To Aru Majutsu no Index - Light Novel - New Testament Volume 9

[dniv]

Originally Posted by AmazingDarkKnight

Ok you guys lost me. What secret are you people talking about? His memory lost is the only thing that makes sense to me. And I did read NT 9 might I add.

That when he was talking to his opponents to get them to change, he came up with BS reasons every time when he was punching them to shatter their resolve so his words could get through to them. He actually didn't believe in what he was saying and never thought it was that simple at all. He just did that to cast doubt into his opponents.

Since he's a liar in a sense even if he's trying to do good things he's a sort of anti-christ just trolling everyone. The point is that every time everyone respects him for spouting out these ideals, they are all fake and all he really cares about is that people were saved. This was an important "secret" that I thought was true the entire time, but which a lot of people apparently didn't. Also, Index could tell this was true for a while, but others couldn't.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by dniv

That when he was talking to his opponents to get them to change, he came up with BS reasons every time when he was punching them to shatter their resolve so his words could get through to them. He actually didn't believe in what he was saying and never thought it was that simple at all. He just did that to cast doubt into his opponents.

Since he's a liar in a sense even if he's trying to do good things he's a sort of anti-christ just trolling everyone. The point is that every time everyone respects him for spouting out these ideals, they are all fake and all he really cares about is that people were saved. This was an important "secret" that I thought was true the entire time, but which a lot of people apparently didn't. Also, Index could tell this was true for a while, but others couldn't.

I doubt that Touma was actually calculative enough to spread ideal to confuse opponent, in my eyes it more like he is saying it purely on his emotion so i think he truly meant what he said during those fight, it's not necessarily fake but they have their problem, and when he look back, he himself realized the hole in his ideal as with the Fiamma arc showed it, he start to aware of his true intention during Fiamma arc, and in NT 9, he is fully aware of his true self thanks to Will and Othinus.

[LG-MAX]

Dniv, I was referring to hell that Touma spent on other worlds.

I doubt that Touma was actually calculative enough to spread ideal to confuse opponent, in my eyes it more like he is saying it purely on his emotion so i think he truly meant what he said during those fight, it's not necessarily fake but they have their problem, and when he look back, he himself realized the hole in his ideal as with the Fiamma arc showed it, he start to aware of his true intention during Fiamma arc, and in NT 9, he is fully aware of his true self thanks to Will and Othinus.

I always thought these issues ideas Touma something complicated, has several situations in the series where he shows a realistic face(vol 14 chapter 2), but in fights, at the climax of many fights he was an idealistic guy, but he admitted that these ideas are random, if it is random, so maybe even he does not believe them, but these ideals are usually drawn solely for valuing human life, Touma seen people die, then it would not meaningless what he says. Well, anyway, Kamachi said he destroyed the concept of what Touma thought was right and wrong, let's see how far this goes.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

Dniv, I was referring to hell that Touma spent on other worlds.



I always thought these issues ideas Touma something complicated, has several situations in the series where he shows a realistic face(vol 14 chapter 2), but in fights, at the climax of many fights he was an idealistic guy, but he admitted that these ideas are random, if it is random, so maybe even he does not believe them, but these ideals are usually drawn solely for valuing human life, Touma seen people die, then it would not meaningless what he says. Well, anyway, Kamachi said he destroyed the concept of what Touma thought was right and wrong, let's see how far this goes.

I think Touma's going to tell them what happened as he promised Misaka Will who already also knows the secret besides Othinus which is why I thought you were talking about the other thing...

Also, about what both you and dragon1412 posted:

I understand that Touma felt strongly about what he was saying, but the fact that he wasn't actually thinking it was that simple while he was pretending it was in order to get the resolve to pragmatically finish the situation, and he was even aware of that, makes him more than somewhat of a boss, and it also makes him a lot more realistic than he was before.

The important point to be made here is that he didn't think he was always clear-cut right with respect to why what the villains were in the wrong. But he just thought that the only way to get through to their suffering selves was to find some reason to find higher moral ground and break their illusions.

