(CR) Gen'ei o Kakeru Taiyo -Il sole penetra le illusioni-

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"Protestations" strike me as a bit too strong. Who is she protesting against? Even the head of the organization very clearly told them that they should run for it if they encounter their counterpart card. It's not like Ginka's superiors expect her and her allies/friends to boldly go to their death for the greater cause. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Heh, bad word choice, there. Sorry. But considering the rest of your post, you got what I meant to say. Let me address this:

Ginka's initial opinion of wanting to stay alive and not throw her life away seemed quite sensible and sincere to me given the overall circumstances. I certainly didn't see any reason to think she was being insincere there.

She wasn't insencere, there; it's just that I felt she was voicing off the default. Which was also what I meant with "no conviction":

I don't know what you mean by "no conviction behind it". You need conviction simply to want to stay alive? It's the opposite that calls for conviction, imo, and building that up in such a short span of time is, yes, a bit hard for me to swallow.

I'm going from little scenes scattered all through the show. The major one would be in one of the early episodes. She was talking to Seira about Akari's hearing those voices and sort of mediating. Then Seira leaves, and she stares at the night sky and says - apparently quite cheerfully - that both Akari and Seira have such strong convictions, and she has nothing.

I always had the feeling that she felt sort of left behind, with no clear motivation. Her break-out moment came when she killed her "uncle". She can summon immense determination when she needs it, but she rarely feels the need. Basically, she knows life from extreme sides: being poor sucks; being filthy rich is much more convenient, but that convenience is nothing to drag you through the fighting.

So what props Ginka up through her fights, if it's not being part of the team. But here, again, her lack of deep-seated motivation to fight fails her: she interprets this as missing something.

She could easily bounce back to the former cheerfulness after her "uncle's" erradication only because her cheerfulness has always been hollow. So, sure, she wants to survive; she's not suicidal. But surviving isn't a priority in the sense that finding meaning is to her. So if she finds meaning in that sort of sacrifice she can turn around with little hesitation. She certainly over-reacted, but that's, IMO, in character.

What I don't get is what sort of epiphany she had when talking to her dad. That's sort of a mystery to me, too (though I do have some vague ideas as you can see from my other post).

You speak of Ginka having a certain emptiness to her. And at a meta-level, I can see that. Her character lacked pathos, especially relative to Akari and Seira. But Ginka nonetheless seemed like a believable and basically normal person to me. I didn't get the impression that she was missing something essential.

I never really bought her apparent materialistic orientation, but it was mostly a hunch until I saw her own episode. It was, among other things, talking to her father's business partners so effortlessly, that made me think I've found the source of a certain disjoint between what she does and says that I felt but couldn't really pin down.

Anyway, I can absolutely be wrong about this. Or it's one of those things that will never conclusively be addressed, in which case I'm keeping my interpretation. (I prefer my interpretation to yours, because the show makes more sense to me with this one (at least so far); but a huge part of that is intuition and something I brought to the show from outside. So I'm not really arguing I'm right.)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Anyway, I can absolutely be wrong about this. Or it's one of those things that will never conclusively be addressed, in which case I'm keeping my interpretation. (I prefer my interpretation to yours, because the show makes more sense to me with this one (at least so far); but a huge part of that is intuition and something I brought to the show from outside. So I'm not really arguing I'm right.)

Well, my interpretation of Ginka's character isn't necessarily different than yours. I just think her choosing to throw her life away was a bit sudden even if your interpretation is correct (though admittedly your interpretation makes it somewhat defensible at least).

I don't doubt that Ginka was searching for a deeper sense of meaning and purpose, and hence envied the strong convictions of both Seira and Akari. Yes, that makes sense to me.

My difference of opinion with you isn't so much on characterization as it is on realism. I just don't find it realistic for a basically normal generally cheerful girl to so quickly muster up the courage necessary to kamikaze herself like this. She may have been searching for greater meaning, but she was far from suicidal.

Having Ginka's counterpart card immediately threatening someone's life would have made the difference for me. Then I could have probably bought it without too much trouble. But as is, I just feel like these girls are strangely complacent about their lives being on the line. It just baffles me that none of them seem to be trying to find a better way. None of them have even considered a containment strategy, for example (i.e. somehow entrap the counterpart card).

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

My difference of opinion with you isn't so much on characterization as it is on realism. I just don't find it realistic for a basically normal generally cheerful girl to so quickly muster up the courage necessary to kamikaze herself like this. She may have been searching for greater meaning, but she was far from suicidal.

