(L+CR) Tsujou Kougeki ga Zentai Kougeki de 2-kai Kougeki no Okaasan wa Suki desu ka?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Estzero1

Now it makes sense (in hindsight) when Masato said Medhi couldn't become his heroine. Is this girl lowkey a yandere? Probably not but there are at least some tendencies, especially against potential rivals. Not sure what to think about this.

She's not a yandere because she doesn't have any dere. Her dere act with Masato in episode 8 was just.... well, and act. Her real personality is what you see now. lol

[Estzero1]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

With all he's endured he deserves a chance to truly own the spotlight. Not that he'll get it, he's totally the Butt Monkey of the show.

As of right now, yes. But isn't is more or less the endgoal of the series that Masato will achieve what he want's?

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She's not a yandere because she doesn't have any dere. Her dere act with Masato in episode 8 was just.... well, and act. Her real personality is what you see now. lol

A bit saddening. Though it makes things easier. Less shipping I suppose .

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

She's not a yandere because she doesn't have any dere. Her dere act with Masato in episode 8 was just.... well, and act. Her real personality is what you see now. lol

This is pretty much the very nature of the dorodere. The "dere" is just an act put on by someone who doesn't want people to know how nasty a person they really are inside.

[Frontier]

I don't know if the Dere is completely an act since she seems to try and act genuinely affectionate even without the aphrodisiac, but she just still has ulterior motives behind it .

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Frontier

she seems to try and act genuinely affectionate even without the aphrodisiac.

It's an act to get a head start in the party. Medhi is an opportunistic kind of gal.

[moridin84]

I'm not really clear about Medhi's character.

I guess that she wants to be a good person and she wants her friends to like her. So she's not really a bad person.

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

It's no wonder Masato wants to be an awesome hero who even his mother can't compare to after this much glory hogging. With all he's endured he deserves a chance to truly own the spotlight. Not that he'll get it, he's totally the Butt Monkey of the show.

Everyone is supposed to be the protagonist of their own story.

Unfortunately, his mother is the protagonist and "his story" has turned into mother/son consulting sessions :/

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Estzero1

As of right now, yes. But isn't is more or less the endgoal of the series that Masato will achieve what he want's?

No at all. It's actually the opposite. What the story wants for Masato is to drop his delusions and get over his nonsensical obsession of becoming a light novel hero.

For better or worse, Masato's not the hero of the story. That doesn't mean he can't get a moment in the spotlight, but he will never be the center of the group. And rather than getting all self-absorbed and delusional about it, he has to get over it.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No at all. It's actually the opposite. What the story wants for Masato is to drop his delusions and get over his nonsensical obsession of becoming a light novel hero.

For better or worse, Masato's not the hero of the story. That doesn't mean he can't get a moment in the spotlight, but he will never be the center of the group. And rather than getting all self-absorbed and delusional about it, he has to get over it.

This is not an actual isekai. Masato is playing a computer game. An MMORPG. Where his class is literally "hero".

How is he "delusional" by wanting to actually play the game? Kill monsters, complete quests? Wanting to save damsels in distress?

Masato's problem is that his mother is around him almost 24/7 and solves any problems before he even has a chance to even try.

What do you think he should do? Just listen to whatever his mother tells him and let her solve whatever problems that happen? Is that the lesson he should be taking from playing this game? What about when he exits the game? Do you think he can live the rest of his life like that?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by moridin84

This is not an actual isekai. Masato is playing a computer game. An MMORPG. Where his class is literally "hero".

It's not a regular MMORPG. It's a game that caters to mothers. Being the "hero" just means he's the actual hero's son.

Originally Posted by moridin84

What do you think he should do?

Drop the stupid delusions of grandeur and enjoy the ride for what it is, a chance to get closer to his mother, to learn more about her, and maybe learn from her. He should see her as an example, not an obstacle or an opponent. She's the kindest and most selfless person he knows. He should feel inspired by such a mother and strive to be more like her.