This series has centered around Touma breaking other people's illusions, but it seems to me like a lot of the illusions he is breaking aren't that simple really. This is why I referred to it as a secret that most characters don't know. I feel like Aleister already mentioned this when he said that Touma isn't purely good even though a lot of in-series characters think he is purely good. That's why I was touching upon this.

Touma does what he thinks is right, and it makes him a lot more heroic than many other characters/people, but he's still human. A lot of people don't like his personality because they don't understand where he's coming from spouting his random ideals. But I think here, this makes him a lot more understandable to other people because those random ideals are really just random... they're how he feels in the moment, not what's ultimately right and wrong. That's an important difference.

In regular shonen, you see people talking about what's right and wrong, not about how they feel at moment X. Yes, there are some characters who say, oh I just felt like saving you, bu the big difference there is that they usually don't have their depth well-explained through having tons of tons of volumes of plot exposition.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by AmazingDarkKnight

Ok you guys lost me. What secret are you people talking about? His memory lost is the only thing that makes sense to me. And I did read NT 9 might I add.

I was talking about this post from Hiss: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=2695

I don't know into what dniv's twisted the idea though .

[LG-MAX]

I think Touma's going to tell them what happened as he promised Misaka Will who already also knows the secret besides Othinus which is why I thought you were talking about the other thing...

things do not always happen according to what you want.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

things do not always happen according to what you want.

For example:

1. Touma didn't tell Index about his memories. Or Touma still doesn't apologies to Index for it as he promised.
2. Touma never did tell Mikoto about the magic side, and even if someone does it she will dismiss it(Railgun Side Story 2).

[hamazura]

i finished.
ok.
this is actually awesome.
i wanted kamiyan to die.
and this author grants my wish 10.031 times.
and saint seiya-like battle is always interesting.
kamiyan said the longest dialogue ever with #10.031, someone pls read and post in youtube!

just a few(many) question
1. is the world was really destroyed? literally? that black space is real and not illusion?
2. othinus really literally re-created the world a bunch of thousands time?
3. she is literally omnipotent god?
4. how did kamiyan could stay alive and remain in black space?
5. why did othinus giving kamiyan something like trial similar to what shinji from EVA experienced? because she is bored and want some entertainment?
6.how can kamiyan have 10.031 lives? even cat only has 9!
7. if number 6 answer is because othinus want him to not die, why?
8. othinus rly doesnt want imagine breaker? what? what? so why the hell she keeps kamiyan alive? -_-
9. kamiyan will talk-no-jutsu entire world and othinus-chan will live with touma and index. anyone has the same idea with me?


...



final : so othinus is just lonely-egoistic-little-middle-school-in-her-puberty girl who hope senpai will notice her today? -_-

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by hamazura

just a few(many) question
1. is the world was really destroyed? literally? that black space is real and not illusion?
2. othinus really literally re-created the world a bunch of thousands time?
3. she is literally omnipotent god?
4. how did kamiyan could stay alive and remain in black space?
5. why did othinus giving kamiyan something like trial similar to what shinji from EVA experienced? because she is bored and want some entertainment?
6.how can kamiyan have 10.031 lives? even cat only has 9!
7. if number 6 answer is because othinus want him to not die, why?
8. othinus rly doesnt want imagine breaker? what? what? so why the hell she keeps kamiyan alive? -_-

All of these are explained in the volume.
1. Yes, it really was destroyed. The black space was real.
2. She recreated the world changing whatever she liked altering the filters of the world.
3. Don't know about omnipotent as that would imply omniscience and being able to handle the mental strain but she's the closest Index has come when she wields Gungnir.
4. Because Othinus didn't want him to die, the space had oxygen, because Imagine Breaker role as a reference point for the world, etc...
5. To break his mind and make him kill himself. Also 7.
6. Because Othinus never really killed him until the end of their fight she just changed the world the moment before Touma truly died.
7. Because she wanted to force him to kill himself in order to make absolutely sure he died and Imagine Breaker wouldn't be a problem. That's consciously. Subconsciously she subjected him to experiences similar to hers because she wanted someone who would understand her; that was her goal from the beginning.
8. Look 7

