High School DxD Light Novel - DX.5 (Short Story Collection)

[dnb]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Even in volume 16 in his if I'm not mistaken correct me if I'm wrong it's already been implied or stated by Draig that Crom Cruach achieved Heavenly Dragon class . And Vali was more less comparable to Albion in his prime in his DxD L while he's below Crom in terms of raw power and defence. Draig can fight on par with Crom in their fight due to his abilities Boost and Penetrate.

Vol 16:

While everyone is feeling pressured by the man clad in black, Ddraig speaks to me from within me.
[Of course he’s on a different level to all of you. He is someone that none of you can currently handle.]
……Ddraig, you know him?
[Yeah, I knew it the moment I saw him even though he has the form of a human. —The Crescent Circle Dragon, Crom Cruach. The Dragon that was said to be the strongest among all the Evil Dragons.]
—!?
……For real? So that is……one of the strongest Evil Dragons, Crom Cruach……!
I gasp. Since I fought the Evil Dragon Grendel, I can tell that the aura around that man is even more dangerous than that crazy Dragon……!
[Do not fight him at all costs. Even I thought you could fight the majority of enemies since you are still growing……but he’s a different story.]

Vol 20: Crom's dragon form

As I flew in the air — I was almost stopped by Crom Cruach’s sudden move. No, I was certainly distracted in that moment. …Like this, it was the third time since Tannin-ossan and Fafnir’s Outrage. ……Damn it, damn it! I wholeheartedly regretted trying to pursue Crom Cruach at home. Although my parents and Ophis had been exposed to danger, I…I really was too stupid!
[That guy is a dragon that has been watching the human world for a long time.]
As I was reflecting, Ddraig said that to me.
[—Partner, you definitely can’t forget Crom Cruach’s appearance just now. That is the ultimate form of an Evil Dragon who has single-mindedly pursued power. —Well, what is borrowed will be returned.]
…Yes. Exactly! There are a lot of dragons who are worth learning from —. That’s why I definitely have to become the strongest and greatest dragon — to become the Sekiryuutei! At that time, I’ll definitely surpass Crom Cruach —.

Power is: Raw power (brute force) + Defence + Speed + Abilities (born with them or created, or magic you learn).
You treat abilities like diseases, Cao Cao has only abilities and his talent, his raw power and defence are crap yet he can fight a Maou Class with insane raw power and defence, Sairaorg rings a bell?
Also from vol 12, power can be calculated, for example, Crom could be Raw power 10 Defence 10 Speed 8 Abilities 1 total 29, Ddraig can be Raw power 8 Defence 8 Speed 8 Abilities 5 total 29; overall equal, one is better in a field than other, but in the end, both have the same chances of winning, the one that makes one or more mistakes firs loses.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by dnb

Vol 16:

Vol 20: Crom's dragon form

Power is: Raw power (brute force) + Defence + Speed + Abilities (born with them or created, or magic you learn).
You treat abilities like diseases, Cao Cao has only abilities and his talent, his raw power and defence are crap yet he can fight a Maou Class with insane raw power and defence, Sairaorg rings a bell?
Also from vol 12, power can be calculated, for example, Crom could be Raw power 10 Defence 10 Speed 8 Abilities 1 total 29, Ddraig can be Raw power 8 Defence 8 Speed 8 Abilities 5 total 29; overall equal, one is better in a field than other, but in the end, both have the same chances of winning, the one that makes one or more mistakes firs loses.

Vol16, issei/Vali vs Crom.

[But, partner. He simply has damage to that degree with no enhancement at all. Despite the fact that you are in your crimson armour form. He sneaked into the Human world and the Underworld even after Albion and I were sealed into the Sacred Gears to continue training himself. To be honest, I can’t actually calculate how strong he is now. He hasn’t revived after being destroyed, and continued to live and train himself in this era. There is a chance that he has reached the Heavenly Dragon class. ……So it isn’t wise to battle him now.]

May be truth, except that Crom with an arm broken was superior than Ddraig? The so special Ddraig’s abilities could not work so good to cover the difference.

Boost was not enough to cover the difference in the normal attacks as punches or with the flames. Only with Penetrate the aura’s attacks could damage him but Crom started to avoid those infused with It. Literally Penetrate was the secret cart to have an advantage to compete with Crom, even being inferior. Only the fight hand to hand was the solution to compete equally.

