2012-05-22, 16:26 | Link #28961 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Yet.
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2012-05-22, 16:51 | Link #28962 | |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Also for your Harry Potter example to work, she would have had to try to "reconstruct" the whole Villa, or even the whole Island. |
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2012-05-22, 19:19 | Link #28963 | |
lorem ipsum dolor sit ame
Artist
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA, USA
Age: 30
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(Just imagine the horrors if Ange got her own theme park.... A Mount Purgatory Rollercoaster with Sakutaro cars and all the prizes from games are pink hairclips....)
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2012-05-22, 21:15 | Link #28964 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Wait a minute... are we even sure that Ange playing around with Mammon in Alliance is Prime? How do we know that maybe it isn't Ange writing down her thoughts in a private place, perhaps creating the foundation of "Sakutarou's adventure"?
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Last edited by RandomAvatarFan; 2012-05-22 at 21:26. |
2012-05-22, 22:18 | Link #28965 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Honestly, the specific timeline of Ange's collective misadventures is probably one of the trippiest things in the series, even putting aside that we've probably seen no less than 3 seperate instances of the girl. She has, at variois points, gone to the past, gone to the future, gone to the future while she was in the future of the past THEN jumped a Meta layer while observing herself from the previous layer, been a player, observer, reader, piece, witch, witch-hunter, and all other manner of WTF-ery. ...however, it was definitely my impression that Alliance showed us why she was so damned miserable at school. She was a withdrawn girl with survivor guilt, worsened by Eva's eventually sour attitude, worsened STILL by her opting to build herself a murder harem instead of socializing of even studying. It's the playing around with Mammon that gives us the context for when she orders the Stakes to kill her classmates, or when she witnesses what magic "really is" while inside Kawabata's shop. |
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2012-05-23, 00:01 | Link #28966 | |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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And by the way, the Ushiromiya family mansion was her family's home, and the place that they died, so it's not the same thing.
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2012-05-23, 01:43 | Link #28967 | |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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And in Yukari's case I believe it's rewarded in the end. Despite so called concrete evidence that Battler was gone, she finally got to meet Touya, who was more or less Battler. So, "believing in magic" can really simply translate to "believing in hope". But of course, some people can then say this view itself is an escapism. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, after all. It's best to doubt anything and everything and never be satisfied with any given answer, not even your own. But then again, some people just wants to live in peace and I can't really blame them.
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2012-05-23, 02:23 | Link #28968 |
The True Culprit
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That's very valid, but Ryukishi himself doesn't make a distinction between Yukari's worldview and how Maria, Yasu, and the younger Ange believed and behaved. Read the way Ryukishi really wrote it, it prints out to simply validating that way of thinking, instead of demonstrating a transformation from childlike escapism to hope in the face of reality.
And that's the problem.
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2012-05-23, 04:00 | Link #28969 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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As for the message, I mean specifically the way Ange can choose to believe the best in Eva/ Or for more Ep 8 goodness, the point that since she can't really know what happened on that day and her family can't always have been terrible, she might just as well think everyone had a nice time together before dying. I also thought the magic she taught orphans was how to find the happiness in their life where they could. I can even apply it to a recent real world example I came across, but it seems soppy and long winded to mention it here. |
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2012-05-23, 06:18 | Link #28970 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Also, once again unrelated, in regards to Hideyoshi in ep 5 twilight whichever he is killed in (I thought TW meant twilight, but eh), was he actually killed? Because I don't remember if others arrived before Eva and could fake the chain being cut...
Furthermore, was Rudolf's "I'm probably going to be killed tonight" a clue to being in on the murder thing, or him being all dramatic about telling Kyrie that he stole her baby (or knowing her, maybe not so dramatic) Last edited by GuestSpeaker; 2012-05-23 at 06:47. |
2012-05-23, 07:13 | Link #28971 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The scene of EP2 where we see Beatrice and the adults in the chapel, making them admit the witch's existence, the red truth in EP4 stating that "everyone recognized Kinzo's exitence", as well as the fact that almost invariably in every game we are not made to know what happens in the late night family meeting, suggests that the adults are made to take part in the plan at that time, and not before.
