Chronicle Legion [Light Novel]

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0

Spoiler for Spoiler question:

Is there any significance to Masatsugu referring his and his comrade-in-arms' army as "the empire's strongest spear and fastest arrow"? When I read that line, I immediately thought that Masatsugu's identity was Jebe, but when I looked if Subutai had any metaphorical relation to the spear, I came across nothing so I guess that's moot.

I would really, really like Masatsugu to be Subutai instead of Jebe. He's the #1 person I want him to be lol. Though the author could go and make Subutai some sort of boss later on due to the prominence of his name.

I second the idea of Subutai/Genghis Khan being summoned as a boss character.
One interesting thing that I notice from the map in volume 1, the Mongolia heartland is not affiliated with any other superpowers.
Any thought why nobody bothers to conquer Mongolia in this AU?

[Rokumonsen]

Originally Posted by wghokay

One interesting thing that I notice from the map in volume 1, the Mongolia heartland is not affiliated with any other superpowers.
Any thought why nobody bothers to conquer Mongolia in this AU?

It's just a vast grassland/desert.

[Marx-93]

The borders in the map are weird. They have the modern borders for Mongolia, Nepal, Bangladesh and Bhutan, despite that all of them would be easy pickings for all the empires, and Bangladesh shouldn't even exist with English colonialism still strong. In fact, Pakistan should still be part of the British Empire (though here is the chance that the Eastern Roman Empire may have snatched it). The same with north Korea and south Korea; without the URSS the division doesn't make much sense.

The same happens for Iraq, Jordan and Israel. The first may still be a puppet monarchy of the British, but an independent country of Israel doesn't much sense without Nazism (and Napoleon in fact was known for being tolerant with Jews, so I doubt it can be blamed on him). The African continent is also very weird, with only Tunisia and Mozambique borders detailed. Same with South America.

Honestly, outside the 4 main players (Japan, Eastern Rome, British Empire and the Chivalric Alliance) I wouldn't put much faith on the map. It seems rushed, and even the Japanese maps are sometimes a little weird.

[Rokumonsen]

What are the chances of this getting an anime next year?

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by Rokumonsen

What are the chances of this getting an anime next year?

I would say it is pretty slim. The sales of animes with lots of expositions like this tend not to do well.
Personally, I prefer there is no anime for Chronicle Legion, as either it will be a sub-par adaptation (remember Campione), or it will be popular and then there will be shipping war (remember Index).

[RDNexus]

I guess zzhk must be on vacation break, since there's been no updates in a little while

I'd personally enjoy an adaption... Despite knowing it might end up as others like Campione...

[Imagine Breaker]

Just read the update.

Spoiler for Update:

"Confirmed" that Masatsugu is from China-Mongolia area at least.

There goes my "Masatsugu is a Parthian" theory (Theory no. 2).

Come to think of it, Xiongnu can be considered as proto-mongolian people.

Edit: Ship as battering ram....wait, what?

As Black Prince said, too wasteful.

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Egads! Masatsugu, you madman!

Spoiler for Siege Madara:

He used the British destroyer as a battering ram and used it to ram into the Suzaku Gate fort... from the sky!

Meanwhile, Morrigan is super salty lol

A bit off-topic, but have Subutai or Jebe in real life ever expressed any weakness or dislike for siege battles?

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0

A bit off-topic, but have Subutai or Jebe in real life ever expressed any weakness or dislike for siege battles?

Subutai was among the first generals of Mongol who included the Chinese siege engine technology into his army, and it was greatly used during the conquest of Khwarezmia.
With that being said, the Mongol army still faced enormous amount of difficulty fighting siege warfare.
For example, one prominent siege battle involving Subutai is the siege of Kaifeng, and it took him nearly one year to finally overrun Kaifeng's defense.
Nothing much is known about Jebe regarding siege battle.

As a rule of thumb siege battle is almost always hard for cavalry armies, so it won't be surprising for both Jebe and Subutai (or any other generals of similar background) to hate siege warfare. If anything, Mongol army had a better record of fighting siege battles compared to Xiongnu or Huns.