[dnb]

Crom had his wrist broken; Crom's raw power is above, so yes, Ddraig is at a disadvantage, he almost lost his conscience and had one arm broken because he made mistakes; the mistake is engaging in a hand to hand combat with someone more powerful, but Crom had to avoid Ddraig because if he missed he could have been K.O. by Ddraig, penetrate made Ddraig capable of giving Crom internal damage and end the match; like I said the one making the mistake first would lose.
Issei made the mistake of letting Kiba attack him and he got stabbed, if Kiba was a bit stronger he could have cut of Issei arm, and that was a God class/HD vs a near Maou Class or above Ultimate Class fight, though.

[godz]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

the difference is that mahabali weapons do their thing just whit any slash, crom on the other hand not only did not do something comparable, he did not even do it as casually as you implied. its like comparing xenovia swinging durandal to issei crimson blaster, one requires charging, the other doesn't and we saw what happened when mahabali did an actual charged attack. and vali laughing means nothing, vali was laughing because of his battle maniac boner, not because he found crom attack laughable, he was excited that crom was stronger than he expected. also albion outright states that in destructive power crom was above him

not really, mahabali was seen fighting on-screen a total of one time, that single battle is the only one where we can take reference of how strong he is. the thing whit erebus on the other hand was completely inconsistent whit issei current power-level, we had seen issei in a much harder fight (against vidar) and he was not nearly as tired as after erebus, he was about to "pass out" after fighting erebus despite the fight being shorter than the one against vidar and receiving even less damage from a weaker god, and even then he somehow not only does not lose his DxD form but he proceeds to use an even more stamina-intensive form against tartarus. so either issei suddenly went down a few levels or he was exaggerating his tiredness.

put shorter, mahabali fought a single time on-screen so it cannot be "inconsistent" when there is nothing else to compare to, while erebus fight can be directly compared to something else and one can easily see the inconsistency.

and yes ishibumi might give indra the nerf hammer like did whit baalberith but that is besides the point, until it happens it cant be counted. and even then it depends on how it happens since we saw baalberith vs sairaorg and even if it did happen it does not make it any less nonsensical.

I can agree with several points, but I reaffirm that the level they give Mahabali above guys like Viddar BxB, Hades, Crom Cruach, Ddraig, Albion and Crom Cruach is over the top for a guy who only had two fights, one where he was one punching bag from baalberith and the other where he had a shonen moment against indra.

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Mainly @saurerking said what I wanted to write...However even if he was getting tired, from the consume of aura and damages received, but how is relevant?

Mahabali was realising instantly an infinity blaster from each sword without charge, that is how you fire a normal attack as for issei with Dragon shots ecc. As for AxA who its casual attacks are more infinity blaster or for you issei was putting all his power?
As for even him was extremely tired at the end.

Crom Cruach covered his fist of an incredible quantity of energy compressed, if he can make casual attacks of such level, with 2 punches would have defeated Vali or would have described.

Again with this story of Vali? I want the citation of Issei who said Vali’s attacks were powerful as infinity blaster, as for the fact that if it was true Nezha would have been injured seriously and would have destroyed the touki’s rings.
Furthermore even the quantity of damage was different.

Even AxA or Shooting star or Balor Rias, Vasco can destroy the field, so their power is equal? This motivation is not valid.

The problem is Mahabali fought only one time, while with Erebus there are other fights of Issei P DxD to say was incoherent, when he fought Vidar without those damages. Otherwise now I will say Sairaorg is a super devil stronger than Issei and Vali with the potential to defeat Ophis having defeated Balberith.

You cannot take sairaorg as an example when if you read shin dxd 4, and where the narration was clear that baalberith was much weaker for imitating the oppai dragon ... very different than in shin dxd 3 nothing establishes that issei is weakened (Unless that Yasaka left him so hot that he couldn't fight well), and in the context it is seen that Erebus hurt Issei in 1 vs 1 and that Tartarus endured the attack of AxA that had this power, but I don't see either of them being placed in the top 10 which is very different from what happens with mahabali ... favoritism?

All muzzles were facing Tartarus. And then, a powerful voice echoed.

[Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

[Revelation All-Range Blaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

From muzzles all over the body, countless shots of extreme auras were fired towards Tartarus!

"—Like I’ll let you.”

