Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu (月が導く異世界道中) [WN]

[The One Above God]

Wow,

Spoiler for reaction to spoilers:

so the "parallel worlds" thing Susano-o and co. mentioned is gonna play a major part in the future, huh.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by The One Above God

Wow,

Spoiler for reaction to spoilers:

so the "parallel worlds" thing Susano-o and co. mentioned is gonna play a major part in the future, huh.

Spoiler:

I kinda had an my suspicions when the fanboy gods started talking about universes and stuff, I hope the author pull it off right I really do. From my experience I haven't liked any story with parallel worlds and time travel from WN's or LN's. Why can't it just be a straight up transported to another world? It's fantasy not sci-fi expand the world, travel and go on adventures and shit there's an entire world to explore.

[The One Above God]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

Spoiler:

I kinda had an my suspicions when the fanboy gods started talking about universes and stuff, I hope the author pull it off right I really do. From my experience I haven't liked any story with parallel worlds and time travel from WN's or LN's. Why can't it just be a straight up transported to another world? It's fantasy not sci-fi expand the world, travel and go on adventures and shit there's an entire world to explore.

Well,

Spoiler for response:

the moment Gods got into the story, the possibility of a parallel world sub plot pretty much got hella big. I'm still not gonna deny that I was blind sided by it though . Also, I hope the author pulls it off too. Other stories just go crazy with the concept when they get introduced into the story.

[Sparteh]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

but there is:
it will be a HUGE ALL TEXT and sorry about grammar mistakes i will read this again tomorrow to try to correct a few ones, but if you like spoiler this is in fact a good one to read.

Spoiler for scene:

if we add the scene of "mio's request" where he was thinking that Mio would ask him to sleep with her and again in his monologue he says that he would go for it: well this truly does not seems to show that will have romance right now in the middle of the novel but at least it points to a ending where they can be together, now both Mio and tomoes already had their spotlight where makoto sees them as woman.
and this shows more than enough: because yes the girls want it and the MC have made his mind to accept it, but in the end the girls itself have not must their courage yet to ask, something that is fair different than most harem-romance novel; where the girls goes after the guy like crazy and the MC is dense without noticing, something that does not happen here, they just need to must their courage to ask, something that can be really hard for a spider who have not done anything but eat without control, and when she finally find someone who "save" her of that destiny, is normal for her to be afraid to destroyer their relationship by throwing herself at him, and in tomoe'ss case she is just keeping it cool because she wants makoto to ask her( desires her) , not the other way around and she is fine keeping her distance and advancing step by step until this happen.
-------------------------------------------spoiler start here------------------------------------

Spoiler for tomoes case where makoro see her as woman.:

at the current arc that is being done in english (delivery eggs - demon king arc); i will give a minor summary of how the events unfold:
on one of makoto's dreamvision/alternative timeline , tomoe kiss him in the mouth , and we have a small monologue about how "that" makoto sees tomoe's as woman and even our makoto (normal timeline) sees her that way too at when they are kissing too.
first let me start saying this :well OK! is a dreamlike-vision/alternative timeline and have not happen in our timeline (yet!) but what is important is the mentality of our makoto at that time, where he truly sees tomoes as woman in the kiss scene , and
second: the chapter with the third dream is the one i like the most so if i remember well is the one with when the demon king is having a banquet for makoto , just after he tells them about keryuon, if anyone want to check, that chapter have up to 1,3k words i believe, where a normal chapter have from 200-300 and a long one up to 400-500, so 1,3k words is really something else for the author, so just search for the biggest chapter of the entire wn so far as i can recall.

ps: i call future/alternative timeline because is the conclusion that makoto achieve at the third dream, but it have been a few days that i read it so i can not remember all the details so i will just write the ones i remember before someone ask.
dream 1 and 2 happens after meeting hibiki and tomoki; dream 3 happen after he tells the demon king that he was the one who took keryuon back , in the middle of his visit to the demons.

Spoiler for dream1:

dream1:makoto sees himself or someone killing hibiki in front of him; the language is really fuzzy at that chapter so i do not remember if is fact makoto killing her or someone else.

Spoiler for dream2:

dream2: seems to be a third person view where makoto(our makoto) sees tomoki in front a desert (not the white desert from sandwave) and by the discussion of it(tomoki x another person) , it seems that tomoki is talking to someone about how they are forced to turn laurel in a complete desert ,mainly killed everyone and destroyed everything.

