Mahouka - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Ickarium]

I've read both Index and New Testament. It's definitely a power fantasy. Simply because the main character struggles once in a while doesn't mean it's not. Also, I don't think in order to judge something, one has to read the whole run. That's just silly. Reading enough to get an impression is enough.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I've read both Index and New Testament. It's definitely a power fantasy. Simply because the main character struggles once in a while doesn't mean it's not. Also, I don't think in order to judge something, one has to read the whole run. That's just silly. Reading enough to get an impression is enough.

"Once in a while", how about all the time? If you read it than you know that it's not a power fantasy and not a "nakama power" series yes he wants to save as many as he can but he himself knows that there are people he won't be able to save and that's fine with him because he is still going to try and please can yoy explain what is so power fantasy about it because all you the arguments thay have been brought up have only been "because it is".

Let me try it, Mahouka is a power fantasy because we see our god of a main character thrust into a world where everything is in place to make him look badass, his family, his school, his position in his school, his jobs, his friends and peers, his move set (the most broken yet, mixed with his ninjutsu and taijutsu), they way he is so much smarter than any character in the series, his sister, his enemies (who are mostly just scrubs so that he can wipe the floor with them and even the supposed "bosses" don't compare to holy Tatsuya), the ones who are as broken as him aren't really anywhere close to his level.

All his arguments with other people can be summarized as:

Tatsuya: "I'm smarter than you so I'm right"

Someone: "you are right, how stupid of me"

His motivations are all over the place, he wants to create a world where all magicians get a fair treatment, but argues against having fair treatmen... what? (Go to page 8 in this thread and find Fairie who has an link to a blog that explains it in better detail and more articulate than I could)

He is stoic only because the author wants to cater to the incest fans (which is obvious as hell) and he is too lazy to actually pair him up with a girl who isn't as subservient and submissive as Miyuki because, you know every otakus dream, right?

Ok I would like everyone on this thread (if you want to) to male a tally of how many people he actually struggles against in the next few arcs, better yet make the list and then after Yokohama arc look at the list and tell me if what you read and what you just saw makes sense, trust me you'll remember this.

Sure, but why don't you want to be more prepared when accusing a series of something when you admit you gave up and know nothing after the fact? I gave up on Mahouka (I'll pick it up again if I hear about something I need to read to believe) but I'm not beneath going and taking a look at a wiki or the LN itself to be able to have concrete proof that will back me up, I didn't just assume things about it, I actually gave it a chance to impress me in it's best format.

[Ickarium]

Sent a response via PM so as to not divert the thread again.

I will note in re Mahouka, that it seems to be a very love-or-hate series, which is interesting to me.

As for Mibu vs Erika, note that Mibu specifically recognizes the name Chiba and goes something like "You're one of THOSE Chiba'. Chibas are apparently so well known that everyone knows the family. Which suggests how badass Erika likely is if she's going out training people like Mari.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That's a bit of an oversimplification. But yeah. People being treated differently depending on their skill is a normal occurrence. Although it's no justification for bullying. But people often fail to see the two as separate.

The thing is there really isn't any indication that there is an actual bullying problem that a lot of people keep claiming there is. Aside from the teacher issue what is going on is just basic high school cliqueish behavior. A lot of people seem to have taken what the students that were working for Blanche were saying at face value and then ignoring when it was refuted even after it is reviled in this ep that the kendo club president had been working for at least a year to over inflate these views. There is a reason Mayumi was able to demolish them in the debate their premise was based on incorrect information she then took everyone to task pointing out that the course 2 students are just as equally responsible for how things are.

[My Zodiac Aries]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

No, season 2 is not "enough" to judge the series, that alone makes your claims that it's a power fantasy invalid, go read the series from vol 14 onwards and reach NT.9 then you can say anything you want about that series.

In contrast I read 9 volumes of Mahouka and came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth to keep following (and I was excited to read it), to me it's an average series at best, since everything that happens is just to show off how OP and perfect Tatsuya is, everything is an illusion, it's an interesting premise but so many things bog it down that it's not even funny.

Please do more research and don't assume (we all know what they say about assuming) I thoroughly read 9 volumes of the series and gave it a second chance and more I didn't just read a few chapters and go "nope this is this and this and it should be written off as this". Just go and read the TAMNI wiki (at the least) at the most read a few of the volumes.