Defensive magic circles formed at the end of Tartarus's arms. Those magic circles got rained by Ryuuteimaru's aura shot — Revelation Blaster! Tartarus's magic circles were pierced as if they were made out of paper and the bombardment fired by Ryuuteimaru hit almost the entirety of the eyeball-filled sphere! Overflowing bombardment hit the ground, and at that moment — it created a huge explosion that easily changed the terrain! No, it didn't end with just that, it made the space itself tremble! Tartarus, who took the Revelation Blaster head-on, seemed to have taken a huge amount of damage, with almost half of the sphere being blown away! —! N-No, wait a minute! Wait a second! Didn’t the attack just now almost become a decisive blow!? It was still just the first shot, you know!? I was greatly surprised by this result! ...Wh-What the hell! Just how many ∞ Blasters combined was that!? And yet, I was limiting the output! Yasaka-san saw the result of my shots and said.

[Ku...! What quantity! With this much power, the pseudo-space will not last!]

I-Indeed! At this rate, it looked like this space would reach its limit at once due to Ryuuteimaru's attacks! Tartarus, who had half its body blown up, regenerated his body and stared at me. His voice changed completely and the tone was — from someone cornered.

[...You can shoot so many shots and with such force...!? Demonic dragon who manifested the power of infinity… and the dreams... no, who was endowed with the power of Ophis and Great Red...!!]

His fighting spirit had not been shaken, huh! So, I had no choice but to weaken those shots a little more, and then use them again!

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

I can agree with several points, but I reaffirm that the level they give Mahabali above guys like Viddar BxB, Hades, Crom Cruach, Ddraig, Albion and Crom Cruach is over the top for a guy who only had two fights, one where he was one punching bag from baalberith and the other where he had a shonen moment against indra.



You cannot take sairaorg as an example when if you read shin dxd 4, and where the narration was clear that baalberith was much weaker for imitating the oppai dragon ... very different than in shin dxd 3 nothing establishes that issei is weakened (Unless that Yasaka left him so hot that he couldn't fight well), and in the context it is seen that Erebus hurt Issei in 1 vs 1 and that Tartarus endured the attack of AxA that had this power, but I don't see either of them being placed in the top 10 which is very different from what happens with mahabali ... favoritism?

All muzzles were facing Tartarus. And then, a powerful voice echoed.

[Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

[Revelation All-Range Blaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

From muzzles all over the body, countless shots of extreme auras were fired towards Tartarus!

"—Like I’ll let you.”

Defensive magic circles formed at the end of Tartarus's arms. Those magic circles got rained by Ryuuteimaru's aura shot — Revelation Blaster! Tartarus's magic circles were pierced as if they were made out of paper and the bombardment fired by Ryuuteimaru hit almost the entirety of the eyeball-filled sphere! Overflowing bombardment hit the ground, and at that moment — it created a huge explosion that easily changed the terrain! No, it didn't end with just that, it made the space itself tremble! Tartarus, who took the Revelation Blaster head-on, seemed to have taken a huge amount of damage, with almost half of the sphere being blown away! —! N-No, wait a minute! Wait a second! DidnÂ’t the attack just now almost become a decisive blow!? It was still just the first shot, you know!? I was greatly surprised by this result! ...Wh-What the hell! Just how many ∞ Blasters combined was that!? And yet, I was limiting the output! Yasaka-san saw the result of my shots and said.

[Ku...! What quantity! With this much power, the pseudo-space will not last!]

I-Indeed! At this rate, it looked like this space would reach its limit at once due to Ryuuteimaru's attacks! Tartarus, who had half its body blown up, regenerated his body and stared at me. His voice changed completely and the tone was — from someone cornered.

[...You can shoot so many shots and with such force...!? Demonic dragon who manifested the power of infinityÂ… and the dreams... no, who was endowed with the power of Ophis and Great Red...!!]

His fighting spirit had not been shaken, huh! So, I had no choice but to weaken those shots a little more, and then use them again!

So I can not even take in exemple Belial? Or Verrine who losted for the “resistance” with some ultimate-devil class and an over-maou class?

Only because we establish something not written in the story is not true? So True-Longinus is the strongest Longinus as everyone said? Even when it could not kill Issei CxC when the story said Cao Cao was a danger for maou and gods and could kill god-class beings weak to the Spear.