Spoiler for dream3:

dream3: this is the one with the kiss: and is the most dreamlike-fuzzy reading i ever read in the entire novel but hey, i'm sure of the kiss and is also implied that they have made a lot more things than just kiss each other.
the dream start with makoto seeing himself in third person view, where he is sitting in a park and after some dialogues from him, where he notes to himself that he seems to be older than the current one(we are talking here past young adult age 30 years + at least by the use of the word) , tomoes shows up and start talking about how they had lost Mio already and some minor dialogues and them they KISS, we have some dialogue about what our makoto think about the situation and then tomoes vanish in mist, and bam: our makoto wake up from the dream in a dream (inception), and then the current demon king shows up calling him up to the meeting(but our makoto also notes that he seems to be younger than the current demon king that he have meet, again a difference between timelies, this is important) : and we got to know a few details: first: there is no shiki (mention of him or if he even existed in the first place): second: mio died first and then tomoe, that dream in the park before was the alternative makoto dreaming about when she was alive with him after Mio death, and them the demon king takes makoto to a pedestal where the demon king ask makoto to give a speech (probably to the army) and we have a few dialogues(between makoto and the demonking, before the speech itself) in it about how they are finally going to fight the goodness and how they already lost mio and tomoe (confirmation of dead) and he wake up

Spoiler for a few things to take note in the talk makoto x tomoe(dream waifu).:

that i can remember:
the one who made the first attack was the goodness, and it was a surprise attack.
we also have a sentence where makoto complain to tomoe when he says that he traded "mio" for both heroes ( probably a doubt K.O or something similar).
we also have a minor discussion where makoto complain if he had been stronger maybe them could be alive now, but tomoes denies it saying that he already had the power to fight a god but what he needed at that time was not power but companions>> we also have a minor exploration where tomoe say that her and Mio have been very aggressive with their relationship with makoto( in a good way) and this was her biggest regret because the aggressiveness and desire to monopoly him , created a result where he had less allies, and like i wrote before the biggest reason of the tragedy at that time it seems to be because he had too few allies (people who made a contract with him)in tomoe's opinion.
end: tomoes is already dead at the start of the dream, by the end of it(the dream) is implied that makoto have become so strong and so good with tomoes ability to manipulate dreams , that he have made a copy of her in his dream(waifuu), and that is the start of the " dream inside a dream."

Spoiler for "mentions that i'm not so sure about the chapter because.":

this chapter is so crazy because we have a change of dialogue from makoto old to tomoe to "normal"makoto multiple times but one of the things i got a glimpse but is not so sure is that the order of follower at that timeline after mio is sandwave>>root>>demonking.

Spoiler for continuation of the chapter::

since most will want to know why i call alternative timeline: is because when makoto wake up from the third dream, he calls tomoes and they meet so tomoes can look in his dream and record it so they can study those "strange dreams" of him; but once tomoes goes in(his mind) she could not find anything ; so after some talk where tomoes insist that they are not going to die so easy, makoto goes back to his room and start thinking about the dream and how he thinks that may be some alternative timeline/future vision that shows what will happen if he had made different choices ; he is just not sure about it because in every dream there is things that have happen in our "normal" timeline and things that are not; like for example the mention of shiki at dream 1, they have a mention about new follower that is not tomoe nor mio but they never mention shiki, so something is strange here and "Our" makoto take note of it and we also have a very fuzzy dialogues in the dream that makoto point out, mainly when tomoes shows up, where they talk about arrangements of spells involving souls and so on>> something that could point out that "older" makoto is trying to affect his soul in some way,maybe those visions are the result of his experiments, but we do not have a answer yet, and this is why i call futurevision/alternative timeline, because it can be a future if he keep going in that same way or a simple alternative timeline and he already have more or less escaped that destiny since he already have shiki.

well i took my time to start to read this arc(more than one month) but it seems to be really good.

Spoiler for on a extra but funny said that i want to comment::

the author seems to be really be shipping hibiki x lime; first we have a entire chapter with focus on both of them where it start with a happy mood with hibiki talking about love with lime, the talk goes in and back and the talk end with focus on hibiki's party members love for her , where hibiki says that if he ever confess she would decline, the second part of the chapter we have lime helping hibiki in some problems about chiya and as payment lime makes hibiki promise to take him to a dinner-date and if this was not enough as ship, at the end of the chapter we have a "monologue" by the narrator where it incites the relationship saying that will have great impact in her and so on but the result will only show in the future.

well it took me almost 1 hour and half to write this and correct the mistakes i saw, i will re read tomorrow to re check because is already 6am here, so until later.