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2012-05-23, 08:59 | Link #28972 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I thought the Kinzo thing may have been a literal reference to where the gold was kept. If you examine that scene carefully in Ep 4 you see Beato couldn't refute Battler's blue due to it encroaching upon ShKannon territory, so how accurate it was outside of that is sort of null and void (clever move Ryu)
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2012-05-23, 17:25 | Link #28973 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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1. Everyone is in the parlor. They agree to take a break. 2. Natsuhi goes to guest room closet. Hideyoshi enters the same room, and locks the door behind him. 3. Natsuhi hears Hideyoshi being murdered. During the struggle, Eva can hear through the door, bangs on it, and runs to get help. 4. Everyone (sans Natsuhi) hurries to the guest room with bolt cutters. Erika, however, goes outside to check the shutters/windows, and meets them at the room a few moments later. 5. Erika does not enter the guest room, OR examine the corpse. Hideyoshi's body is covered with sheets and carried out. The entire group returns to the parlor. Natsuhi leaves the closet to follow several moments later. If I recall correctly, Erika claims to have found one of Natsuhi's buttons in the closet during her later investigation. I don't think we have a lot of CHOICE other than "Hideyoshi was faking", especially since we know Eva's piece can be made to raise all kinds of ruckus as drama requires (for example, according to the reds, she DEFINITELY KNEW George was still alive, yet still stomped and wailed and beat the shit of Natsuhi later for it). Also, regarding Kinzo, I always thought "acknowledged his existence" just meant that the parents were brought to ACKNOWLEDGE that he was freakin' dead. I dunno how particular Japanese is on the distinction between terms like "exist" / "alive", but ... there isn't too too much of a trick there, anyways. Hideyohi's death is also extremely weird because he is presumably a Second Twilight death, yet dies alone. |
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2012-05-23, 18:40 | Link #28975 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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According to how you interpret it, it can mean: to kill two people who love each other to kill one of the two overmentioned people to cause one of the two overmentioned people to disappear. In short everything goes as long as you part two people who love each other (not necessarily in a romantical way as parting Rosa/Maria still works) |
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2012-05-23, 19:51 | Link #28976 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Yes, that's perfectly true. It's just, there's no precedence for anything beyond "kill two people". Legend and Turn went for an established couple, Banquet went mother/daughter, and Alliance went cousin/cousin.
The only counterpoints are Hideyoshi in End, which is ALREADY riddled with oddities, Kanon in Dawn, though who knows if that even ... counts, and the fact that solving the epitaph in Requiem didn't involve removing letters. Well, the "one lover disappears" angle was used kinda-sorta in Turn, with Kanon, but his death was announced almost immediately, so... |
2012-05-24, 04:45 | Link #28978 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Beat would be all over that sort of emotional blackmail. Or Bern would promise it and have someone else kill him or something.
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Also poor Natsuhi, she sure got messed over in that game. People KNEW she was in there... |
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2012-05-24, 16:35 | Link #28979 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Ha, I never looked at it that way. Now that I think about it, that's indeed one of the only cases where the group doesn't search the entire room a victim was in (I think). |
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2012-05-24, 20:41 | Link #28980 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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KnownNoMore's theory actually has the cousins' deaths being faked with only Nanjo knowing. Battler and the others were merely convinced that the (fake) wounds they saw were impossible to live through. Incidentally, KnownNoMore also has a solution for the knock in EP5 that doesn't involve "everyone there is lying": The trick is that the knock wasn't actually at midnight (someone set the clock forward or back a few minutes), so all the 24:00 stuff from Lambda is just a distraction. I don't agree with most of his ideas, including these, but I have to admit he saw some interesting angles that I didn't see. |
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