[BWTraveller]

If that's the point of the story then the anime at the least is doing a VERY poor job. He doesn't come across as "delusional" at all. He just comes across as someone who wants to do some things for himself and prove that he can handle himself, a desire completely understandable and healthy for a teenager who's old enough to work part-time and fast approaching the age where he'll be on his own entirely. This episode was the first time there was any indication of a serious fantasy like that, and as I said before it's completely understandable. The fantasy just doesn't come across as the delusion of an unhealthy brat who needs to grow up but as the natural reaction of someone who's never been allowed ANY freedom or independence or self-accomplishment. He doesn't come across as wanting to be a "light novel protagonist" but rather just wanting to be strong enough that he doesn't need to be beg for scraps only to find that half the time those scraps meant next to nothing. And seriously, defining it entirely as "he needs to get over himself" is in my opinion a dangerous message because, again, he's old enough to work and just two or three years away from having the responsibility to be the SOLE protagonist of his own story. The way things have been portrayed, if Mamako got her way he'd continue to be the secondary character for the rest of his life, incapable of independence. Even if he got married I couldn't see her path leading him to moving out, or if he did he'd end up just as dependent on his wife.

This is like a really bad rendition of a common story. There's plenty of stories where a parent is struggling to be a part of their kid's life, but part of the point of that struggle is the need for balance on account of the fact that the kid IS growing up and DOES need some independence, as soon the parent's role is going to shrink substantially and the kid needs to be ready to live for himself. The kid's wish to live his own life is natural and healthy, if perhaps excessive, and the parent needs to allow it to some degree. This seems to be throwing the entire concept of balance out the window and declaring that any desire for independence or accomplishment is a "childish delusion".

[Kazu-kun]

Actually, this episode demonstrated Masato's problem pretty well. There were people (like actual people, not NPCs and whatnot) that needed help, but Masato was too busy with his delusions. Mamako decided that helping those people was more important than clearing the tower, much to Masato's disappointment, and the girls agreed with her. I think it's pretty clear who was the selfish one here.

And that's the problem with Masato. He dreams of being a hero but all his decisions are driven by self-interest. That's not very heroic. And the worst is he doesn't even realize the most heroic and selfless person he knows is right there besides him. He should see her as an example to strive for. He would learn to be the best man he can be following her lead.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's not a regular MMORPG. It's a game that caters to mothers. Being the "hero" just means he's the actual hero's son.

The game contains monsters, quests and everything I mentioned.

His mother isn't interested in those elements at all. She just deals with them the same way she deals with laundry. It would be fun for him but for her it's just a chore.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Drop the stupid delusions of grandeur and enjoy the ride for what it is

He should "enjoy the ride for what it is"? What should he be doing differently?

He's trying to play the game but she's interfering constantly. And then you have the government making him fix other mother/child relationships, even though that's their job.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

a chance to get closer to his mother, to learn more about her

He's already really, really close to her. Any closer and it's incest.

"Learn more about her" is pretty vague. Like, learn what and for what reason? What could learning it change?

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He should see her as an example, not an obstacle or an opponent. She's the kindest and most selfless person he knows. He should feel inspired by such a mother and strive to be more like her.

She's actually pretty selfish.

Masato wants her to give him space. She refuses because that's not what she wants. That's the entire source of conflict between her and Masato. If she was as selfless as you think then she would have backed off while supporting him as much as he needed.

Actually, she's spent most of the anime doing whatever she wants. She follows along with Masato generally but whenever she really wants to do something different she does goes and does it, completely ignoring what Masato wants. Even if it makes him unhappy. That's 70% of the comedy.


Also, the real reason she's willing to help those people is that she's just following her ideal/obsession of "being a mother". Helping those people with their mother/child relationship validates her own beliefs. Of course, it's not like she's a bad person. But Masato went and helped Wise and Meidhi without him asked so he's hardly a self-centred jerk himself.

[BWTraveller]

Yes, he's a little off on his priorities, again a predictable reaction to having never been given any real independence. But I felt it was less "I want to be an LN hero" and more "they're about to get to the top and get ANY WISH THEY WANT granted, gotta stop them. He's thinking "we're the 'heroes', we need to stop this before it endangers more people" while she's thinking "screw the world, I just want them to be safe". Frankly, neither one is thinking well and the ones that thought right were the girls who said "there's too few to conquer the dungeon, so we'll be able to do the latter and don't have to worry that much about such big consequences".

While I agree that he's not exactly perfect and he feels a little unmotivated by the idea of continuing this constant repetition of doing whatever his mom says, but his mom isn't all that much better and I strongly disagree with this claim that she's the "most heroic and selfless person". If she's the most heroic and selfless person he knows that only indicates to me that she's kept him VERY sheltered indeed to the point that he really doesn't know much of anyone, because she strikes me as AT LEAST as delusional as you claim he is. And the girls didn't seem to be saying so much that "Mamako's right and you're wrong" as "the danger's not as bad as you think so we can foil them without going that far".

