ViVid Strike! Anime General Discussion Thread

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Gx Hero

Well from that point of view yes, but from a plot point of view not so much. Nanoha had to confront fate one last time. I don't think it would have had the same affect if nanoha had fought fate on the garden of time.


Anyway I think we all agree to a degree about what vivid strikes problems are.

Allow me to clarify. I think Nanoha fighting Fate was a necessary step in their relationship and as a point in the right direction for her healing process. The reason I said their fight wasn't necessary was from an entirely logical standpoint. Chrono could have stepped in during the fight, captured Fate, Precia would have reacted and revealed her location and started her plan short of Jewel Seeds, incident would have ended the same except for Fate's mental condition.

I only brought that up because 4th said Fuuka/Rinne fight is pointless while Nanoha/Fate was unavoidable. NanoFate fight was entirely avoidable, if you want to be cold and logical. The only real difference between the fights is that no one's life is on the line right now nor is there a major incident going on.

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

.
During the second one they kind of HAD to fight because they would not be able to get their hands on the rest of the seeds and apparently they also needed to trace the location from which Prescia wa throwing those trans dimensional attacks of hers, and Arf certainly would not have helped if they abandoned Fate. Actually Chrono is prefectly fine with Nanoha and Fate fighing in the original, because he is a massive edgelord there, since even if Fate wins she will be weak enough for them to be able to easily overwhelm her.
So in a way some of it could have been resolved without fighting once TSAB got involved but it certanly would not have ended well since fighting was the ONLY way to get to F.

It was the 2nd fight I was talking about. Capturing Fate instead of allowing them to fight would have yielded the same results as Nanoha beating her. They didn't need to track Fate back to the Garden because Precia revealed herself when Fate lost, and they traced her location directly. She would have been forced to do the same had Fate been captured by the TSAB.

All I'm getting at is that you can't say Fuuka/Rinne fight is unnecessary when its being allowed for the exact same reason Nanoha and Fate's fight was, and when both have reasonable alternate solutions

[4th Dimension]

That is true to a point, although I don't think ti would be as simple as you think to capture Fate had Chrono interfered. Also Nanoha has already proven that she can be a bit illogical when Fate is concerned sooooo it was more efficient and more likely to result in success to weaken Fate by pitting her against Nanoha than to face her himself.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

That is true to a point, although I don't think ti would be as simple as you think to capture Fate had Chrono interfered. Also Nanoha has already proven that she can be a bit illogical when Fate is concerned sooooo it was more efficient and more likely to result in success to weaken Fate by pitting her against Nanoha than to face her himself.

Supplementary material for the first season shows that Chrono can handle Fate at full strength quite easily. It was just in Fate's best interest for Nanoha to be the one to fight her.

[4th Dimension]

I'll just pop a quick few observations on the new 11th episode untill the actual thread gets posted (which should be tomorow? in 12h?).

A LOT of what we see in this episode with flashbacks and whatnot should have been shown a LOT sooner. If that had been done properly (and they avoided making her the only one giving out cripling injuries) Rinne would not appear as callous and bad as she did.
But the way they did things is as if in As we learned about Hayate and her relationship with Wolkenritter only during the final fight, after watching an entire season of them beating on TSAB personell and the heroes. We would not have been sympathetic to them at all.

Also Jill is literally the worst. She knew things were wrong with Rinne but willfully decided to ignore it since it gave her someone she could use to prove her theories. A significant breach of how a charge under her care (especially a minor) should be handled.

This episode contains some really strong hits, and the fact that both girls seemingly survive them with no lasting damage, thanks largely to protection fields that Alpine use is another log on the fire ready of the organizers of the cup who willfully did not provide adequate protection to protect their young athletes. Really they should have be sued.

Rinne's explanation why Fuka's strikes hurt so much did not really work for me, or maybe it's a bad translation/I did not understand her.

The strength: It's a thing that had been bugging me for a while, but I really don't like how every new character is like B or A level at less than 15. It kind of devalues Nanoha and Fate who were the outliers before.

[Rising Dragon]

Nanoha is a rare prodigy because she comes from an otherwise magic-less planet, but started out naturally with an immense mana reserve from the get-go before any training she underwent. Fate's magical strength is artificially gifted to her because she's an augmented clone, so she hardly counts when it comes to "natural" talent.

[B214]

I wouldn't really call Fate's magical strength artificially gifted. Erio & Vvio are Project F clones too but neither of them have the same level of magic as Fate has. And her original self Alicia doesn't seem to have magic, it's more like Fate inherited the magic power from her mother than Alicia didn't inherit.

[Rising Dragon]

Alicia did have magic, actually, and it contributed to Precia's instability concerning Fate. Fate's magic color (gold) did not match up to Alicia's (blue), and was the same color as the light that killed Alicia in the first place. IIRC it's stated that Fate's magic ability is greater than Alicia's, too. So yeah, Fate is definitely an augmented clone, with artificially strengthened magic power.