I am not saying this is a bad series, it's just not as good as everyone makes it out to be. I bet that Yokohama arc will change a lot if minds here.

I think you don't like Politics.
You understand Politics ? I love LOG Horizon, Code Geass, Gundam Series because of the Politics.
In Mahouka, Power alone is not enough. Except you want to be a Dictator.
How they can unite the world ? Stop the World War ?


I don't watch TAMNI not because I don't like it. But it has no any politics there.
TAMNI has no any Politic theme.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kagato3

The thing is there really isn't any indication that there is an actual bullying problem that a lot of people keep claiming there is. Aside from the teacher issue what is going on is just basic high school cliqueish behavior.

Well, Morisaki threatened Leo and then was ready to beat Leo up in order to get what he wants in ep1. If it only happened once, it could be considered an isolated incident. If he would do it repeatedly, then it's bullying.

Would he do it repeatedly if noone stops him? Possible, from the impression we got of him so far.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by kagato3

The thing is there really isn't any indication that there is an actual bullying problem that a lot of people keep claiming there is. Aside from the teacher issue what is going on is just basic high school cliqueish behavior. A lot of people seem to have taken what the students that were working for Blanche were saying at face value and then ignoring when it was refuted even after it is reviled in this ep that the kendo club president had been working for at least a year to over inflate these views. There is a reason Mayumi was able to demolish them in the debate their premise was based on incorrect information she then took everyone to task pointing out that the course 2 students are just as equally responsible for how things are.

The mere existence of the words "Weed" and "Bloom" completely obliterates any notion that claims "there is no bullying whatsoever". I won't deny that the course 2 students also contribute to the status quo. But to say that they are completely in the wrong and the course 1 students are not at fault in the slightest is not accurate either.

Remember, a lot of them refuse to associate with "weeds" and try to prevent their peers from doing so as well. This was shown on screen. The general anger at the course 1 students emanating from the course 2 students may be inflated, but it has a clear base.


...No matter who I'm talking to, as long as they're fully on one side they'll just see me as fully on the other side when in fact I am neither, won't they?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Dengar

But to say that they are completely in the wrong and the course 1 students are not at fault in the slightest is not accurate either.

But I haven't actually seen anyone try to claim that, either in the show or in the forum.

As you have observed, what seems to be happening is that some (perhaps most?) people on each side of the divide perceive that those who don't agree with them are at the opposite end of the spectrum, and react accordingly.

[kukuru]

To take from another source,

How nice we are, living in a safe and powerful country where something that can't even be deemed a human rights issue or even a community issue is a hot button issue.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I've read, thank you, and I know a large proportion of magicians fight. We also already saw in the anime how important fighting was to some students.

I don't think you do. Because then , Tatsuya aside, anyone would realize why course1 would be so important.

Especially

Spoiler for Magicians:

When we start having category of magic or classes

In any event in the real world. Even if we have tanks and guns and nukes, we rely much more in in communications, radars, satilitites, electronic hacking, and spying, logistics, etc when going into a war.

Simply pushing someone to their death in a magic fight is not a magic fight. It's just brawling.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kukuru

To take from another source,

How nice we are, living in a safe and powerful country where something that can't even be deemed a human rights issue or even a community issue is a hot button issue.

lol, it's just another internet debate when netizens expressed their different opinions. In a sport forum, there will be some long debates about sport teams/players performances, etc.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Well, Morisaki threatened Leo and then was ready to beat Leo up in order to get what he wants in ep1. If it only happened once, it could be considered an isolated incident. If he would do it repeatedly, then it's bullying.

Would he do it repeatedly if noone stops him? Possible, from the impression we got of him so far.

Keep in mind that both Leo and Erica were also at fault there and nearly started the fight in the cafeteria first. At that time all that had happened was that Morisaki had suggested that Miyuki shouldn't be hanging around them but with the members of her class(1-a ).Was it rude and jerkish yes but not bullying. Afterwards The class 1a group had apparently been trying to get close to Miyuki until it was time to leave but was blocked by Tatsuya's group. The confrontation had less to do with them being cours2 than them "hogging" Miyuki who did nothing to try to get them to leave her alone.

As for Morisaki's comments to Tatsuya after they had joined the DC he had every reason to believe Tatsuya was puting on a front by claiming he could use 2 CADs.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kagato3

Keep in mind that both Leo and Erica were also at fault there and nearly started the fight in the cafeteria first.