So issei does not have problems of self-esteem?


Erebus is described as a fucking God not good to fight, who is inferior to Battle Gods as heavenly Kings who are weaker to Chief Gods and the monster of top 10. Typhon was described that a God not fighters is not even a match for him and would be defeated easily.

The difference among Top 10 and those under is Gigant, Apollon has been blowed away from Ddraig and could not do nothing while he was destroying Typhon.

There are features to say is incoherent at your contrary. We have Issei DxD G vs Apophis, he started the match in CxC receiving big damages from primordial Water, then he weared DxD G that since the first second give to his body an incredible pain. He was even SCREAMING for the pain, something NEVER SEEN because primordial water can damage seriously gods.

“It felt as though my body would be torn apart if I moved even just a little bit”. Then, he fought Apophis receiving damages, firing Dragon shoots and infinity blaster/Longinus Smasher. At the end of the fight he was okay, so much he could keep to fight Trihexa.

Vidar: “ And then, the final stage of the fight between Vidar-san and I began! As I punched him, Vidar-san also kicked me repeatedly! My punch hit Vidar-san head’s, and Vidar-san’s kick pierced my stomach! Because each attack was filled with an unbelievable mass of aura, our armours cracked, and the impacts even reached our bodies, causing us to throw up blood from our mouths. As I was punching him, I said.

We continued the intense exchange of punches and kicks from there and took distance from each other. The violent fight pushed the floating island past its limit as the small foothold that was left got destroyed. Vidar-san and I breathed hard. I mean, we dropped to our knees and rested. The armour could be repaired many times, but our bodies inside received so much damage that we were completely worn out. I couldn’t tell where the injuries were as I felt extreme pain throughout my whole body. Vidar-san stood up and focused his aura on his feet.“

This received an infinity blaster, firing infinity/Longinus and at the end was all okay.


With a God not fighter, that technically should not even be able to see his movements or contrast his attacks, for some attack and infinity blaster with some damages was felling more tired than with Apophis/vidar, when in those matches he received more damages using more demoniac power. As for the fact he had to charge the cannons when his casual attack are enough to defeat him, as for the fact he does not need to use them against Balor Rias or Angra who in aura was equal to Hades.

Ah, but itÂ’s not a problem after 5 seconds use AxA who consume so much energy.

What showed Tartarus to be top 10? He could keep more hits because has the regeneration that is not enough to put you in top 10. As for the fact he needed to take control of the artificial field to defeat them Longinus User.

Mahabali on the other hand can fire more hits at the level of infinity blaster as casual attack, while Issei only two who is his strongest attack with Longinus smasher, while not even Vali showed that power.

How is relevant what happened with Balberith? In that moment was not nerfed and he was described to have the potential to fight alone a Dragon God. Furthermore Mahabali losted because he could not read Balberith’s movements that were too much unpredictables.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by dnb

Crom had his wrist broken; Crom's raw power is above, so yes, Ddraig is at a disadvantage, he almost lost his conscience and had one arm broken because he made mistakes; the mistake is engaging in a hand to hand combat with someone more powerful, but Crom had to avoid Ddraig because if he missed he could have been K.O. by Ddraig, penetrate made Ddraig capable of giving Crom internal damage and end the match; like I said the one making the mistake first would lose.
Issei made the mistake of letting Kiba attack him and he got stabbed, if Kiba was a bit stronger he could have cut of Issei arm, and that was a God class/HD vs a near Maou Class or above Ultimate Class fight, though.

Engagin Crom in a fight hand to hand was the only solution, the flames of Ddraig were inferior and only with penetrate could compete with those of Crom, but he noticed the use. From distance? The normal’s attack could not damage him.

Certainly Penetrate was the only big problem, but at that point Crom could notice when Ddraig used it, so he would have lose probably if Crom can understand if penetrate is used in the punches. In another fight surely Crom would win.

Kiba could not Cut Isse’s armour, he could not destroy DxD’s armour, only to cut a Sairaorg’s arm when both were high-class he needed Xenivia. Furthermore all the fight has been incoherent that Issei could not see Kiba for the speed, when previously a lot of characters even if inferior a lot of than their opponent can see their movements, this when the gap of speed is not so big. As for the fact Logically speaking Issei would have blitzed easily Kiba without boost being only faster than CxC.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

So I can not even take in exemple Belial? Or Verrine who losted for the “resistance” with some ultimate-devil class and an over-maou class?