How did all of this affect Makoto's later way of thinking?

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by The One Above God

Well,

Spoiler for response:

the moment Gods got into the story, the possibility of a parallel world sub plot pretty much got hella big. I'm still not gonna deny that I was blind sided by it though . Also, I hope the author pulls it off too. Other stories just go crazy with the concept when they get introduced into the story.

you really need to keep a eye on those gods, after all you are not the one above them? hahahah, i could not resist to comment on it, since you are talking about gods and so on.

Originally Posted by The One Above God

Wow,

Spoiler for reaction to spoilers:

so the "parallel worlds" thing Susano-o and co. mentioned is gonna play a major part in the future, huh.

now with a serious answer:
seems to be; the author have build a lot with those dreams because at the first one, was something so shallow in one chapter (dream1) that we do not have a even proper introduction in it, he just throw at us, but then it happens again and again and the third one have a lot of exposure from makoto's emotions and it is really well done if we compare with normal chapters so far because we have a very clear transaction of emotion from makoto's narrative through the dream from the start to the end since he is seeing the "dream inside dream" in a third person perspective it goes like >>

Spoiler for ( no interest in it ):

at the start of the third dream :"hell this have happen again, well let's be over with it fast

">>

Spoiler for (confusion):

hey! what have happen to Mio; where is Shiki?

>>>

Spoiler for (happiness):

What; i'm kissing tomoe, well tomoe is really beautiful and those moves, it seems that i'm accustomed to do it, is like something very natural for us to do.....

>>>>

Spoiler for (rage):

WTF DUDE, how could you let mio and tomoe die, tf are you doing so far, this is not worth

<<< those emotions have really show in the narrative. many of the things i have wrote we only have one sentence about it and many things is just implied by the talk of old makoto x tomoe ,so many things we take from context is a really complex chapter for me that do not have a complete grasp of JP, i had to read some sentences multiple times but i believe i got most of it .
i do not know if everyone have read mushoko tensei but it gave me a a lot of the diary chapters from mushoko tensei vibes, really similar in this aspect that both MC's seems to have made mistakes in their live and are trying to correct it in some way but so far the mushoko one seems to be done better because it had a more direct approach of problem >> solution and when we are dealing with complex mechanics like alternative timeline-timetravel and so on, i believe that a direct approach is always better because it tries to simplified something that is already very complex and this help us as reader better grasp what is the author intention but with tsukai we just do not have enough information of how everything will play out yet since the author is giving information piece by piece and too fragmented so it will be a hell to glue everything together later on.

Originally Posted by Sparteh

How did all of this affect Makoto's later way of thinking?

i'm not done with the arc yet, so i can not answer this yet, he seems to be really upset at first but once tomoes assures him that they would not die so easy he have calmed down but he is in the middle of his visit in the chapter i'm reading because the next chapter after the dream, the author skip to limie x hibiki night date in laurel and so on, them they are back to makoto visits, but once i'm done with it i can answer.
but the shock of him having a relationship with tomoe's in that "timeline" seems to really fade once he discover that both of them are dead, so the rage and worry about them dying have trample the emotion of from the kiss so far, but once i read ahead the author may come back to explore it

[Hiro Hayase]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

Spoiler for Quote:

but there is:
it will be a HUGE ALL TEXT and sorry about grammar mistakes i will read this again tomorrow to try to correct a few ones, but if you like spoiler this is in fact a good one to read.

Spoiler for scene:

if we add the scene of "mio's request" where he was thinking that Mio would ask him to sleep with her and again in his monologue he says that he would go for it: well this truly does not seems to show that will have romance right now in the middle of the novel but at least it points to a ending where they can be together, now both Mio and tomoes already had their spotlight where makoto sees them as woman.
and this shows more than enough: because yes the girls want it and the MC have made his mind to accept it, but in the end the girls itself have not must their courage yet to ask, something that is fair different than most harem-romance novel; where the girls goes after the guy like crazy and the MC is dense without noticing, something that does not happen here, they just need to must their courage to ask, something that can be really hard for a spider who have not done anything but eat without control, and when she finally find someone who "save" her of that destiny, is normal for her to be afraid to destroyer their relationship by throwing herself at him, and in tomoe'ss case she is just keeping it cool because she wants makoto to ask her( desires her) , not the other way around and she is fine keeping her distance and advancing step by step until this happen.
-------------------------------------------spoiler start here------------------------------------

