US Elections 2016 Part II: The Debates & General Election

[Akito Kinomoto]

I'm not surprised, considering America is an oligarchy

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by MCAL

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...122593759.html

So basically as a democracy North Carolina is considered one of the worst in the WORLD. That's right. Not COUNTRY... WORLD.

A preview of what's to come no doubt.

What's there to worry about? As we've learned from our American friends the US is a republic, so it's no problem if there's a deficit in democratic principles.

[frivolity]

Originally Posted by MCAL

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...122593759.html

So basically as a democracy North Carolina is considered one of the worst in the WORLD. That's right. Not COUNTRY... WORLD.

A preview of what's to come no doubt.

That was a hilarious article. Gave me a good laugh that will probably last the whole morning.

[MCAL]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us..._medium=Social

And now Trump is asking for this...

[Serovectra]

Originally Posted by MCAL

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...122593759.html

So basically as a democracy North Carolina is considered one of the worst in the WORLD. That's right. Not COUNTRY... WORLD.

A preview of what's to come no doubt.

Perhaps that has something to do with North Carolina never being a Democracy, and the same applies to the entire United States.

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic..."

[Akito Kinomoto]

Trump calls for stronger nukes until the world "comes to it senses"

Trump saying the world needs to come to its senses is like an arsonist telling you to listen to Smokey Bear. The clown who doesn't believe in anthropogenic climate change is going to say the world needs to come to its senses? Aaalrighty then

[KiraYamatoFan]

I'm sorry, but anyone who believes nuclear superpowers are better off building even more nukes is a f***ing ***hole. There is just no other way to call it. When was the last time we had a US president publicly advocating for more nukes anyway?

[ganbaru]

Don't forget, it's coming from the same candidate than asked why they (the US) aren't using their nuke.

[The Green One]

Wonder how long it'll be before Trump tries to nuke somebody for looking at him funny.


*sigh*

[MrTerrorist]

Hopefully Mad Dog will smack some sense into him and tell him that's a dumb idea since america's current nuclear arsenal is deadly enough to the whole world and we don't need more.

[Key Board]

I don't know how someone can be both anti-Semite and pro-Zionist at the same time

but recent events sure showed me that's a thing a apparently..

maybe some people just don't know what their creed are

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I don't know how someone can be both anti-Semite and pro-Zionist at the same time

but recent events sure showed me that's a thing a apparently..

maybe some people just don't know what their creed are

That is actually very much a thing, but only in America.

The idea being that a decent percentage of the population belong to a Christian denomination, Evangelicalism, that believe Rapture can only start when all the Jews return to Jerusalem and rebuilt their temple. Thus Zionism became a requirement for Evangelicalism. This in practice meant absolute and unyielding desire to maintain the nation of Israel at all costs.

However, Rapture requires that all the Jews convert or die during the event according to Evangelism. So it is entirely consistent to be an anti-semite at the same time.

Israel is entirely aware that these Evangelical supporters actually loath them and desire their physical and spiritual annihilation, but since they don't believe in a Christian Rapture it doesn't bother them so much.

[MCAL]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...=twitter_nymag
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...itution-232994

Because shutting down the government because the Supreme Court said Obamacare was constitutional is okay, but live-streaming a protest because people are being unnecessarily murdered... Extremely, extremely evil.

[Key Board]

so are Evangelicals like ISIL and consider Trump to be the anti-christ?

Someone that don't like all, but welcome none the less, because it advances their doomsday prophecy ?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Key Board

so are Evangelicals like ISIL and consider Trump to be the anti-christ?

Someone that don't like all, but welcome none the less, because it advances their doomsday prophecy ?

At least one woman who was interviewed, claimed that she voted Trump for that reason. But we can't be sure how many others agree with her.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Serovectra

Perhaps that has something to do with North Carolina never being a Democracy, and the same applies to the entire United States.

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic..."