Only because we establish something not written in the story is not true? So True-Longinus is the strongest Longinus as everyone said? Even when it could not kill Issei CxC when the story said Cao Cao was a danger for maou and gods and could kill god-class beings weak to the Spear.

So issei does not have problems of self-esteem?


Erebus is described as a fucking God not good to fight, who is inferior to Battle Gods as heavenly Kings who are weaker to Chief Gods and the monster of top 10. Typhon was described that a God not fighters is not even a match for him and would be defeated easily.

The difference among Top 10 and those under is Gigant, Apollon has been blowed away from Ddraig and could not do nothing while he was destroying Typhon.

There are features to say is incoherent at your contrary. We have Issei DxD G vs Apophis, he started the match in CxC receiving big damages from primordial Water, then he weared DxD G that since the first second give to his body an incredible pain. He was even SCREAMING for the pain, something NEVER SEEN because primordial water can damage seriously gods.

“It felt as though my body would be torn apart if I moved even just a little bit”. Then, he fought Apophis receiving damages, firing Dragon shoots and infinity blaster/Longinus Smasher. At the end of the fight he was okay, so much he could keep to fight Trihexa.

Vidar: “ And then, the final stage of the fight between Vidar-san and I began! As I punched him, Vidar-san also kicked me repeatedly! My punch hit Vidar-san head’s, and Vidar-san’s kick pierced my stomach! Because each attack was filled with an unbelievable mass of aura, our armours cracked, and the impacts even reached our bodies, causing us to throw up blood from our mouths. As I was punching him, I said.

We continued the intense exchange of punches and kicks from there and took distance from each other. The violent fight pushed the floating island past its limit as the small foothold that was left got destroyed. Vidar-san and I breathed hard. I mean, we dropped to our knees and rested. The armour could be repaired many times, but our bodies inside received so much damage that we were completely worn out. I couldn’t tell where the injuries were as I felt extreme pain throughout my whole body. Vidar-san stood up and focused his aura on his feet.“

This received an infinity blaster, firing infinity/Longinus and at the end was all okay.


With a God not fighter, that technically should not even be able to see his movements or contrast his attacks, for some attack and infinity blaster with some damages was felling more tired than with Apophis/vidar, when in those matches he received more damages using more demoniac power. As for the fact he had to charge the cannons when his casual attack are enough to defeat him, as for the fact he does not need to use them against Balor Rias or Angra who in aura was equal to Hades.

Ah, but itÂ’s not a problem after 5 seconds use AxA who consume so much energy.

What showed Tartarus to be top 10? He could keep more hits because has the regeneration that is not enough to put you in top 10. As for the fact he needed to take control of the artificial field to defeat them Longinus User.

Mahabali on the other hand can fire more hits at the level of infinity blaster as casual attack, while Issei only two who is his strongest attack with Longinus smasher, while not even Vali showed that power.

How is relevant what happened with Balberith? In that moment was not nerfed and he was described to have the potential to fight alone a Dragon God. Furthermore Mahabali losted because he could not read Balberith’s movements that were too much unpredictables.

Make up your mind man, when you talk about mahabali you give the infiniti blaster a lot of level which obviously was not accidental because it was a mahabali fight with all its power and powerful Hindu weapons against Indra, but when tartarus endured a stronger attack and continued fighting you did not you consider it ... You see the favoritism towards mahabali And the regeneration is a good hack not for nothing trihexa is so dangerous.

And a fact, angra did not have an aura similar to hades, issei himself says that the aura of hades was stronger.

And in the duel of the gods all the gods present in the combat were displaying a similar power that made issei nervous and ddraig had to remind him of his exploits.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

Make up your mind man, when you talk about mahabali you give the infiniti blaster a lot of level which obviously was not accidental because it was a mahabali fight with all its power and powerful Hindu weapons against Indra, but when tartarus endured a stronger attack and continued fighting you did not you consider it ... You see the favoritism towards mahabali And the regeneration is a good hack not for nothing trihexa is so dangerous.

And a fact, angra did not have an aura similar to hades, issei himself says that the aura of hades was stronger.

And in the duel of the gods all the gods present in the combat were displaying a similar power that made issei nervous and ddraig had to remind him of his exploits.