Spoiler for tomoes case where makoro see her as woman.:

at the current arc that is being done in english (delivery eggs - demon king arc); i will give a minor summary of how the events unfold:
on one of makoto's dreamvision/alternative timeline , tomoe kiss him in the mouth , and we have a small monologue about how "that" makoto sees tomoe's as woman and even our makoto (normal timeline) sees her that way too at when they are kissing too.
first let me start saying this :well OK! is a dreamlike-vision/alternative timeline and have not happen in our timeline (yet!) but what is important is the mentality of our makoto at that time, where he truly sees tomoes as woman in the kiss scene , and
second: the chapter with the third dream is the one i like the most so if i remember well is the one with when the demon king is having a banquet for makoto , just after he tells them about keryuon, if anyone want to check, that chapter have up to 1,3k words i believe, where a normal chapter have from 200-300 and a long one up to 400-500, so 1,3k words is really something else for the author, so just search for the biggest chapter of the entire wn so far as i can recall.

ps: i call future/alternative timeline because is the conclusion that makoto achieve at the third dream, but it have been a few days that i read it so i can not remember all the details so i will just write the ones i remember before someone ask.
dream 1 and 2 happens after meeting hibiki and tomoki; dream 3 happen after he tells the demon king that he was the one who took keryuon back , in the middle of his visit to the demons.

Spoiler for dream1:

dream1:makoto sees himself or someone killing hibiki in front of him; the language is really fuzzy at that chapter so i do not remember if is fact makoto killing her or someone else.

Spoiler for dream2:

dream2: seems to be a third person view where makoto(our makoto) sees tomoki in front a desert (not the white desert from sandwave) and by the discussion of it(tomoki x another person) , it seems that tomoki is talking to someone about how they are forced to turn laurel in a complete desert ,mainly killed everyone and destroyed everything.

Spoiler for dream3:

dream3: this is the one with the kiss: and is the most dreamlike-fuzzy reading i ever read in the entire novel but hey, i'm sure of the kiss and is also implied that they have made a lot more things than just kiss each other.
the dream start with makoto seeing himself in third person view, where he is sitting in a park and after some dialogues from him, where he notes to himself that he seems to be older than the current one(we are talking here past young adult age 30 years + at least by the use of the word) , tomoes shows up and start talking about how they had lost Mio already and some minor dialogues and them they KISS, we have some dialogue about what our makoto think about the situation and then tomoes vanish in mist, and bam: our makoto wake up from the dream in a dream (inception), and then the current demon king shows up calling him up to the meeting(but our makoto also notes that he seems to be younger than the current demon king that he have meet, again a difference between timelies, this is important) : and we got to know a few details: first: there is no shiki (mention of him or if he even existed in the first place): second: mio died first and then tomoe, that dream in the park before was the alternative makoto dreaming about when she was alive with him after Mio death, and them the demon king takes makoto to a pedestal where the demon king ask makoto to give a speech (probably to the army) and we have a few dialogues(between makoto and the demonking, before the speech itself) in it about how they are finally going to fight the goodness and how they already lost mio and tomoe (confirmation of dead) and he wake up

Spoiler for a few things to take note in the talk makoto x tomoe(dream waifu).:

that i can remember:
the one who made the first attack was the goodness, and it was a surprise attack.
we also have a sentence where makoto complain to tomoe when he says that he traded "mio" for both heroes ( probably a doubt K.O or something similar).
we also have a minor discussion where makoto complain if he had been stronger maybe them could be alive now, but tomoes denies it saying that he already had the power to fight a god but what he needed at that time was not power but companions>> we also have a minor exploration where tomoe say that her and Mio have been very aggressive with their relationship with makoto( in a good way) and this was her biggest regret because the aggressiveness and desire to monopoly him , created a result where he had less allies, and like i wrote before the biggest reason of the tragedy at that time it seems to be because he had too few allies (people who made a contract with him)in tomoe's opinion.
end: tomoes is already dead at the start of the dream, by the end of it(the dream) is implied that makoto have become so strong and so good with tomoes ability to manipulate dreams , that he have made a copy of her in his dream(waifuu), and that is the start of the " dream inside a dream."