I agree that she wasn't suicidal, but I don't quite buy your characterisation as a "basically normal generally cheerful girl". To me, that was simply a facade. It's not as simple as saying she was actually depressed; I don't think that. But I do think there was an important disjunct between the way she expresses herself and what she feels. That is: even when she feels cheerful, she can only express this with her tried and true mannerisms. I thought the voice actress (Tatsumi Yuiko) did a pretty good job portraying the situational differences: when she was with her father's business partners, with her friends, with her father, alone.

I'm still not quite sure where we're differing, but it may be a matter of emphasis. One thing I don't understand is her reasoning after talking to her father, and that makes it hard to figure out the extent to which we differ.

Having Ginka's counterpart card immediately threatening someone's life would have made the difference for me. Then I could have probably bought it without too much trouble. But as is, I just feel like these girls are strangely complacent about their lives being on the line. It just baffles me that none of them seem to be trying to find a better way. None of them have even considered a containment strategy, for example (i.e. somehow entrap the counterpart card).

I'm having trouble trusting the show when it comes to character, to be honest. I can say these things about Ginka, because I feel they're fundamental to her character. But a lot of it seems to point towards a more concept centred show than to a character centred show.

An example, since we're talking about Ginka. Last episode, they had a fun day out in the city. The other girls were running out of money, and Ginka pitched in. Then she ran out, too. Normally, I'd wonder about that running out. If she's that rich, she could easily have a credit card, or at least access to a cash machine. Not having that would, then, be part of characterisation (either directly, if it's her own choice, or via her upbringing, if it's her father's choice). But I don't really trust the show enough to put too much stake into something subtle like this.

Another example, from the first episode: Fuyuna was reading Camus' L'Étranger. In French. I'm sure that's partly characterisation, but frankly I think that's more of a clue on the philosophical basis of this show, or at the very least of her problems (it's not a nice book, and the unlikable protagonist ends with accepting his execution: if only he has an audience that properly hates him, he doesn't feel so lonely).

Because I'm expecting primarily a concept show, I'm not much bothered by that particular lack. I'm simply not expecting much realism, here.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

I'm still not quite sure where we're differing, but it may be a matter of emphasis.

You raised a good point on concept-centered show vs. character-centered show.

If we view Gen'ei as a concept-centered show, where it's more about characters representing certain ideas or concepts than it is about characters being "true to life", I think your overall explanation on Ginka and why her actions in this episode didn't seem sudden to you, makes sense.

But I'm still not sure if this show is more concept-centered or character-centered. To me, it seems to be straddling the line between the two. The rest of the show will probably be instructive here.

[elior]

i don't think ginka actually died because her counterpart was keep talking about combine with her so it possible after the battle ginka merged with her

[MisaoFan]

Spoiler for Episode 9:

This episode really killed me, but I will them my thoughts first. It's mostly an episode where Luna will take a break when she's returning to the mansion with her butler. Akari is there, and they spend a lot of fun together. I really liked how the bonding become since episode two, it was awesome. What really stabbed me (in the metaphorical sense) this episode is the scene where Akari is romantically talking to Luna when watching the moon together, and it turns that she isn't really Akari but Cerebrum while the real Akari is still at Sephiro Fiore! Because of it Luna is slowly turning into a Demonia. I was easily felt shocked after finished watching, I can't believe it turns so mind-numbing in cliffhangers lately. Considering the edgy nature of the story, I really really cannot help but feel that somehow Luna will get killed off by Akari and it end up going too emotionally terrible. Summer really had a bad end atmosphere for the magical girls (except Fantasista Doll) but there's still hope that our seductive heroines will probably survive, or else...

[Myssa Rei]

Ironically, people on Akari's side are STILL working under the assumption that turning into Daemonia is a natural occurence. Now that they know Cerebrum is actually around, just how hard is it to think that, maybe, someone is making people go Daemonia on purpose?

Poor Luna.

[Triple_R]

Well, perhaps for the first time in this show, I really felt something. Most emotionally impacting episode of Gen'ei yet.

Poor, poor Luna. The anime has done a splendid job of making her a very endearing, likeable, and pitiable character. I also really love the way the anime has handled Luna's romantic longing for Akari. It's not explicit, but its nonetheless implied in a truly unmistakeable way. There's just no way this can be believably chalked up to close platonic friendship at this point. Luna is totally head over heels for Akari, and deeply in love with her. It's a very strong, sincere love that makes Luna's overall situation pull that much more at the heartstrings.

That blue-haired boy is also becoming an excellent, slimy villain. Given all the trouble he's caused, and given what he did to Luna, I'm increasingly invested in seeing him get his just desserts. Should Akari ever confront him, and defeat him, directly, that will almost certainly be a very cathartic moment.