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by hamazura

just a few(many) question
1. is the world was really destroyed? literally? that black space is real and not illusion?
2. othinus really literally re-created the world a bunch of thousands time?
3. she is literally omnipotent god?
4. how did kamiyan could stay alive and remain in black space?
5. why did othinus giving kamiyan something like trial similar to what shinji from EVA experienced? because she is bored and want some entertainment?
6.how can kamiyan have 10.031 lives? even cat only has 9!
7. if number 6 answer is because othinus want him to not die, why?
8. othinus rly doesnt want imagine breaker? what? what? so why the hell she keeps kamiyan alive? -_-
9. kamiyan will talk-no-jutsu entire world and othinus-chan will live with touma and index. anyone has the same idea with me?

1)Its not really just the world but the whole universe was turn into nothingness again. No stars in the galaxy was saved. Everything was re-written. Her power is in universe level.
2) Yes, she recreated the universe again and again until she can find her own home.
3) Not Omnipotent. Just that broken
4) She needs imagine breaker or rather she doesn't need it but she needs it to stay to touma so it won't interfere with her plan. IB is the reference world so if Othinus killed Touma right there and there. It will probably transfer to someone and it might interrupt her from recreating her world. Its much easier if she know where IB is than it being missing.
5) To kill himself. Touma won't die because of his plot armor/misfortune or whatever you call it. Unless he kills himself but even that is not enough because the world is screwing him. When he tried to commit suicide he falls on a wooden plank which is mysteriously there and he didn't notice it before he jumps -_-
6) He didn't live for 10000+ times. It was implied his hell life continues for thousands of thousands times so probably at least a million. The 10 031 is the times Touma challenge Othinus or rather it takes 10 031 times of Touma challenging Othinus for Othinus to finally gave up and surrender. So saying Touma live 10 031 times again and again is wrong. Its an understatement on what he have been through.
7) Othinus doesn't really want him dead because of the chances IB being passed on to someone she didn't know or someplace she didn't have knowledge on. Plus Touma can just revive himself as long as he has will to continue on. He has infinite continue as long as he has will and Othinus doesn't really erase him completely. His exploiting the situation where IB is needed to be with him.
8) Othinus doesn't need IB. She just need to know where IB is.
9) Othinus should just barge in with Touma and Will-tan too. Don't care about Index or Biribiri. Okay I'm fine with freeloading index but not biribiri. She will ruin it with biribiri every seconds.

read the fic OTP. Its a great fic.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

All of these are explained in the volume.
1. Yes, it really was destroyed. The black space was real.
2. She recreated the world changing whatever she liked altering the filters of the world.

Correction. The world was never destroyed.

“This world was not pure and untouched to begin with. Christian, Buddhist, Celtic, Indian, Shinto, Incan, Aztec, Greek, Roman…and Norse. The various religions have placed layer after layer of various phases over the world like thin veils or filters. There is heaven, hell, the underworld, the Pure Land, Yomi, the abyss, Mount Olympus, the fairy island, Nirai Kanai, Asgard, and many others. At any rate, the world you have seen so far has been viewed through various colors of cellophane.”

“You haven’t destroyed any of those colored glasses.”

As his vision wavered and he was unsure who he was speaking to, Kamijou managed to keep his mouth moving.

“When it comes down to it, you are a person who creates. It may be filled with malice and it may be similar to representing ‘crushing a house’ as ‘creating a pile of rubble’, but it does not change what you are. You are a person who creates.”

“Call me a god. And what I have done is simple. I have created new filters and placed them over the world so the world appears to have changed. That is why the world appeared changed to you. This is a lot easier than destroying everything and building it back up every time. And your right hand contains the power to level out any foreign elements in the world, so it has difficulty functioning when I change the world itself. …Still, results are everything in the world. In the end, history will record it like this: the Magic God repeatedly destroyed the world and created new ones to make a single boy suffer as much as possible.”

She merely created the illusion of the world being destroyed and recreated but she never destroyed anything. She just added new phases to keep making the world different each time.

