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Miraluka · 2014-02-24, 12:04

@Mentar

No, cliche isn't a bad thing by itself, is bad when isn't played well. When is well done you can even forget when A and B character is the childhood friend and tsundere type putting that aside and enjoy it, that is what makes it original.

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I'm perfectly fine with the story development as is, and no, this "inverse" development of having the female lead gradually developing feelings for the male lead while this is causing him to more and more slip out of her reach is very nonstandard and thus non-cliche.

Really? The way you put it made think of ZnT in a flash.

@Larethian

About your claim about originality, see what I told Menthar.

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Thus you will never catch me using these words.

I don't even want to "catch" you =___=.

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Sure, you can dislike Masuzu, but if you are saying this series turns to shit and that you can't buy such an ending, then either you are not reading it carefully enough, or you are not seeing it as a literary work from a holistic approach. That's my 2 cents.

Except for the fact I didn't say this series became shit.. don't put words into others post, please

.

If I don't buy her character that's another thing, a very personal, just like some don't buy Tatsuya from Mahouka or Kirito from SAO. I won't deny her developments and if she ends with Eita because that's the author work, not mine, I just have to accept it, isn't like I can do anything against that, you know?
For example, I'm fan of Itsuwa and Kaori from Index series and sure damn I ship Touma with the former but I'm pretty well aware that the only character that occupies a big space on Touma's heart is Index(to the point of dying twice for her) so I'm ready if she ends with him

. Others has no chance.

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I'm kind of sick of this Oreimo being stated as example again and again.

That's because the series is a recent example. The series was about imouto and as such it had to end about imouto.

Mentar · 2014-02-24, 18:46

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I'm perfectly fine with the story development as is, and no, this "inverse" development of having the female lead gradually developing feelings for the male lead while this is causing him to more and more slip out of her reach is very nonstandard and thus non-cliche.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miraluka

@Mentar

No, cliche isn't a bad thing by itself, is bad when isn't played well. When is well done you can even forget when A and B character is the childhood friend and tsundere type putting that aside and enjoy it, that is what makes it original.

Pleeeeeeease. In ZnT, Louise is clearly in love with Saito from Volume 1. And Saito is most certainly not "slipping away" from her over the course of the show. It is always clear beyond any doubt what the true pairing is.

Sorry. I'm with Larethian here. "Cliche" is merely a sloppy blanket criticism without real meaning other than "I don't like it, but I don't want to bother voicing a proper complaint". And OreShura is certainly quite different from the vast majority of LNs out there.

Birdway · 2014-02-24, 19:42

ZnT? I remember Luise running away every single damn time Saito feels something for other girls(it was Louise' fault anyway) and wasn't the novel heading towards an harem route? Tabitha was confessing on vol.20.. too bad the author died.

To me is kind of obvious here in Oreshura Mazusu is gonna win, isn't she the main girl afterall?

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Sorry. I'm with Larethian here. "Cliche" is merely a sloppy blanket criticism without real meaning other than "I don't like it, but I don't want to bother voicing a proper complaint". And OreShura is certainly quite different from the vast majority of LNs out there.

Btw, what's wrong with cliches? You can find them everywhere even in the most succesful series, just look at MPMM. Oh, what I bolded is no different from what nay-naysayers' would do to disacredit others opinion. You would be in the same bag of people who label others as haters for the same reasons.

larethian · 2014-02-24, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdway

ZnT? I remember Luise running away every single damn time Saito feels something for other girls(it was Louise' fault anyway) and wasn't the novel heading towards an harem route? Tabitha was confessing on vol.20.. too bad the author died.

To me is kind of obvious here in Oreshura Mazusu is gonna win, isn't she the main girl afterall?

Btw, what's wrong with cliches? You can find them everywhere even in the most succesful series, just look at MPMM. Oh, what I bolded is no different from what nay-naysayers' would do to disacredit others opinion. You would be in the same bag of people who label others as haters for the same reasons.

You realize that it's one thing to say "I don't like it, but I don't want to bother voicing a proper complaint" and another thing to say "This is cliche, thus it's shit"? It may be the same to you but different to me. The first is an expression of an opinion which I couldn't care less, but the later is more like an assertion of a fact.