Spoiler for "mentions that i'm not so sure about the chapter because.":

this chapter is so crazy because we have a change of dialogue from makoto old to tomoe to "normal"makoto multiple times but one of the things i got a glimpse but is not so sure is that the order of follower at that timeline after mio is sandwave>>root>>demonking.

Spoiler for continuation of the chapter::

since most will want to know why i call alternative timeline: is because when makoto wake up from the third dream, he calls tomoes and they meet so tomoes can look in his dream and record it so they can study those "strange dreams" of him; but once tomoes goes in(his mind) she could not find anything ; so after some talk where tomoes insist that they are not going to die so easy, makoto goes back to his room and start thinking about the dream and how he thinks that may be some alternative timeline/future vision that shows what will happen if he had made different choices ; he is just not sure about it because in every dream there is things that have happen in our "normal" timeline and things that are not; like for example the mention of shiki at dream 1, they have a mention about new follower that is not tomoe nor mio but they never mention shiki, so something is strange here and "Our" makoto take note of it and we also have a very fuzzy dialogues in the dream that makoto point out, mainly when tomoes shows up, where they talk about arrangements of spells involving souls and so on>> something that could point out that "older" makoto is trying to affect his soul in some way,maybe those visions are the result of his experiments, but we do not have a answer yet, and this is why i call futurevision/alternative timeline, because it can be a future if he keep going in that same way or a simple alternative timeline and he already have more or less escaped that destiny since he already have shiki.

well i took my time to start to read this arc(more than one month) but it seems to be really good.

Spoiler for on a extra but funny said that i want to comment::

the author seems to be really be shipping hibiki x lime; first we have a entire chapter with focus on both of them where it start with a happy mood with hibiki talking about love with lime, the talk goes in and back and the talk end with focus on hibiki's party members love for her , where hibiki says that if he ever confess she would decline, the second part of the chapter we have lime helping hibiki in some problems about chiya and as payment lime makes hibiki promise to take him to a dinner-date and if this was not enough as ship, at the end of the chapter we have a "monologue" by the narrator where it incites the relationship saying that will have great impact in her and so on but the result will only show in the future.

well it took me almost 1 hour and half to write this and correct the mistakes i saw, i will re read tomorrow to re check because is already 6am here, so until later.

Thanks for your hard work. I want to believe that a Makoto from a different timeline is using space-time techniques to give insight to the current Makoto to choose the best options. What I get out of the dreams is a few things:

1. He needs to save Lorel Union from Tomoki
2. Establish a cooperative relationship with Demonkind, Sandwave, and Root. Plus gain new followers
3. Become much stronger than ever before
4. Find a way to ensnare Hibiki without killing her (Get Lime to take her out on a date is an option)
5. Go the harem route. Seriously. There is no escape.

But those timelines are really different since the current Makoto met the three war gods and Shiki, then the fourth follower in the future. He's definitely going to be even more overprotective though.

Rimuru from Slime Tensei did something similar.

Spoiler for Major spoiler for Slime Tensei ending too! You have been warned.:

In another timeline, Rimuru became a great demon lord but he lost everything that he cherished, so he fiddles with the past (sending a hero back to the past to trigger events, make coincidences in his favor, lead the various actors in the past by the nose all using Raphael-sensei to calculate everything).

[The One Above God]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

you really need to keep a eye on those gods, after all you are not the one above them? hahahah, i could not resist to comment on it, since you are talking about gods and so on.

Touché .

Btw thanks for the info. Anyway, from what I've understood so far, maybe the author is trying to make it less of an issue for now and would probably get back to it in a future arc. Of course, unless, this event has some big lasting effects on the get-go.

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

Thanks for your hard work. I want to believe that a Makoto from a different timeline is using space-time techniques to give insight to the current Makoto to choose the best options. What I get out of the dreams is a few things:

1. He needs to save Lorel Union from Tomoki
2. Establish a cooperative relationship with Demonkind, Sandwave, and Root. Plus gain new followers
3. Become much stronger than ever before
4. Find a way to ensnare Hibiki without killing her (Get Lime to take her out on a date is an option)
5. Go the harem route. Seriously. There is no escape.

But those timelines are really different since the current Makoto met the three war gods and Shiki, then the fourth follower in the future.

Rimuru from Slime Tensei did something similar.