[Nvis]

Did Rinne's last punch missed intentionally?

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nanoha is a rare prodigy because she comes from an otherwise magic-less planet, but started out naturally with an immense mana reserve from the get-go before any training she underwent. Fate's magical strength is artificially gifted to her because she's an augmented clone, so she hardly counts when it comes to "natural" talent.

That was kind of my point. They were special since such amounts of mana/strength at that age was a RARE thing. The crew of Artha were struck dumb when they saw Nanoha and Fate going all out on each other. Yet now we have seemingly really strong magic users poping out of the woodwork all over the place.

Oh I'm aware that they could have easily retconned it later on, but still the change is something that is bugging me.

[Rising Dragon]

It's always been like that, though. Even StrikerS had that problem; Ginga, Subaru, Teana, Erio, and Caro were all special in their own ways, lower ranks starting out or not.

[4th Dimension]

Ehh, in the case of StrikerS it kind of made sense since the forwards were basically an attempt to do something productive with all these weirdos (from all over TSA space) TSAB had lying around. Also Ginga and Subaru were cyborgs, meaning they were made to be strong, and therefore they don't really count when considering the statistics. Same could be probably said for Erio.

But now on just Midchilda we have loads of powerful kids.
Then again this could be another case of writers forgetting (which they did in StrikerS too I admit) that Midchilda is not the entirety of TSA.

[RDNexus]

Given that there are other competitors in those tournaments, there could be a chance some or most of them were from other Administrated Worlds.

[4th Dimension]

Ehhhh, considering that DSAA before this was the tournament for only Midchilda (or maybe only Cragan (or whatever the capitol city/province is called)) I kind of doubt it. Especially considering that top competitors seem all to be from the same city.

Possible but not likely, it seems they again forgot their geography.

[Rising Dragon]

More likely than you think. Remember, Lutecia was an offworld participant.

[4th Dimension]

Could be. I reread ch 16 when they talk about the Inter middle and they call it city tournament. That would mean the participants should be persons from the city. But as you say Alpine girl's official residence is not even on the same planet.
Now that could be explained in a variety of reasons. 1) She is able to participate since she is at this point a member of TSAB if I remember. 2) She is from a colony world administered by Midchilda that is too small to hold it's own tournament so competitors form it are allowed to participate in InterMiddle; 3) The tournament is called city tournament but there are no restrictions on persons from outside the city or offplanet to participate. It's kind of not in the interest of a offworlder to try qualifying here considering the strenght of the competition but there is also lot of prestige and Lu wants to participate there coz this was the tornament her mother used to be a participant in too; 4) The writer thought up the system that would allow them to later pull out of nowhere new stronger opponents by claiming they are from offworld and that is why they were not in InterMiddle, but then decided to make an exception so he could play with LuLu.


Considering the crossection of participants we have seen, even if it's not a local tournament, we should be able to agree that, off world participants are RARE.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

That was kind of my point. They were special since such amounts of mana/strength at that age was a RARE thing. The crew of Artha were struck dumb when they saw Nanoha and Fate going all out on each other. Yet now we have seemingly really strong magic users poping out of the woodwork all over the place.

Oh I'm aware that they could have easily retconned it later on, but still the change is something that is bugging me.

I feel it's been a problem since the first Vivid. The TSAB's starved enough for good mages they use child soldiers which they make into officers... but here we are in Mid, wasting them on blood sports.

And Olivie was the heroic King of Belka who's worshiped to this day... but it turns out her clone's super weak and you can't throw a stone without hitting some other king?

[4th Dimension]

The second one was sort of made sense by explaining that A) Olivie had the power core relic in her even before she was considered for the Cradle which allowed her to be more powerfull, Vivio lacks this and B) While even without the power core Vivio would have had a strong LinkerCore (reputedly she could have shrugged off Dieci's big gun attack) Nanoha wrecked it as a side effect of her impromptu Starlight Breaker operation*.
So what she is left is the monster reflexes of Olivie, the drive to excell in close combat despite her being unsuitable (Olivie was also unsuitable for CQC since she had NO ARMS) but with no raw power Vi had.

* She probably did not intend to go for removal of the Power Core this way. She was probably hoping to be able to knock out Vivio so she can take her off the ship.

[Rising Dragon]

Vivio would've shrugged off Dieci's cannon not because of her Linker Core, but because of the Saint's Armor protection afforded by Olivie's bloodline. Vivio's capabilities in such were damaged after the Cradle incident, which is why she no longer has such a protection.

[4th Dimension]

Is that Saint's Armor different from that Vivio's super dangerous tehnique of defending only one spot? I mean do we know. The idea I got was Vivio's tehnique makes it look like she has Olivie's OP defence everywhere, whilst she really doesn't have it.

[Rising Dragon]

Saint's Armor is different from that, yes. IIRC it's basically treated as a dense AMF around Vivio's body.