Me? The only who denies the affirmations of two user is you. Mahabali was releasing from each sword an attack equal to infinity Blaster instantly, not loading the aura as Issei or Crom do. If itÂ’s not a casual attack, what is it?

Only one time Issei said Mahabali charged a vast amount of aura into the swords, just before cut IndraÂ’s arm.

However, even if for you are not casual attacks, it does not change he can fire more of them without problems, while Issei only two and lostes all his resistance and demoniac power. So who is stronger?

“He was releasing an aura that didn’t lose to Hades, but...if it was about true strength, Hades was above?”

They were equal in intensity, but in true strength Hades is above, itÂ’s different.

“ …Shit. Each of their attacks felt as strong as my Dragon Deification’s ace move, [Infinity Blaster]! Ddraig, who was inside me, said.

[Partner. The guys you’re watching stand at the top even among the mythologies. They’re the embodiment of the strongest. However, we have fought against Vidar with his Midgardsormr armor and the King of Monsters Typhon, and we won against them. We’ve also conquered the Evil Dragon Apophis and the Primordial God Nyx. Have a little faith.]”

For which reason Issei should be nervous for the Asura Gods or Heavenly Kings who are not even top 10 or chief god level?
Issei was nervous only because each Mahabali and IndraÂ’s attack was powerful as his infinity blaster.
Or now for you even normal battle Gods can fire more infinity blaster?

Except that what of amazing Did Tartarus? To defeat the Longinus user had to wait an isseiÂ’s tired and make a surprise attack to take the control of the dimension field. He could tank more attacks because could regenerate him-self.

There is a difference among Trihexa and Tartarus, Trihexa has the power to destroy the earth and assault completely alone whole mythologies and kill a lot of God-class beings.

Otherwise for this logic even a single core of Trihexa is stronger than Sirzechs and Issei for the regeneration or Tartarus is even better than Hades.

[Itsmepatrick]

Kiba should be able to fight on par with a Satan class opponent or maybe possibly defeat it with his current set of repertoire and especially the armor he equip in his legs to increased his speed to an outrageous level. Well if not for the fact that Issei took advantage of the fact that he knows Kiba's habit as they've been training together some time ago their fight will get prolong and Kiba will abused Issei due to his speed even though he cannot defeat him due to his swords not completely working against Pseudo Dragon Deification armor(Kiba in their fight can scratch his Pseudo Dragon Deification armor and sent some pain and damage to Issei's body even it's not severe and not enough to defeat him due to it lacking in power and the trait of the sword not completely working against Issei) .

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Kiba should be able to fight on par with a Satan class opponent or maybe possibly defeat it with his current set of repertoire and especially the armor he equip in his legs to increased his speed to an outrageous level. Well if not for the fact that Issei took advantage of the fact that he knows Kiba's habit as they've been training together some time ago their fight will get prolong and Kiba will abused Issei due to his speed even though he cannot defeat him due to his swords not completely working against Pseudo Dragon Deification armor(Kiba in their fight can scratch his Pseudo Dragon Deification armor and sent some pain and damage to Issei's body even it's not severe and not enough to defeat him due to it lacking in power and the trait of the sword not completely working against Issei) .

To be honest, if DxD was coherent, in shin 3 during the first meet with Gressil and the other one, Kiba being faster than a maou-class and for the plot could compete with P DxD, would have killed in one second Sonneillon and even Gressil, especially with booster.

It was not necessary enter in P DxD and fight seriously for Issei, it was enough say:"Kiba, use the boosters and kill them without show mercy".

All in just some seconds.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Engagin Crom in a fight hand to hand was the only solution, the flames of Ddraig were inferior and only with penetrate could compete with those of Crom, but he noticed the use. From distance? The normal’s attack could not damage him.

Certainly Penetrate was the only big problem, but at that point Crom could notice when Ddraig used it, so he would have lose probably if Crom can understand if penetrate is used in the punches. In another fight surely Crom would win.

Kiba could not Cut Isse’s armour, he could not destroy DxD’s armour, only to cut a Sairaorg’s arm when both were high-class he needed Xenivia. Furthermore all the fight has been incoherent that Issei could not see Kiba for the speed, when previously a lot of characters even if inferior a lot of than their opponent can see their movements, this when the gap of speed is not so big. As for the fact Logically speaking Issei would have blitzed easily Kiba without boost being only faster than CxC.