Spoiler for Major spoiler for Slime Tensei ending too! You have been warned.:

In another timeline, Rimuru became a great demon lord but he lost everything that he cherished, so he fiddles with the past (sending a hero back to the past to trigger events, make coincidences in his favor, lead the various actors in the past by the nose all using Raphael-sensei to calculate everything).

for now it can be: there is two option, the first one clearly is like you said, is makoto from future-alternative timeline doing things but one thing i can not seem to shake of my head, that it may be bug doing this to mess with his head, even more since it was bug who gave the first attack in that timeline, this could be seen as something similar as bug also doing the first move; other character that we can not discard as well is that deity who gives power to people who crossed world, tomoki and hibiki already got their but makoto have not yet, it is also something to keep in mind because everything is too fragmented so far for us to know but a few things that i understand that is very important:
SHIKI: shiki truly seems to be the definitive answer so far, because is the only one of the main cast that we have not even a mention and at the dream3 we are already pretty far on the scale of the entire events for shiki have not been show yet.
and yes,the alternative timeline/future vision clearly are not the same as the current one, hell it is not even called "alternative timeline/future vision i was the one calling it because it seems to be but it have not been confirmed by the novel yet it can be anything but it is a fact that is not the same because there is no Shiki, this is mainly the conclusion that makoto had, but this does not mean that they could not mix up and the events happen in the same way with mio-tomoe dying as well after all a ripple in the past(shiki showing up) could not change the future events, this is something that happen often with timelines-future vision novels, it needs multiples events to not end with the "bad end".
a few more things:

Spoiler for things :

sandwave is a woman as well and very old one but of course it have the body of a adult woman but like we know once a superior dragon dies it will be reborn, but sandwave seems to be alive for a very long time, a very very very long time.
the pact with sandwave root and demonking in the alternative timeline seems to happen after mio dies, the author does not write this but by the entire conversation it seems to be, and one of the things the push this even more is that the demon king who have the pact is not the one who makoto meet at his visit.
Hibiki is killed in dream1: and seems to be one of the first death, but since we do not have a description about who is killing her, just that it seems to be someone from team makoto because of the way that makoto is describing the narrative.
dream2 is also something to keep in mind: the narrative of tomoki x another person , is seen to be very different from the tomoki we know, because we can feel two types of emotions by the dialogue, the first one is remorse and the second is cowardice (i do not even know if that word exist, but it was something like he was trying to convince himself that he had no other choice doing what they did) and this is important because the current tomoki from "normal" timeline would never act like that, even more after the beat down done by makoto.
Power: it pretty clear from tomoe (dream waifu) that what makoto needs to win is not power, he already had it in that timeline more than enough, he needs something more, tomoes implies it to be allies(followers), but who knows.
hell: i have never saw the author pushing a ship so hard like hibiki x lime, at least i think so, maybe when the translation get to this chapter it will cleary up my doubts but by the choice of words and everything else in the scene that they are together , it seems to be, even if they only had one chapter chapter together, it was without doubt a shipping chapter, this is my opinion i no one will change it, HAHAHAH, fuck we can even point out when lime start to think of hibiki something different (not love, just something that he never thought about her before) and it is when she put her bikini armor to fight, HAHA.

Originally Posted by The One Above God

Touché .

Btw thanks for the info. Anyway, from what I've understood so far, maybe the author is trying to make it less of an issue for now and would probably get back to it in a future arc. Of course, unless, this event has some big lasting effects on the get-go.

it can be, after i read the dream3chapter i was so hyped for the next that i went ahead and read it, but it was hibiki x lime and the next as well, so my hype went away and i came here to write that post at 4 am , and it too me almost two hours and after that i went to sleep right now i'm playing tos, so i will just go back to read it at night , and with luck i will have more information about if the author is skipping this from now or if he will give more clues.

[Hiro Hayase]

Would the BUG really be able to do that with the collar set up by Athena? It might be the deity that gave some power to Hibiki and Tomoki as he seems to like chaos, but he doesn't seem like the type to take the initiative and is more like a NEET.

The future-timeline Makoto could also be telling current Makoto to get rid of the people's belief in the goddess to weaken her instead of fighting her directly.

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

Would the BUG really be able to do that with the collar set up by Athena? It might be the deity that gave some power to Hibiki and Tomoki as he seems to like chaos, but he doesn't seem like the type to take the initiative and is more like a NEET.