Birdway · 2014-02-24, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

You realize that it's one thing to say "I don't like it, but I don't want to bother voicing a proper complaint" and another thing to say "This is cliche, thus it's shit"? It may be the same to you but different to me. The first is an expression of an opinion which I couldn't care less, but the later is more like an assertion of a fact.

Quote where I or other said it's shit, please. I don't see them as the same but isn't fair to say others are into the later just because it bothered you.

larethian · 2014-02-24, 22:29

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Originally Posted by Birdway

Quote where I or other said it's shit, please. I don't see them as the same but isn't fair to say others are into the later just because it bothered you.

You mean you've never seen people shit-flaming a series using generic and cliche as reasons? Sometimes they don't use the exact word 'shit', but my point is, the criticisms are unwarranted and unsubstantiated many times, based on misinformation or prejudgments. When people use these words without compelling arguments because they are lazy, it's going to of course become bait for the lovers of a series. And yes, I am bothered when people use narrow views to judge something. But, for the record, I have criticized every series I loved and even series I translated, and given some sort of praise to nearly every series I disliked primarily because I read them before making strong criticisms on them (only exception being IS though I also read what was being translated), because I tend to look at things holistically. Maybe that's precisely why I'm bothered. If you are not bothered when someone shit-flames a series you like without giving a proper reason other than calling it 'generic', then great for you. We are not on the same page here and I respect your own way of reacting or not-reacting.

I don't want to single out people here, partly because I don't want to further digress to explain why I'm bothered by something or not bothered by something that certain people did. At least not in this thread. But if you want an example of when 'generic' and 'shit' appears together, you can even find it in signatures if you look for it. There's also an instance where someone with a strong prejudice with WSJ calling everything it has shit and generic shounen then starts babbling about how the editors work and push for series to run when it's far from the truth. Anyway, I'm starting to do what I didn't want to do. You can just keep an eye on all the posts in "Upcoming Series" threads from now on and you will bound to see it one day.

Peace.

Used Can · 2014-03-01, 20:34

To be honest, even if someone explains why they think a story is generic or shitty, or why a particular scene and/or development was clichéd, what they say still is an opinion. It's an opinion they've bothered to explain, but an opinion nonetheless.

Anyway, welcome back larethian. You were missed man.

cloudii · 2014-03-02, 23:16

Chinese translators have started their work on volume 7. Hummhumm... xD

On the topic of my personal opinion, I don't think OreShura is as cliche as it could be. It keeps tumbling into the deeper side of all the characters. In fact, that's probably why I enjoy OreShura.

Fakeness and Realness -- Yuuji Yuuji really addresses what it means to love someone and the dynamics of those feelings (whether it be insecurities or doubts, or all the loads of feelings you can get while liking someone). It's much more complicated than the character tropes that are initially projected over them.

Okashira · 2014-03-03, 00:00

The story is not the most breath taking original of the lot, but that doesn't mean that it's the most predictable of them all. The fact that pretty much everything that has gone so far has been dependant of character relationships has been pretty helpful; and has made some stuff harder to foresee (like, I would have never expected Hime from all people to mature some, nor to "get rid" of the convenient class seat arrangement, and Eita actually having his comical fear of "losing 1st place due to shuraba" was not what I was predicting in the least).

I'm very happy that some classic shounen romcom clichés like 'some random bishounen trying to oppose Eita with "I'm better for her"' or 'some random omai partner "fighting to win Masuzu"' have not been invoked so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masuzu-chwan

“NUWAAAAN what should we dooooooooooo!” (*tears*)

♥♥♥♥ This is really great

edit : Oh, japanzai released another manga chapter.

larethian · 2014-03-05, 10:41

Finally started on v7.
Am I supposed to give spoilers? Or wait for the translations?
Summary of my impression of chapter 0

Spoiler:

anonfr · 2014-03-05, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

Finally started on v7.
Am I supposed to give spoilers? Or wait for the translations?
Summary of my impression of chapter 0

Spoiler:

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Okashira · 2014-03-05, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

Finally started on v7.
Am I supposed to give spoilers? Or wait for the translations?