[LazyHunter]

I would consider creating a filter for the world consisting on an endless flat black space where only she and Touma remain as destroying the world.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by hamazura

i finished.
ok.
this is actually awesome.
snip

I'm happy to see you liked it. I was sure you'd like seeing Kamijou die again and again.

[allfictions]

To make an analogy, you can compare Othinus adding filters to a painter who has finished a painting. At first, he likes it, and he considers his painting to be his magnum opus, hanging it above his bed so he can see it every morning when he wakes up. However, as the years pass by, he grows to dislike the painting and considers it an eyesore. So he decide to do a new painting, but you see, our hypothetical artist is cheap, he doesn't want to waste money buying a new canvas. So he decides to cover his previous painting with white paint, now having the illusion of a new canvas upon which he can paint anew.

This white painting is the Black World. It looks like a blank canvas and that the previous painting has been erased, but in reality, it is still there, under a layer of white paint.

To take it further, the vain painter keeps getting dissatisfied by every painting he achieves, and continue to cover them with white paint before painting a new one. Before long, he begins to miss his original painting, his first work of art, and would want to see it again. Unfortunately, it is lost under layer and layer of other paintings, and even the painter only has a vague memory of it, which becomes more and more harder to remember every day. He tries to repaint it with the help of his faint memories, but it's never quite like the original. There is always something missing.

And so the painter who was arrogant pays the price for discarding something he didn't even realize was precious to him.

[dniv]

So in NT 8 it mentined that Fenrir is supposed to eat Odin at the battle of Ragnarok.

Does anyone think that might mean Fenrir will kill Othinus in the huge boss rush next volume?

That would make me sad, but I think it may be a possibility considering the legend, and considering he knows things like the fact that Kamijou is a reference point for the world.

For some reason, based on Fenrir's legend I feel like his betrayal might be more plausible than one by Loki...

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by allfictions

To make an analogy, you can compare Othinus adding filters to a painter who has finished a painting. At first, he likes it, and he considers his painting to be his magnum opus, hanging it above his bed so he can see it every morning when he wakes up. However, as the years pass by, he grows to dislike the painting and considers it an eyesore. So he decide to do a new painting, but you see, our hypothetical artist is cheap, he doesn't want to waste money buying a new canvas. So he decides to cover his previous painting with white paint, now having the illusion of a new canvas upon which he can paint anew.

This white painting is the Black World. It looks like a blank canvas and that the previous painting has been erased, but in reality, it is still there, under a layer of white paint.

To take it further, the vain painter keeps getting dissatisfied by every painting he achieves, and continue to cover them with white paint before painting a new one. Before long, he begins to miss his original painting, his first work of art, and would want to see it again. Unfortunately, it is lost under layer and layer of other paintings, and even the painter only has a vague memory of it, which becomes more and more harder to remember every day. He tries to repaint it with the help of his faint memories, but it's never quite like the original. There is always something missing.

And so the painter who was arrogant pay the price of discarding something he didn't even realize was precious to him.

Oohh..that's actually a pretty good metaphor. I like it.

[LG-MAX]

Originally Posted by dniv

So in NT 8 it mentined that Fenrir is supposed to eat Odin at the battle of Ragnarok.

Does anyone think that might mean Fenrir will kill Othinus in the huge boss rush next volume?

That would make me sad, but I think it may be a possibility considering the legend, and considering he knows things like the fact that Kamijou is a reference point for the world.

For some reason, based on Fenrir's legend I feel like his betrayal might be more plausible than one by Loki...

Fenrir is amazing, he showed very little, but have gained a fanboy.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Hiss13

Correction. The world was never destroyed.



She merely created the illusion of the world being destroyed and recreated but she never destroyed anything. She just added new phases to keep making the world different each time.

Base world...no,

the world for all practical purposes? Yes. Virtually overwritten each time.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by hamazura

i
final : so othinus is just lonely-egoistic-little-middle-school-in-her-puberty girl who hope senpai will notice her today? -_-

That's incorrect.

And stupid too.

[hamazura]

Originally Posted by allfictions

That's incorrect.

And stupid too.

nah she is lonely and want someone to understand her. typical middle schooler in puberty