I think it's curious how people in the US have a different understanding of democracy compared to the rest of the world. People in the US (or at least the people here in this thread) interpret democracy as the specific form of direct democracy. Meanwhile the rest of the world interprets democracy as the general governing principle of people's rule through free elections. I have never heard a British citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a monarchy" or a German citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a republic". And I would like to point out that the principles of democracy (free elections) and an adherence of the principles of human rights (in theory) is what seperates a republic like the United States from a republic like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[Serovectra]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I think it's curious how people in the US have a different understanding of democracy compared to the rest of the world. People in the US (or at least the people here in this thread) interpret democracy as the specific form of direct democracy. Meanwhile the rest of the world interprets democracy as the general governing principle of people's rule through free elections. I have never heard a British citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a monarchy" or a German citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a republic". And I would like to point out that the principles of democracy (free elections) and an adherence of the principles of human rights (in theory) is what seperates a republic like the United States from a republic like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or the Islamic Republic of Iran.

We're a Constitutional Republic. The key difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that a Republic protects the rights of the minority even when the majority wishes to impede upon those rights. In a Republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority. We are similar to a representative democracy but the elected of a Republic are bound by oath to the written governing limits (ie constitution) yet vote together and create laws to address concerns of the represented in a democratic way. It would be inaccurate to call the USA a Democracy, even the constitution says we are a Republic.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

It is certainly interesting that several blatantly tyranical governments in the world attempt to pretend to be domocratic when they aren't.

And yet at least in the US of A, there is now a movement to be loud and proud in exaggerating about how undemocratic America is, as if it is justified, as if that is what the Founding Fathers intended so it is okay. That somehow America never liked democracy anyway.

This of course, is rather silly, as seen from America's own propaganda back during the Cold War. But I guess if North Korea and China can re-write History, Americans can too.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Serovectra

We're a Constitutional Republic. The key difference between a Republic and a Democracy is that a Republic protects the rights of the minority even when the majority wishes to impede upon those rights. In a Republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority. We are similar to a representative democracy but the elected of a Republic are bound by oath to the written governing limits (ie constitution) yet vote together and create laws to address concerns of the represented in a democratic way. It would be inaccurate to call the USA a Democracy, even the constitution says we are a Republic.

Yea, the distinction is that the Constitution is the highest law of the land, which helps prevent against "mob rule" where the majority decides to persecute the minority which has no chance because they are outnumbered. So let's say 55% of people across many states want to do something really stupid, they can't just hold a vote and suddenly force me to go along, and I'm generally free of bullshit elsewhere unless people in my own state want to go full retard. (well, I suppose presidential elections are the one exception but fortunately there's still a number of restrictions on that) And then we have various methods to prevent it as such or rule it unconstitutional. But in any case, that's how one's rights can be protected under the system. The tenth amendment, in particular, is the most important parts of any discussion regarding this.


Now, that obviously doesn't mean it's foolproof. Many times the interpretations can get "stretched" and that's what a number of folks greatly resent. In reality I don't think it's that exceptional but the principle is held in higher regard. I guess the whole thing is a matter of semantics.

Though, I suppose none of this justifies any attempt at gerrymandering or voter disenfranchisement which the article was trying to get at although the facts it provided seemed a bit murky.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I think it's curious how people in the US have a different understanding of democracy compared to the rest of the world. People in the US (or at least the people here in this thread) interpret democracy as the specific form of direct democracy. Meanwhile the rest of the world interprets democracy as the general governing principle of people's rule through free elections. I have never heard a British citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a monarchy" or a German citizen say "we are not a democracy, we are a republic". And I would like to point out that the principles of democracy (free elections) and an adherence of the principles of human rights (in theory) is what seperates a republic like the United States from a republic like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea or the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Fair enough, we in the US definitely view things differently, but at least I hope I've established a signfigantly diffrent framework to work with to make it distinct enough from North Korea. Considering North Korea is fully named "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" and the later isn't even a legitimate state, I don't think anyone should pay much heed to how those are named. They could name it Fluffy Ponies Land and it wouldn't matter.

[Ithekro]

Wasn't there a saying about the more government types one puts in their countries name, the more likely it is to be a dictatorship?