Both real Akari and fake!Akari were excellent in this episode. That blue-haired boy certainly is one helluva actor. All those interactions between Luna and "Akari" at Luna's Villa felt so real, making it easy to see how Luna was cruelly sucked in. Meanwhile, I really liked the discussions between the real Akari and Seira. I'm relieved to see Akari state some doubt over Ginka's chosen course of action. I feel like the characters in this show are finally getting real about the gravity of the situation. Perhaps Ginka's death is a wake-up call to everybody to start thinking a bit harder about what's going on with the Daemonia and try to come up with better and more creative solutions.

Finally, I even liked the butler in this episode. He played that roll to perfection. I think that even Alfred Pennyworth would have applauded.


This episode is the one where Gen'ei has come the closest to hitting the heights of Madoka Magica. Luna is like a strange and oddly compelling mix of Homura, Sayaka, and Hitomi at this point. Gen'ei is getting very good now. I'm definitely looking forward to more.

[Diveman]

I legit enjoyed this episode, strong emotions and developments here. I really hope they continue doing stuff like this and not go back to the usual episodes.

But yeah, Nebulum deserves an Oscar after this episode. The whole act was 100% believable.

[ThereminVox]

It was a nice touch when they lingered on the visiting Akari interacting with the flowers in the vase, and not causing any reaction. Subtle, but chilling. Especially since "she" seemed in no hurry to execute whatever was coming. Blue-hair's long con was masterful. Finally, he does more than just special-delivery the weekly baddie to the designated victim.

Most episodes so far have rather dulled their impact by introducing a conflict, or concept in the waning moments of the first half, only to either pay off or completely resolve the situation before the credits roll. It leaves one with only 5-10 minutes to generate any investment in the situation before the denouement packs it all away, and resets the board for next week. Not so this time around.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Diveman

I legit enjoyed this episode, strong emotions and developments here. I really hope they continue doing stuff like this and not go back to the usual episodes.

But yeah, Nebulum deserves an Oscar after this episode. The whole act was 100% believable.

It's nearing the endgame, Luna's the next Daemonica and it is only a matter of time before Seira is next followed by Akari.

[Myssa Rei]

Yikes, just a few episodes left, and still a lot of stuff to wrap up loose ends for. Are we sure this is just a 1-cour show? Sure doesn't feel like one. ^^;

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This episode is the one where Gen'ei has come the closest to hitting the heights of Madoka Magica. Luna is like a strange and oddly compelling mix of Homura, Sayaka, and Hitomi at this point. Gen'ei is getting very good now. I'm definitely looking forward to more.

On the other hand I got bored of this a few episodes back. I do feel sad that Luna got played pretty hard here, and those final moments of the episodes....yikes..., but while I can feel bad for her character I just can't feel anything about the plot. She didn't deserve that, but it was telegraphed that something horrible would happen to her since day one.

The further along the plot gets, the more I feel a great idea has turned into a mediocre one. It's to the point where I'm 99% sure that Luna will die next episode because once again there will be no solution but to kill the Daemonia, and the host with it. Then we'll get more angst, more questions, and nothing will change except the loss of another likeable character.

I'm still at a loss as to what the writers are hoping to accomplish. There's only four episodes left.

[novalysis]

Gen'ei is a very strange show. I think what's stopping this from matching Madoka Magica, is the strangely uneven quality of it's writing. The previous episode was so shoddily written, that Ginka's sacrifice might as well have come from a character introduced and killed off in one episode.

On the other hand, Episode 9 is, IMO, the best Gen'ei episode yet. The chilling deception of Luna, the excellent window into Luna's mental world, the organically executed fleshing of Luna's backstory culminated in a magnificent plot twist in the end. I agree that Luna is a mix of Homura, Sayaka and Hitomi. She shares Homura's obsession, Sayaka's tragedy, and Hitomi's elegance.

If the closing three episodes maintain this quality, then I'd say that Gen'ei was a show that started well, weakened in the middle and ended with a bang. Not Madoka Magica tier, but a worthy show that might continue the same trends Madoka Magica promoted greatly in the Magical Girl genre. If Madoka Magica was the Evangelion of Mahou Shojos, Gen'ei may well be the equivalent of those long forgotten "dark" Mecha shows that followed Evangelion. I think. unfortunately, it's going to be remembered as a post-script.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I agree that Luna is a mix of Homura, Sayaka and Hitomi. She shares Homura's obsession, Sayaka's tragedy, and Hitomi's elegance.

That's pretty much what I had in mind with that comment, yeah. If I had to capture it in just one word for each character in the mix, I couldn't capture it better than what you have here.

