal office stationery
Join Date: Oct 2012
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I urge you to reconsider your decision and swallow the bitter pill of overly long exposition, for both your benefit and that of everyone else here. It'll help make your speculations more consistent. Quote:
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The energy doesn't come from the Esper, they simply observe the required energy to have been there from the start, a normally highly unlikely but nevertheless possible event. In general terms, this means that particles in the surroundings will have less energy than average, so that conservation of energy is not violated. No life force is required. AIM is not science mana. Quote:
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The Modelcase Railgun is the same. It just uses power, technologically advanced but ultimately mundane electromagnets to exceed Misaka's own railgun. Again, no AIM involved. None of the Five Overs use AIM as that would defeat the purpose of a machine designed to exceed Espers without actually using Esper powers. Quote:
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2015-08-08, 12:14 | Link #2688 | |
Of Infinite Resignation
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 29
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I'm trying to make your theory into something approaching plausible, because as it is, it is illogical, inconsistent and ignore canon. There is way too many holes to enjoy it or find it interesting. Pretty sure that's what this thread is about: testing the plausibility of speculations to see which one we would like to be real. If you haven't thought your things through, that's not really my fault.
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2015-08-08, 12:36 | Link #2689 |
Supreme Coconut Edgelord
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Sorry, it's just that you do sound a little bitter. Honestly though, I'm fine with people shooting holes in my speculations. Just keep in mind that Espers and Magicians are not real. The very idea of humans being able to do any of these things ignores logic completely. No, I did not ignore canon, I can tell you're testing me here, sorry, but its not working.
Thoughts affect no one, they change nothing. You are not are at fault, and neither am I. |
2015-08-08, 12:54 | Link #2690 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
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@Tiken
You seem to misunderstand basic lore stuff. You can use things completely unrelated to religion as a basis for magic. The only reason that most of what we see of magic is religious-based is because Idol Worship makes it more convenient that way. You don't need to hold religious beliefs to do magic. If you find the explanations provided on the series boring that's fine, but don't try to argue against people who do understand them. Brain and calculation ability is a necessary component of esper powers but it's not the key. The Tree Diagram was the most advanced AI in Academy City and it still couldn't develop esper powers. Reread OT8 for Awaki's thoughts about esper powers only appearing in humans. Reread NT11's report on Misaki and Ayu for another mention of the brain's relation to esper powers. The Rensa point is that she is recreating an esper's body characteristics but ultimately she can only act as an output point for the power, so more proof that the brain is not the key for esper powers. Gemstones are natural Espers. Considering we have an Esper who can create matter and another who violates the laws of thermodynamics I don't see why espers, who in the end are extremely limited reality espers, wouldn't be able to create energy. The Five Over do not use AIM, they are explicitely a purely mechanic and scientific recreation of a Level 5's power. The mechanics behind the A.A.A have not been explained yet besides it drawing power from Aleister. It may be AIM but it's not confirmed. Noukan is a dog who was enhanced by the Kiharas, he wasn't originally human. The person who transfered his consciousness into an animal body was Shundou who put it into a killer whale. Shundou himself notes this difference when they fight in NT11. You can speculate all you want, that's something to be encouraged. But you are either ignoring canon that doesn't support your speculation or you haven't paid close attention to the series. |
2015-08-08, 13:09 | Link #2691 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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re-read birdway's teaching about idol theory and magic mechanics in tamniverse.
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2015-08-08, 13:26 | Link #2692 |
Supreme Coconut Edgelord
Join Date: Aug 2015
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I didn't say 'they' were testing me, I said that 'Allfiction' was. Still, I do not blame him for questioning me, nor anyone else who does so.
Look, this entire thing has somehow been derailed by a few petty things, and for some reason it keeps leading back to everyone wanting me to go back and read Birdway's explanation again. I wouldn't have even mentioned it if I knew it was going to turn into this. Can't you all just accept that I don't want to do that? How about a new suggestion, you guys carry on with your thoughts, and I'll just leave the discussion completely up to you guys. You can just forget I was even here. Hell, you know what, you can even make fun of me and call me names, I don't mind. Sound cool? |
2015-08-08, 13:53 | Link #2693 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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I'm fine with moving on but please comeback again and we can continue in discussion. The others are just correcting your mistake. Please don't take it as wrong. It might sound boring to you, but Birdway's lecture is pretty informative. Specially the idol theory thing. To make it simple idol theory is the magicians copying the legends or acts that has already happen before. Since its already been done before. They are emulating it. Copying the methods and producing the same results but different in scale. Mostly idol theory from the legend of gods are in grand scale so when its been copied and tried to be replicated by ordinary man. Its been downsized a A LOT. From vol 1 of index idol theory. Now for magic gods. They are also using idol theory but more of reverse for it. They are just doing what had they done before. Othinus was the origin of norse myth. The norse myth was basically a retelling of what she had done before. The people tried to copied the legend but they aren't the same level as her. Some talented magicians can do the same as the legend. They even take the name of the legend like Thor, Fenrir or Helel. That incorporates the reverse idol theory. The basic of magic is to refined ones life force to make it into mana and to power up the spell formula with it. If its not spell formula, then the spell ritual or the spell itself. But basically, it needed mana that comes from life force as a source of energy. The espers doesn't work like that. Sure they got tired from performing the feat but they don't need to refine life force of mana to produce their ability and AIM is the byproduct or residual energy that comes after the feat is done or just by the esper themselves.
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2015-08-23, 11:19 | Link #2694 |
one way road
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Academy city
Age: 27
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So i was having this discussion about Accelerator Lvl 6 and it turn into Aleister goal discussion so i post my thoughts about the discussion but no one replied so someone told me to post here, so here goes
Spoiler for My thoughts:
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2015-08-23, 12:28 | Link #2695 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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at least accel got described as one, it mostlikely represents his mindset of his and the world, basically: there are two sides in everything, good-evil, light-darkness, yin-yang etc and horus is the mindset that your will is the law and doing what you want (at least as far as i understood), maybe this is why some people think that white-wing-accel reached the aeon of horus :/ either way, first the story would need to reach the aeon of horus (meaning: aleiters arc) in order to than change into another one Quote:
kamachi will troll the readers and how that instead of aleister as big-end-boss there is still aiwass imagine aiwass as the final big bad who wants to become even more powerful and reach the final "nameless aeon" which will make him into a god Quote:
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2015-08-23, 17:27 | Link #2696 | |||||||
one way road
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Academy city
Age: 27
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2015-08-26, 13:11 | Link #2698 |
Supreme Coconut Edgelord
Join Date: Aug 2015
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It's likely that nobody here wants to hear what I have to say, (Me referring back to my own previous posts), but rather than just writing it off as blind hatred of magic, it might be that he is actually trying to stop something from happening, in the future perhaps?
Picture this: what if the original (old) world has already been destroyed by some cataclysmic event, and the world they are living in is just one giant illusion. Maybe in this illusion that everyone is living in, his daughter is still alive, but in the future, she is destined to die because of..high priests actions (Please don't hate me for bringing him up again.) Aleister said it took him what...50 years to find someone like Accelerator? I started thinking about this after reading the prologue in NT13. It said: "The world is only being maintained because something special is happening." Would it be unreasonable to believe that someone, or something, turned back time, and the events that are happening are just being repeated a second time? |
2015-08-26, 16:24 | Link #2699 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Just thinking regarding potential AC launch failure contingencies (conventional rocket launches); given/as well as the use of drones in School District 23, do you think neutralizing agents and dispersal units may be viable possibilities?
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