Is pretty clear that the collar is more a monitoring device than a real shackle, the gods mentions to makoto to not destroyer it because if he did they would simple not be able to keep a eye on her, resulting in her going all out against him.
now i have no basis for this, but for me is clearly that given time and since we are talking here about gods , even more since bug seems to have connection about gods of love, messing with someone head with dreams vision would use so little power that it seems to be plausible for me, hell like i said this is only my opinion i do not really have facts to supp it right now, but once we take in consideration maybe creating those visions would so little power that would not even show up with the collar, and also let's be real : the gods, mainly athena want the bug to do something so they can come to this world again and hang out with makoto, hahha. the gods in this novel are a bunch of neets who does not want to work, and in every situation where they can skip work they will do so.
this is my basis to not discard Bug yet, since if we can take anything from the vision is that bug is more than it seems, we are giving her too little credit.

about that deity, she-he does not seems to take initiative but the main reason i could not discard him is his scene with hibiki; remember that he was pushing the time-travel/world travel related power to her? now if we look this at another angle, this would fit perfect in our current scenery, since old makoto have made some decisions who caused the dead of tomoe-mio and almost everyone of asora in the war against bug, so a having a time travel power or something similar would really help to correct his mistakes and this is what we are seeing with those dreams , this would simple connect in so many levels, and for that to truly happen makoto also need to select a time-travel or similar power right now and this is why i have not put him to rest too.

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

The future-timeline Makoto could also be telling current Makoto to get rid of the people's belief in the goddess to weaken her instead of fighting her directly.

this is something very important at the start of the novel but not so much anymore and because of that i could not complete agree with you and the reason for that is on the demon capital arc : at limia x hibiki chapter we have a very good amount of exposure about laurel, where their faith mainly focus on the spirits-deity (like elementais, wind-fire and so on, do not remember the exact world that the author uses but i believe you get what i'm trying to say. ) but of course they also believe in the goddess in a secondary form since them go by something similar as spirits are more or less created by the goddess so we also worship her, but the main focus is clearly the spirits-elementals, and in the second dream laurel seems to be destroyed by tomoki and someone else, so why would the goddess send him to destroyer them? it does not make sense and we only have one connection that is that hibiki died in laurel in the dream1, so laurel clearly have a important aspect in it but the religion there also focus on the goddess in some form, so makes no sense from the goddess to destroy them.
what i want to say is, belief seems to be very important to the gods but are not related in a power type scenery that is the main concern of makoto's team , belief seems to affect the god more in a social standing position in the god plane than their fighting power, and this is why she could have send tomoki to destroyer laurel that would result in her losing believers since this would not direct effect her strength.

the only good side i can see for makoto to trying to take the goddess believe away more than he is already trying with keryuon for example is the resolution of the war, but even this is not possible anymore because after we got to the demon capital arc we got a very good amount of exposure, mainly about the reason of the demons doing war and in the end they are already in a path without return, because for the demons going back means complete extinction of their race, they are living in a very fuckedup place, thing about the north pole and so on.
we have a very good scene that shows this: where the demon lord ask makoto what he would have done if he was the demon king besides going to war; makoto answers that that the demons clearly had a superior technology than the hyumans and he would use those technology to try to change the environment where they live so there is no need to go to war and that scene the demon king smiles to him but then we have makoto doing a monologue of how he looks sad/strange even smiling and again is implied that they already have tried that but failed, the only option is to taken new land and to do so means war.
so even removing the goddess believe at this point would not result in anything for the world nor for makoto and the hyuman side is not any better anymore: hibiki is blind by revenge, she can not even see a demon that she is already killing; and tomoki thinks that he is some type of MC and the world belongs to him and him alone but is too dumb to see the mastermind behind him that is lily .

man, i have made more than 20 edits in this, i really need to keep it clean and short, but is hard, even more when i'm playing and writing , something is really wrong with me .

[Hiro Hayase]

Ohh... I see where you're going with this now. Since that deity offered the time travel power to Hibiki its probable that Makoto in another timeline accepted that power, hence the current Makoto is having these sorts of dreams of alternate timelines. It's an open possibility I guess.

Hmm... has there been another instance where the BUG has used dreams to interfere with someone? I'm not really sold on that idea that its her doing.

Lorel Union is a unique place plenty of hidden secrets. They have reincarntors and their descendants there, demonkind have sent spies to infiltrate deeply, and those elemental spirits. Those spirits were mentioned in passing by either Root or Tomoe in one of their POV chapters too. The BUG does view the elemental spirits (seirei) as hindrances like the dragons.