[Kazu-kun]

I can help but feel the point of the show is lost and you guys. But to each their own, I guess.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Yes, he's a little off on his priorities, again a predictable reaction to having never been given any real independence. But I felt it was less "I want to be an LN hero" and more "they're about to get to the top and get ANY WISH THEY WANT granted, gotta stop them. He's thinking "we're the 'heroes', we need to stop this before it endangers more people" while she's thinking "screw the world, I just want them to be safe". Frankly, neither one is thinking well and the ones that thought right were the girls who said "there's too few to conquer the dungeon, so we'll be able to do the latter and don't have to worry that much about such big consequences".

I'm pretty sure that Masato is just thinking "woo let's capture the dungeon". I mean, it's just a game. It probably wouldn't be a big deal even if the other guys got their wish instead.

Whereas Mamako is just thinking that she wants to help the mothers with getting their children back.

[BWTraveller]

Indeed to each his own. You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not agree with it. If anything, I'd say the best and most stable characters are the girls, particularly Wise. Mamako strikes me as severely delusional, unable to accept that her baby boy isn't a baby anymore, who ends up harming him with her excessive behavior brought on by said delusions. And while she claims to care about his feelings she rarely seems to actually pay any attention to them. Masato in turn is so bent by this that he's not really about to be entirely rational either, so desperate for some personal accomplishment and independence that it leads him to seek excessive heroics when he was always supposed to provide minor help to individuals' problems, not huge acts to save the world. Basically, my opinion has not changed since the beginning: every mother-child pair is broken, and in every case the mothers are part of the problem, Mamako included. The only healthy people are those that have managed, with or without help, to overcome their parent-child problems. As a result, things have made it to a point where the girls that have been saved are the ones who really know what's what.

[Diet]

I think that there is a boom of yearning for motherhood in Japanese 2D world behind this anime. Of course it is the first time that MC's real mom as a main heroine
in anime history but an exhausted guys who need motherhood are trying to find motherhood even in lolis sometimes.
So Mamako is true goddess for some people. I'm watching this anime in legal streaming site of Japan but chat room is fulfiled by words like "mommy! Where are you?"
"Mamako mammy!" "Kayano mommy!"

Most of them are joke or meme but anyway, MILF main heroine of anime is very meaningful. Esp. if she was MC's real mom.

[usspaul]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's not a regular MMORPG. It's a game that caters to mothers. Being the "hero" just means he's the actual hero's son.



Drop the stupid delusions of grandeur and enjoy the ride for what it is, a chance to get closer to his mother, to learn more about her, and maybe learn from her. He should see her as an example, not an obstacle or an opponent. She's the kindest and most selfless person he knows. He should feel inspired by such a mother and strive to be more like her.

the problem with this game is it doesnt do what its intended to do and help these mother get closer to there kids. It never will with the appoach that this so called game is doing. There is nothing inspired about being in a party that your not even really apart of. How can you even call that a party ? when all you do is say i wanna kill a monster but then big old selfish mother goes nope you just sit there mr npc.

yeha your precious mamako is selfish in that she like to belittle other mother and tell them what they should be doing when she doesnt even take her own damn advice when it comes down to it. She keep preaching how you need to listen to your kids well she doesnt even do that herself and comes off as some pompos ass.

this show or novel is like this you have a friend that tells you to come over to his place to play games together you get there to play and then the friend AKA mamako goes oh i only have 1 controller so you sit there and watch me play all day. Wow sound like so much fun. You exspect to be able to play together but more you watch someone else have fun playing while you watch and do shit.

the only decent character in this show was wise.

[James Rye]

Heh, Medhi the dark Healer can say quite the hurtful things. That and her healing powers are pretty much useless given Mamako defeats everything with one hit and yet even so she managed to take Wise's only point to shine: Revival. XD
And Mamako is about to lose? No way, I have a hard time imagining that! oO

[James Rye]

Lol, Medhi didn't even spare the moms asking for heals of their various issues. xD
Mom is so OP she can calm down bombs with headpats! Also first time someone actually wanted sexy time (why is that even possible in a Mom-Son RPG? <.<) with Mamako and had the kink of everyone watching. Like is this a virtual crime? Poor Ma-kun has to lead a party of Moms, he already sacrificed Wise to their many demands. This isn't what I would see as a fun dungeon raid. ^^;