[Marx-93]

I did a bit more research on Jebe and Subutai, and I reached two conclusions:

1. Jebe was a complete badass. Really, if there wasn't Subutai he would be the one remembered as the best Mongol commander, and actually while he was alive they were considered equals. Subutai is more famous because he lived 23 years more and fought more battles. And frankly because he also did a lot in the West, and historians still tend to be a tad too Western-centric (they're trying to get out of it too, but it's kinda hard to just magically undo almost 200 years of Historiographical tradition).
   
2. Both of them worked together constantly and were recognized as the best Mongol generals. When Genghis reorganized his army shortly after founding the Empire, he gave Subutai and Jebe permission to command "an army as big as they could muster" (basically a rank equivalent to a modern field marshal), and send them together to attack the enemies on his flanks while he was busy on China (this is a distinction that the other two dogs of Genghis didn't have). Besides the raid on Georgia, the Kievan Rus, they also worked together against Mongolian tribes before the unification and against the Qara Khitai (where Jebe smashed the enemy while Subutai guarded his flanks and took the chance to finish the Merkits for good too). So as of now I think we can be very sure that twin dogs are them.

On sieges, there is not much specific info, but Jebe did completely conquer the Qara Khitai in 3 years through use of subterfuge and uprisings, so he was not a stranger to them. What wghokay said was right too; the Mongols hated sieges, and while Genghis and Subutai were of the few that actually appreciated the use of siege engines that did not mean they were super siege experts. They all preferred pitched battles, where the Mongol were utter experts.

EDIT: As extra fun, remembering we talked about Nagashino here, it seems Japanese modern historians do consider the famous triple volley a myth added by later recorders to make the battle look cool and the Tokugawa-Oda as geniuses. So Nobunaga didn't even got that right...

[Happosay]

Wei Qing almost said, MC is

Spoiler for Matsasugu:

Huo Qubing... Elite of the Elite

After reading about the meeting with Rindou Sensei and the interaction a conversation with Wei Qing the first time and the last one.

[belatkuro]

Wei Qing's Feat of Arms is a bit plain and unassuming so it's easy to think that there's more to it. But that's for later since with that, he confirms that Masatsugu's plan will work against Edward. Because to be honest, that formation they made is just weird. Interested to see how that would fare against Edward's formation.

[wghokay]

Originally Posted by Happosay

Wei Qing almost said, MC is

Spoiler for Matsasugu:

Huo Qubing... Elite of the Elite

After reading about the meeting with Rindou Sensei and the interaction a conversation with Wei Qing the first time and the last one.

I don' think that is the case, because

Spoiler for Masatsugu's identity:

As has been mentioned in the thread before, Wei Qing is Huo Qubing's uncle and reincarnators are reincarnated exactly as they look in past life, so there is no chance that Wei Qing won't recognize him.

[RDNexus]

You're gonna tell me that the Resurrectees looked like that (the way they've been presented) in our Real Life's Past? I sure don't believe so...

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by xrick

You're gonna tell me that the Resurrectees looked like that (the way they've been presented) in our Real Life's Past? I sure don't believe so...

We are talking about in universe, not real life, i doubt anyone knew how Wei Qing or Genghis Khan actually look likes. Remember, Caesar appearance as well as tidbit mentioned by Wei Qing and Hijikata noted that they are resurrected, it's just the their appearance is influenced by their current body age which differ from their death age,otherwise, their appearance remain the same/.

Case in point, Huo Qubing is accepted and legitimized by the emperor, he has prosperity in early age, afterward, Emperor Wu also rated him very highly, giving him spot as captain at only 18 years old, so it 's clearly conflited with the fact that Masatsugu have to drink muddy water and relies on his horses to live. Coupling with the fact that Huo Qubing is served as part of Wei Qing army.it's impossible for Huo Qubing to be of any similar to Masatsugu. If anything, Hijikata Toshizo is far more better example with similarity.