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

Ohh... I see where you're going with this now. Since that deity offered the time travel power to Hibiki its probable that Makoto in another timeline accepted that power, hence the current Makoto is having these sorts of dreams of alternate timelines. It's an open possibility I guess.

yeah exact that, and this is why i could not discard him.

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

Hmm... has there been another instance where the BUG has used dreams to interfere with someone? I'm not really sold on that idea that its her doing.

not that i can recall, but is just a guess that can be done, after all if this is in fact trap there is not many players who could pull it off besides her, and what makes me put her in is simple because in that dream, it was told that her who made the first move, not makoto, this shows a lot .

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

Lorel Union is a unique place plenty of hidden secrets. They have reincarntors and their descendants there, demonkind have sent spies to infiltrate deeply, and those elemental spirits. Those spirits were mentioned in passing by either Root or Tomoe in one of their POV chapters too. The BUG does view the elemental spirits (seirei) as hindrances like the dragons.

A side note, i do not seem to recall if they have in fact reincarnators in the novel , it seems that they have in fact contact people or have meet some humans in the long history of their country,but they are world traveler not reincarnators i think, at least i do not remember anything about it, maybe you have made a mistake in the term and was trying to say "world travaler" not "reincarnators."
about seirei: Bug does not like them because they are already at the world before bug's came to take care of it , but what i have wrote was like the faith works in laurel, probably we are having some type of manipulation of information done by Bug in her long history of manipulation of hyumans , where for the Hyumans she is the ultimate creator everything, but she could not erase the complete existence of the seireis so probably she have made up the lie like i wrote before but is not that i was implying that she have made them but was like it seems that laurel faith works at that point in the history.

[Firestar2471]

In case it hasn't been mentioned

new chapter out.

[Ruki0089]

The story... getting heavier....

[Hokoga]

Can somebody tell me the names of the Arcs and the chapters they start on? Because google translate isn't being very helpful.

[Riz]

...such way too many words...
imma need more times for readin em al... 'A'

[m4rc0s]

Originally Posted by Hokoga

Can somebody tell me the names of the Arcs and the chapters they start on? Because google translate isn't being very helpful.

四章　クズノハ漫遊編 this is the name of the current arc being done in english.
and i believe that they are at 172 晴天の彼女.
i can not give you the name of all the others because i would need to change my wayback machine, and it takes a little time to put everything else in order again, so sorry.
on a side note: OMG the root atk at the capital chapter have 1913 words, i will say it again for those who do not know how long is it: chapter 172 that have been done recent in English is a normal chapter for tsukai, and it have 242 words.
hell the root atk chapter have 1913 words but do not expect much, is a really boring chapter, too many words and too little action.


edit: 173 is out as well in english

[bakato]

Six more chapters!

[Ruki0089]

6 more chapter to go... and we will see someone got nice bro fist...

[m4rc0s]

well, the beat down is so lacking in my opinion , since the author could have at least give us a little more description about everything but since it is a true beat down, there is not much to write i think, but i must say that knowing the spoiler about the beat down makes the entire chapter even better because since we know what will happen, the entire the discussion and the arrogance that tomoki shows before being beat up is without doubt the best thing about the entire scene , since for me is more about having his pride crushed.
the entire scene only make me feel sad about the tank girl , we have a glimpse about her later and she seems to be such a cute and adorable girl , too bad that she have fallen in the hands of tomoki.
on a side note: dream4 happens on chapter 192 i think:

Spoiler for dream4:

the 大黒天(god of fortune- do not remember his name in English) ; shows up in the dream after makoto almost lose his mind, and mainly affirm that dream-vision is some type of alternative timeline, more precise: makoto ask him if it is fact some type of other world live of his, and he says "that it is and it is not" then he brush it off, saying that makoto would not understand even if he explain but then he assures him to keep living his live freely because in the moment that makoto fought against root's breath atk , he did something special that i will not spoil, and that was a turning point for the current makoto where the changes of that future he had in the dreams to happen have decreased a lot so he should just forget about them.
reason for makoto losing his mind: this dream is basically a infuse of emotions in makoto>>>the dream start and there is no one , but makoto is hearing a voice, that voice is going crazy in his speech, saying that will kill everyone, and is the goddess fault and so on, mainly a hate-crazy speech and the emotions that the voice seems to be feeling is transferred/have influence in makoto.