Spoiler for Summary of my impression of chapter 0:

ゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Translations go by chronogical order, so there are some months away from reaching the current volume (in fact, they haven't still taken over the previous summaries, it can't be helped with all of them pages in a novel). My vote? Do what pleases you.

Oh, speaking of, doesn't someone know what the insult ニワカ means? one of the puns that I wasn't able to get, it has been bothering me for months

.......

Mana-chan ♥♥♥

For those wondering, the manga is still not done with LN vol 4, and they have been taking their sweet time in a semi detailed adaptation of the volume. I'm hoping for the manga to do volume 5, as well; but it looks like it's going to be a while before they get to start that out (they just started the contest, we are close to Masuzu's confession scene, though).

Birdway · 2014-03-05, 11:26

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Originally Posted by Okashira

I'm very happy that some classic shounen romcom clichés like 'some random bishounen trying to oppose Eita with "I'm better for her"' or 'some random omai partner "fighting to win Masuzu"' have not been invoked so far.

That barely hapes with harem oriented series.

larethian · 2014-03-05, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okashira

ゴゴゴゴゴゴゴゴ

Translations go by chronogical order, so there are some months away from reaching the current volume (in fact, they haven't still taken over the previous summaries, it can't be helped with all of them pages in a novel). My vote? Do what pleases you.

Oh, speaking of, doesn't someone know what the insult ニワカ means? one of the puns that I wasn't able to get, it has been bothering me for months

? Are you translating it? I thought Cloud was?? ニワカ = noob (on 2ch)
If someone's translating at decent rate, I'd be too lazy to spoil.
Read till chapter 4 last night.
Chapter 0 seems to be for the readers (so that we don't misunderstand Masuzu like Eita) and JoJo fans lol lol. You get to know Masuzu is more of a fan of the Ripple arcs as opposed to the Stand arcs lol lol. Jonathon and Joseph were more impactful for her lol lol.

Okashira · 2014-03-05, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

? Are you translating it? I thought Cloud was?? ニワカ = noob (on 2ch)
If someone's translating at decent rate, I'd be too lazy to spoil.
Read till chapter 4 last night.
Chapter 0 seems to be for the readers (so that we don't misunderstand Masuzu like Eita) and JoJo fans lol lol. You get to know Masuzu is more of a fan of the Ripple arcs as opposed to the Stand arcs lol lol. Jonathon and Joseph were more impactful for her lol lol.

So Masuzu is also into Sto-sama?

I somehow understand her statement, when I first read jojo the first 2 parts left a really big impact on me; I still comment with friends stuff like "that fight, made me a fan". It also depends on "when" one starts out, after all some parts are much more fabulous than others.

Oh, there are 2 translators appointed, and none of them is me

however since they seem to be working from the chinese translation and I'm reading the japanese version, I give myself the work of checking any name changes or sentences that didn't carry over properly (a lot of jokes are tweaked or not understood by the chinese side. Some even omited). I'm also the jojo neta dictionary

Right now vol 5 & 6 are being worked on, and next will be 6.5, so there it will be a while before 7 gets some love.

anonfr · 2014-03-05, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okashira

I'm very happy that some classic shounen romcom clichés like 'some random bishounen trying to oppose Eita with "I'm better for her"' or 'some random omai partner "fighting to win Masuzu"' have not been invoked so far.

What if it was some random bishounen who had her father's approval and was a huge Jojo otaku. Then we'd know some real drama is gonna go down. He'll argue that he's better with an assault of Jojo references mixed into his words, and we'll say "maybe.. maybe you're right."

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Originally Posted by Birdway

That barely hapes with harem oriented series.

It happens enough to be annoyed by it though. Moreso in manga than LN's as far as I can judge though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

? Are you translating it? I thought Cloud was?? ニワカ = noob (on 2ch)
If someone's translating at decent rate, I'd be too lazy to spoil.
Read till chapter 4 last night.
Chapter 0 seems to be for the readers (so that we don't misunderstand Masuzu like Eita) and JoJo fans lol lol. You get to know Masuzu is more of a fan of the Ripple arcs as opposed to the Stand arcs lol lol. Jonathon and Joseph were more impactful for her lol lol.