"At fault"? Wtf ??? Is there something in the LN that's not shown in the anime? Because all Leo and Erica did were simply standing up after being talked down. They didn't even say anything much in return at that time. And Tatsuya did leave so presumably Miyuki did get to spend time with her course 1 classmates during lunch time (for episode 1).

Afterwards The class 1a group had apparently been trying to get close to Miyuki until it was time to leave but was blocked by Tatsuya's group. The confrontation had less to do with them being cours2 than them "hogging" Miyuki who did nothing to try to get them to leave her alone.

It's true that Miyuki could've done a better job but it's not like she totally ignores her course1 classmates. Just by looking at episode 1, there's really no reason to assume Miyuki actually spent more time with them than her own course1 classmates. And Miyuki's going home with her brother, so the only one "hogging" Miyuki''s only Tatsuya. If it's other course 1 students blocking Morisaki, Morisaki would be less eager to threaten them about his strength.

Strictly speaking, I am not branding Morisaki as a bully yet from a single incident. But if there's noone to stop him, I would say the possibility's there. The problem with Morisaki is that he has this BLOOM supremicist attitude that would cloud his moral compass. From his pov, he believed his action is justified, but from a 3rd person pov, it could be considered bullyish.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

"At fault"? Wtf ??? Is there something in the LN that's not shown in the anime? Because all Leo and Erica did were simply standing up after being talked down. They didn't even say anything much in return at that time. And Tatsuya did leave so presumably Miyuki did get to spend time with her course 1 classmates during lunch time (for episode 1).



It's true that Miyuki could've done a better job but it's not like she totally ignores her course1 classmates. Just by looking at episode 1, there's really no reason to assume Miyuki actually spent more time with them than her own course1 classmates. And Miyuki's going home with her brother, so the only one "hogging" Miyuki''s only Tatsuya. If it's other course 1 students blocking Morisaki, Morisaki would be less eager to threaten them about his strength.

It is clear they were doing more then just getting up. they were both about to start something just by going by the looks they were giving and their temperments.

yes Tatsuya is the one hogging her but the rest were running physically blocking the 1A students from getting near Tatsuya and Miyuki. It's not that she is spending no time with them but they want to get closer since she is a really big deal.

I would say it would be fairly likely that if everyone there was course 1 students the exact same thing would have happened.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kagato3

It is clear they were doing more then just getting up. they were both about to start something just by going by the looks they were giving and their temperments.

I just finish reading the relevant part in the LN, and I can only say that I stand by my position, even stronger. So I suppose we can only agree to disagree on this point above.... Either way, nothing happens there, so it has nothing to do with the incident after the school.

yes Tatsuya is the one hogging her but the rest were running physically blocking the 1A students from getting near Tatsuya and Miyuki. It's not that she is spending no time with them but they want to get closer since she is a really big deal.
I would say it would be fairly likely that if everyone there was course 1 students the exact same thing would have happened.

Mizuki also explained Miyuki's intention there. In a normal situation, people would at least partially believe it, back down for the moment, and then asks her tomorrow in class when there's a chance, because it's not like Miyuki never talked with them before. But because it's the WEED being the cockblocker, Morisaki considered Mizuki's words total bullshit. And even if Morisaki's stubborn enough to keep pushing on, if it's against course 1 student, I think he would at least ask which family they came from. But since it's the weak WEED, he's so confident that he can pwn the ones blocking his way.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

I just finish reading the relevant part in the LN, and I can only say that I stand by my position, even stronger. So I suppose we can only agree to disagree on this point above.... Either way, nothing happens there, so it has nothing to do with the incident after the school.




Mizuki also explained Miyuki's intention there. In a normal situation, people would at least partially believe it, back down for the moment, and then asks her tomorrow in class when there's a chance, because it's not like Miyuki never talked with them before. But because it's the WEED being the cockblocker, Morisaki considered Mizuki's words total bullshit. And even if Morisaki's stubborn enough to keep pushing on, if it's against course 1 student, I think he would at least ask which family they came from. But since it's the weak WEED, he's so confident that he can pwn the ones blocking his way.

This stopped being normal situation when they stopped listening to Miyuki. We know from the dialogue as she had already turned them down once at least and Leo does goad Morisaki on.