I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

To be honest, if DxD was coherent, in shin 3 during the first meet with Gressil and the other one, Kiba being faster than a maou-class and for the plot could compete with P DxD, would have killed in one second Sonneillon and even Gressil, especially with booster.

It was not necessary enter in P DxD and fight seriously for Issei, it was enough say:"Kiba, use the boosters and kill them without show mercy".

All in just some seconds.

on that one fight i can agree plot armor for sonellion and gressil was neccesary, other wise the battle would look like this

"then kiba moved faster than they could perceive and decapitated them in an instant"

and then whit erebus it would be

"then kiba moved whit his thrusters faster than anyone could see and killed everyone, the end"

seriously, whit no plot armor kiba and vali are fucking OP for that point in the story, they move faster than all the antagonist can even see (issei and crom hat to outright predict their moves to even land a hit) and slice their throats, if kiba can do minor scratches to issei armor he can do the same to the flesh of a god and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate their flesh, just make them bleed to death.

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by syzorst

I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

Crom Cruach's battle which is so simple and straightforward is very to get taken advantage of. But well Crom Cruach compensated that with his terrifying battle intuition which he culminate through his years of fighting and training.


Well Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames is a very dangerous move as it's even effective against God class beings with Ophis, Great Red and Samael were the only ones in the DxD world who will not be affected by it that's why it's not used by Draig even Issei didn't used it after the first time he used it in volume 21 as its very destructive and powerful .

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

on that one fight i can agree plot armor for sonellion and gressil was neccesary, other wise the battle would look like this

"then kiba moved faster than they could perceive and decapitated them in an instant"

and then whit erebus it would be

"then kiba moved whit his thrusters faster than anyone could see and killed everyone, the end"

seriously, whit no plot armor kiba and vali are fucking OP for that point in the story, they move faster than all the antagonist can even see (issei and crom hat to outright predict their moves to even land a hit) and slice their throats, if kiba can do minor scratches to issei armor he can do the same to the flesh of a god and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate their flesh, just make them bleed to death.

Issei only expelling Ascalon from the gauntlet could stab Erebus, moving his arm toward Erebus, so it’s logic Kiba can damage him.

About the booster, if you gived them to Kiba only as a power up to fight Issei that was totally incoherent, not leaving him to use them another time, It seems only one of the biggest assupull of ever only to giving problems as always to Issei.

However logically speaking even P DxD would have blitzed Erebus, being a big difference among those two in everything.

Originally Posted by syzorst

I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

The velocity was irrelevant only if Vali would have blitzed Crom behind him, things that he avoided to do after the punch, even because Vali wanted to stay far from Crom because the fight hand to hand is Crom’s speciality, while for Vali are aura’s attacks.

But the aura’s attacks? I remember you Crom could not seen them, furthermore he could only take them continuing to advance. Wyverns could not block Crom, but he was lucky Vali did not even use in that moment or during all the fight Longinus Smasher as with Hades.
If Vali would have fought as with Nezha, staying far from him, firing aura’s attacks with wyverns from every angle Crom would have lose.

Vali was fighting defensively? Based on what? After Vali used DxD L, Crom hit him only two time, with the first because Vali thought could blitz Crom, the second because was surprised from Crom’s resistance, even though the attack received, while Vali hit Crom three times with aura’s attacks.
If I have to be honest, for Vali was necessary only fly continually far from Crom as possible, firing aura’s attacks, thing possible because Crom is slower than him.

But Ddraig could damage Crom with aura’s attacks only with Penetrate, Vali no, his flames could compete only with Penetrate. Ddraig was loosing his knowledge after Crom’s attack toward the stomach.
Crom had since the beginning a broken arm, Ddraig no. Yes, during the final fight both were damaged, but was only a brawl, with the only possibility to damage Crom.

After the end Crom was avoiding Penetrate’s attacks, now I do not know if he can avoid even the punches, but if Crom and Ddraig would have another match, Ddraig would lose badly not having more advantages.

While Vali not even used Satan Lucifer smasher, the wyverns to fire aura’s attacks as Nezha or tryed to fight as far as possible from Crom.
For the fact of Ddraig’s flames, for this Logic Vali did not use Reduce.