The Translations probably won't catch up for months so any spoilers would be deeply appreciated. If you happen to have the time and energy that is. You're in control, we are powerless against you.

Side Note: I did not know that she preferred the ripples arc. That's interesting, trivia wise at least. Thanks!

larethian · 2014-03-06, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonfr

It happens enough to be annoyed by it though. Moreso in manga than LN's as far as I can judge though.

The Translations probably won't catch up for months so any spoilers would be deeply appreciated. If you happen to have the time and energy that is. You're in control, we are powerless against you.

Side Note: I did not know that she preferred the ripples arc. That's interesting, trivia wise at least. Thanks!

I don't want to demotivate translators' motivation now that it's being picked up.

GenesiD · 2014-03-22, 06:02

This LN is quite fun. I'm happy to see that it gets updated regularly every 2-3 days.
There is no way Masuzu does not end up with Eita in the end. She is the end girl. If it's somehow Chiwa then the whole plot becomes moot IMO. Hopefully volume 8 is released soon.

larethian · 2014-03-22, 12:28

Actually after reading v7 a month ago.......
Don't read my spoiler if you want to use your own judgment as my judgment may be imperfect or overly pessimistic/optimistic.

Spoiler for my evaluation from v7:

Okashira · 2014-03-22, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by larethian

Actually after reading v8 a month ago.......
Don't read my spoiler if you want to use your own judgment as my judgment may be imperfect or overly pessimistic/optimistic.

Spoiler for my evaluation from v8:

Spoiler tag probably means vol 7, right? Many of the reviews I have read kinda agree with your stand by the way.

Personally I do feel that the author is building more on the title name sake. After all the first 4 volumes Masuzu got all the juicy bits; and Chiwa had a much lesser serious chance. But after vol 4 (actually, on the very same epilogue of vol 4) I really got this feeling that the author is trying to build things in a way where we can't tell which of them is going to be; and he started that by compensating Chiwa's initial "lagging behind".

2014-03-01, 20:34	Link #267
Used Can Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	To be honest, even if someone explains why they think a story is generic or shitty, or why a particular scene and/or development was clichéd, what they say still is an opinion. It's an opinion they've bothered to explain, but an opinion nonetheless. Anyway, welcome back larethian. You were missed man. __________________ "The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom

2014-03-05, 10:41	Link #270
larethian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	Finally started on v7. Am I supposed to give spoilers? Or wait for the translations? Summary of my impression of chapter 0 Spoiler: JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJoJo JoJoJoJoJo!!!!

2014-03-22, 12:28	Link #279
larethian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	Actually after reading v7 a month ago....... Don't read my spoiler if you want to use your own judgment as my judgment may be imperfect or overly pessimistic/optimistic. Spoiler for my evaluation from v7: Chiwa being end girl is pretty high now. Masuzu and open end are still pretty much possible though. That's why I don't want to talk about it. I'll put it at 40-30-30, with Chiwa leading. Last edited by larethian; 2014-03-22 at 13:16.

2014-03-02, 23:16	Link #268
cloudii Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013	Chinese translators have started their work on volume 7. Hummhumm... xD On the topic of my personal opinion, I don't think OreShura is as cliche as it could be. It keeps tumbling into the deeper side of all the characters. In fact, that's probably why I enjoy OreShura. Fakeness and Realness -- Yuuji Yuuji really addresses what it means to love someone and the dynamics of those feelings (whether it be insecurities or doubts, or all the loads of feelings you can get while liking someone). It's much more complicated than the character tropes that are initially projected over them.

2014-03-22, 06:02	Link #278
GenesiD Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014	This LN is quite fun. I'm happy to see that it gets updated regularly every 2-3 days. There is no way Masuzu does not end up with Eita in the end. She is the end girl. If it's somehow Chiwa then the whole plot becomes moot IMO. Hopefully volume 8 is released soon.