Spoiler for ln side note:

Morisaki has every reason to believe there is a large gap as class 1a are the top 25 of those tested as an example that exercise Tatsuya was having a hard time passing at 1000ms (Erica and Mizuki do have some trouble as well) Miyuki can do in about 280ms and is mad at the score as it is too high because the equipment isn't calibrated well enough. So yes from a technical stand point what Mizuki said was naïve and could be seen as belittling them.

My point is no one is in the right there but it had more to do with the Class 1a students acting like fans after a celebrity then lets oppress some lower classmen.

[rladls2121]

This is chaos. Not knowing when will this "Blooms" and "Weeds" discrimination will come out on the surface again in upcoming arcs.

This Anti magic vs magic will go on for eternality.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Power fantasy in my book means :" you makes reallly really stupid decisions but the world and some super-power is there to save your ass". The power is existed to serve the MC's unrealistic and ridiculous goal, if the power does not exist, he will fail.

Then that's a strange book you're using. A power fantasy is an invitation for the reader to identify with a character that's not just strong, but practically unstoppable and impossible to hurt. The story of Superman stopping a common mugger is a power fantasy. Superman fighting Zod isn't, it's just two guys of roughly equal power fighting (well, it depends on the focus of the story, I guess). It often bears the message that even if might doesn't make right, there's a certain inevitable correlation.

If anything, ToAru is the inverse of that. It's the story of a "normal" guy in a world of demi-gods who still stands up against them. In fact, the author often oversells how normal Touma is. He eventually prevails, because we like happy ends, but it comes at a cost. He's a regular at the hospital. He often loses fights, he sometimes get outright curbstomped, and he always acknowledges his disadvantage. The message here is that even if the odds are ridiculously against you, as long as your courage and determination hold, you can make a difference. It's also a fantasy, but it's a completely different one.

Originally Posted by kukuru

To take from another source,

How nice we are, living in a safe and powerful country where something that can't even be deemed a human rights issue or even a community issue is a hot button issue.



I don't think you do. Because then , Tatsuya aside, anyone would realize why course1 would be so important.

Especially

Spoiler for Magicians:

When we start having category of magic or classes

In any event in the real world. Even if we have tanks and guns and nukes, we rely much more in in communications, radars, satilitites, electronic hacking, and spying, logistics, etc when going into a war.

Simply pushing someone to their death in a magic fight is not a magic fight. It's just brawling.

You've lost me. I don't even know what you're trying to argue.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by kagato3

My point is no one is in the right there but it had more to do with the Class 1a students acting like fans after a celebrity then lets oppress some lower classmen.

The thing with bullying is that someone can become a bully without "intentionally" being one. Kid X talks bad about Kid Y's dad in front of Kid Y; Kid Y punches Kid X in return. If this only happens once, then it's just heat of the moment, but if this kinda thing repeatedly happens, then Kid Y becomes a bully. So even though Morisaki doesn't go around to pick on random WEED, but if someone happens to get in his way, whether it's justified or not, Morisaki seems pretty eager to resort to threat/force in order to get what he wants, especially if his opponents are WEED. I am not saying Morisaki is totally immoral, but it's clouded such that he may resort to force in some situations where it's actually not justified to use force, and WEED could potentially be more affected by this due to his BLOOM supremacist view.

A police with a perverted sense of justice is a bully even though he doesn't realize he's one himself.

[Dengar]

You know, concerning Tatsuya's "unstoppable-ness", doesn't his entire schtick rely on his opponents not knowing what he can do?

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You know, concerning Tatsuya's "unstoppable-ness", doesn't his entire schtick rely on his opponents not knowing what he can do?

Maybe, maybe not. It will take a long time to fully develop the meaning and usage of magic in the world, with the anime helping less by omitting large chunks of it.

From a tactical point of view Tatsuya as seen so far is an assault type magician. Meaning direct frontal assault type combat.

And we know in battles and war, it's more then just random beat downs. You can't compare a sniper to a close quarter specialist, to a medic, to an explosives expert, etc, etc, etc.

Though again, raw power stats like the practical are huge difference makers. Speed, scale, power.

Again much of it is RAFO, due to the nature of LN.

One thing that is taught in the manga and companion secments is types of magic. Kirihara scene for instance Tatsuya spotted a Rank B close combat Vibration Magic.