Originally Posted by Solace

On the other hand I got bored of this a few episodes back.

Well, I have had very mixed feelings about this show since around Episode 5 or so. Like yourself, I've been at a loss as to what the writers are hoping to accomplish with this show. But what I found particularly troubling in Episodes 5 through 8 was a certain lack of emotional resonance for me.

I think that the show was actually well-written from a technical standpoint, but it was lacking an emotional core. There was something that felt all-too-artificial about certain key elements of it. Perhaps the best way I can put it is that Gen'ei felt like it was wrote by a highly intelligent and meticulous, but completely non-emotional, AI. That AI studied up on magical girl anime extensively, and decided to use the Madoka Magica dark inversion approach with the PreCure "possessed human" bit. A good initial idea, but the further the show went along the more difficult I found it to emotionally connect with the characters.

Akari just became too comfortable in killing Daemonia for me. Light Yagami by night, Kaname Madoka by day, is how I described her. And personally, I just find that overall characterization really hard to swallow.

Ginka felt similarly strange to me in Episode 8. There was just something emotionally hollow about the show even though its plots were tight, its dialogue informative and well-developing of characters, and its pacing generally sound.

But with Episode 9, I feel like Gen'ei has finally hit all the right emotional notes, making the actions, dialogue, and thoughts of its characters much more emotionally engaging and resonating to me. Perhaps Data just received his emotion chip between Episodes 8 and 9.

But in fairness, it is just one episode, and time will tell if this improvement in Gen'ei will hold up or not. Still, for the first time in several weeks, I feel cautiously optimistic about where this show is going and how it'll all end up.

[Solace]

Oh I absolutely agree that this episode was well crafted and executed. It's just a shame that the preceding episodes seem to have lacked this level of care. Or perhaps there is a method to this show all along, and now the fruits of that are finally starting to show. It's really hard to tell. Some shows are like that, I guess.

I do find one thing interesting, which is Daemonia Luna herself. Evil kid is surprised by the result, which suggests it's never been tried before (at least to his knowledge), and I find it curious myself. The reason being that it seems to simply magnify her elemental tarot "costume" instead of turning her into a completely different monster. It overwhelms her humanity obviously, but it still sticks with her "theme", and it's an external transformation, which is different from the other victims who walked around as humans but appeared different/caged in the other dimension/world.

Although I'm not sure if this is more of a reflection of how the card was used, or if there's more to what an elemental tarot user is than meets the eye. Perhaps the users are already a type of Daemonia already. It reminds me of how different Akari was from her usual self when she first transformed.

[novalysis]

Which runs nicely parallel to the "You are what you fight against" theme, if you are right. I wonder whether we'd see this theme become a staple feature of more cynical Mahou Shojo animes from here on out.

[Kismet-chan]

Geez, poor Luna. I knew something horrible was going to happen to her, but... Not all that. The next episode is definitely going to hurt to watch. =/

[Triple_R]

Well, here is where Akari's ability to hear the voice of a Daemonia-possessed human could get very interesting. Quite possibly very sad and tragic, but definitely interesting.

Though a bit predictable, I'm really hoping we get a scene where Akari and Seira confront Daemonia!Luna, and Akari can hear Luna shouting out to her for help. Unlike some of the other Daemonia-possessed humans, Luna never did anything wrong. She never made any deal to get murderous revenge on someone or kill someone as a trade-off to save someone she wants to save. So I don't see Luna saying "please kill me" like that one guy did, since that guy was no doubt guilt-ridden and rightly so. I see Luna crying out to be rescued. And how Akari responds to that could be very telling. I think it'll set the tone and expectation for the remainder of the anime.

[Tempester]

I'm usually the one to dismiss lesbian undertones in anime as being just "close friendship" or what not. Yes, I can even look at Madoka and Homura's relationship in Madoka Magica to be nothing more than best friends.

Thus, I find the way this episode pushed Luna's romantic feelings for Akari to be quite bold, since yuri in anime is usually just used as a cheap marketing device rather than an important plot point. I'd like to see more honestly depicted relationships like Luna and Akari's in anime, rather than the typical "we're best friends 4eva!" stuff that doesn't develop anything.

I agree with most others here that episode 9 is the most powerful episode of Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou yet. The music in particular was gorgeous during those precious moments when Luna and "Akari" were together at the villa. Cerebrum had me completely fooled, although I really should have expected something when I noticed that Seira wasn't together with Meltina and Priscilla when they were in combat.

This episode was like a love letter to yuri fans, only the end of the letter just casually says "Oh, by the way, I killed your parents last night."