[Marx-93]

Basically what dragon1412 said. While Huo Qubing was arguably the first Chinese general to be a specialist in light cavalry, he was peerless and he raided far and wide against the Xiongnu, he was also the beloved of emperor Wu, who preferred him to even Wei Qing. He further commanded the most elite and best equipped and supplied army of China in his last campaign, so the image Masutsugu has on V1 doesn't fit in the least. He was also kinda of an arrogant jerk, though that kinda also defines 70% of ancient Chinese commanders...

On appearance, all the talks in V1 seemed to point that, if not exactly the same, the appearance of ressurectees is close to their historical one. Even if they are all made more handsome, I think the base should be pretty close, given all the talk about Caesar and that Rikka thought that if there was a portrait of Hijikata he could compare Masutsugu with it.

And even if there were changes, if Masutsugu was Huo Qubing then his twin dog would be Wei Qing, so I think they could recognize each other even with a different appearance, especially as they are fighting together.

[Happosay]

Guys remember Matsasugu once said, they believe he din't has a long live and died young.

In the first meeting with Rindou, apparently she recognized him and told him something like you are a loyal dog of your householder.

Spoiler for Rindou and Matsasugu Conversation:

"Monarch's dog, you have suffered much from the shortage of energy."
Skip one line-->

"Do you know who I am?" The girl was clearly no ordinary person, so Masatsugu decided to cut straight to the chase.

The girl in the kimono was haughty in manner, her smirking countenance almost like a mischievous child's.

"Strictly speaking, I don't know anything. However, I do have a few thoughts from looking at your face."

"Something like a flash of inspiration?"

"You are a dog, and for virtually all of your past life, you were a ruler's dog."

And the first meeting with Wei Qing, him almost said he looks familiar to him.

Spoiler for First meeting Wei Qing and Matsasugu:

skip the conversation intro.

Masatsugu noticed General Wei Qing staring at him with curiosity.

"Is there something on my face?"

"No, actually, I have this unbelievable feeling."

The handsome Resurrectee showed an expression of nostalgia.

"When speaking to you, I get this impression... as though I am meeting someone from my homeland of the past. Excuse me for being forward, but may I inquire of your origins?"

"......"

"Born within the borders of Chinese territory—That does not seem to be the case for you. How unbelievable."

"Don't ask questions of this sort. I can't answer you."

"My apologies." General Wei Qing apologized to Masatsugu with a light smile. "I overstepped my bounds. Please forget I ever asked."

And last translated charapter, he said to him..

Spoiler for Character translated:

"General Wei Qing, if a chance arises, I'd really like to get to the 'bottom' of you some day."

"My true nature is not interesting at all. On the other hand, Tachibana-dono, your identity is far more intriguing."

"Me, you say?"

"The way you have fought your battles so far are only possible with a deep belief that your troops are the elite of the elite. Such are the types of tactics you employ, which take an excessively heavy toll on the soldiers."

"......"

"It is most likely that you hail from a strong nation, or perhaps you were a general leading heroes of the most elite sort?"

"Speaking of which, you said the troops you led were old and weak, General?"

Faced with Masatsugu's question, the handsome general smiled wryly and admitted, "Yes, the emperor assigned cavalry to me by to subjugate the equestrian Xiongnu tribes... Unfortunately, the riders and horses were all raised within Han borders. Compared to warriors who spent their entire lives riding across the steppes—The difference was as great as between heaven and earth."

So... there it is.. make your own conclusion about that...I almost forgot, Wei Qing looks like he have the feeling of confidence to masatsugu.

[DarkArmoredCore6]

For those who are wondering why I'm here. Is to discuss about Chronicle Legion. Been reading volume 5 which led to me a surprising cliffhanger. But rules are rules. Unless you want to be spoiler over this. Please reply.

[Rokumonsen]

Post spoilers, please.

[DarkArmoredCore6]

But only images ok.
For those who doesn't want to be spoiler please don't look or click??