[Itsmepatrick]

Kiba's most fights were just short one or team fights that's why there's no exact estimate of Kiba's combat strength.I wish Ishi will put him on a solo fight against an powerful Evie.
I'm sure Kiba can already take on and possibly defeat Satan class opponents like Euclid,Kokabiel and Barakiel but well that's just my own thought though.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Kiba's most fights were just short one or team fights that's why there's no exact estimate of Kiba's combat strength.I wish Ishi will put him on a solo fight against an powerful Evie.
I'm sure Kiba can already take on and possibly defeat Satan class opponents like Euclid,Kokabiel and Barakiel but well that's just my own thought though.

But it’s necessary what you said to estimate Kiba’s strength? No, there are already proves to indicate his power.

In raw power Kiba was overpassing Bikou who is ultimate-class devil, thanks to Vasco’s technique.
Speed? He is faster than a Maou-class and keep the pass with P DxD, Booster? Not even P DxD could see him (even if I consider a bull shit for me).

Knights? They have his same speed and ability, even Issei P DxD has been hit from them.

Kiba defeats easily every maou-class, as for the fact Euclide and Kokabiel where not maou-class, while Barakiel has been defeated easily from issei.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

But it’s necessary what you said to estimate Kiba’s strength? No, there are already proves to indicate his power.

In raw power Kiba was overpassing Bikou who is ultimate-class devil, thanks to Vasco’s technique.
Speed? He is faster than a Maou-class and keep the pass with P DxD, Booster? Not even P DxD could see him (even if I consider a bull shit for me).

Knights? They have his same speed and ability, even Issei P DxD has been hit from them.

Kiba defeats easily every maou-class, as for the fact Euclide and Kokabiel where not maou-class, while Barakiel has been defeated easily from issei.

I don't consider Kiba being too fast for Ise as a bullshit honestly. That's like saying Rossweisse being better than Ise in magic is bullshit or Asia being able to heal better than Ise is bullshit. They each have their specialty, to me there's nothing wrong with Kiba's speed being better than Ise. After all Ise focuses more on power over technique.

Isn't this one of the main reason why people are displeased with the Ise-Dulio match. Dulio's skills were forsaken for a fist fight with Ise.

[saucerKing]

well kiba was always the speed guy, he was always faster than issei (at least until triaina) and he was stated to have ridiculous talent so for him who focused in speed as much as issei in power it makes sense he would be faster.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by B214

I don't consider Kiba being too fast for Ise as a bullshit honestly. That's like saying Rossweisse being better than Ise in magic is bullshit or Asia being able to heal better than Ise is bullshit. They each have their specialty, to me there's nothing wrong with Kiba's speed being better than Ise. After all Ise focuses more on power over technique.

Isn't this one of the main reason why people are displeased with the Ise-Dulio match. Dulio's skills were forsaken for a fist fight with Ise.

What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.

You're forgetting the fact that Kiba still didn't have the technique when he fought Bikou(the one he used in his fight against Issei) where he equipped booster to increase his speed to the point that Issei can't catch him up if not for Issei Kiba's habit (due to them training together).Correction Kiba's speed in his new technique was not only above CxC Kiba's speed with this technique was even faster than Issei in his Pseudo Dragon Deification and he can't even catch up to him. Kiba was also Las in the fight against Bikou as he just along with the flow at that time.

In Erebus case it's more similar to what Issei did to defeat Kiba. Erebus studies Issei's battle habits techniques and stuffs .

Power doesn't always equate speed . Best example of this is Crom versus Vali fight as Crom was strong overall than Vali but Vali is still faster than him. Different guys have their own different aspects that they specializes in. For Example Issei is leaning more towards power while Vali was leaning more on speed and technique.Another example was Kiba and Xenovia as Xenovia focuses more on Power while Kiba was leaning more towards speed and techniques. Issei is fast but it's mostly in direct speed while Kiba and maybe Vali that's not the case as they have control over their speed.

Kiba loses in Pseudo Dragon Deification in terms of overall strength but Kiba with his booster was faster Issei in Pseudo Dragon Deification. Kiba is a type of power that relies heavily on techniques and his god speed and is adept at gaining his opponent weakness he's kind of like Cao Cao in the that their base was low but their techniques and combat strength can let them fight someone stronger than them. Guys like them shouldn't be just be judged base on their raw power and base state but instead it should be based on their combat strength.