2008-08-27, 19:40 | Link #281 | ||
come tess me now!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: under the sea
|
Quote:
i cant get into the english dubs because they just dont sound right. not because i watched them in Japanese first but because the actors choice for voicing the character doesnt sound right. they either overact or underact making the the scene not believable at all Ichigo doesnt have that... innate thing that makes you believe what he says. when the Japanese seiyuu says he is going to protect his friends i believe it, when he is torn over his mothers death i believe it, when he is completely clueless about things i believe it. the dubber just sounds like he is saying his lines... with conviction yes, but it lacks the power and emotion needed to connect with me. there is this almost.... distance from the underlayers of what they are saying. i dont really expect them to pronounce things perfectly as they are not native speakers. however i do expect them to relay the feeling behind what they are saying. this is where the english dubs fail 9.5 out of 10. there is a range of emotions missing from all of their performances that leaves me lacking. plus the way the bungle the more comedic moments just kills. there is this scene when ichigo and yourichi are in the healing spa thing in the secret training grounds and he says something to the effect of "you built this huge place in secret?" or something (to lazy to look it up D but the inflection on the line was that of subtle comedy as opposed to the overly obvious heavy handed delivery of the dubber they always sound exactly the same and never really change up inflections or delivery from character to character. its the same tired thing every time... english has way more different accents and more than enough people in america to actual cast the different ethnicities if the choose to.... yet they dont. Quote:
there are also huge conventions that feature the seiyuu and can be three day events full of fans that come to see them. as many of their imported media are dubbed by them as well many seiyuu will rise above even the "anime only" status as their voices are linked with the hollywood movies they enjoy. some are even synonymous with the actual actor themselves as will be the go to voice for a large portion of their work. anime is a part of their culture and as the animation does encompass more adult topics even adults will know and have a seiyuu that they enjoy or respect. heck even celebrities will know the names and faces of their favorite seiyuu. the same really cant be said with the english VA. to keep throwing out the one person prefers to use Japanese celebrities is nothing more than that... its his preference. if he has a certain voice in mind and had created it while hearing it sounding a certain way then that what HE prefers... Miyazaki does not represent the seiyuu world at all. your argument is faulty in another area on the topic of respect in that there is a HUGE market for seiyuu in the drama CD world. this something that is not translated over in english because the quality of the english voice actors pales in comparison to the japanese seiyuu. can you imagine listening to the english voice actors versions of the drama cs or beat collections.... i'd rather not. the test of quality comes into play when you have nothing to distract you from the sound and delivery. |
||
2008-08-27, 19:49 | Link #282 | |||||
Powder Hunter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And now you support dubbing? But only when the ones dubbing are Japanese because they're just so perfect right? Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Royal_Devil; 2008-08-27 at 22:22. |
|||||
2008-08-27, 19:56 | Link #283 | ||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
|
Listen what about the rep. You just dismissed it.and now you are posting like you are mad. If I did do it because I did get somebody by accident. I am just assuming it was you. I would not do it on purpose. Please believe me...I hate to make another enemy.
Quote:
In the sub. Tousen is believable. Some people say there is no such thing as sounding black...but that's a lie. We do sound different whether we articulate or not. Just how many have you heard? I will wager you haven't heard more than I have. Unless you are black I think I am a better judge than you. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Number one: " quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please" NO! I will not. That is the only time you get quality acting. You don't have to agree but you sound like post Hitler. You can't tell me which points to use... Otherwise you get has-beens i.e Erick Estrada, Mark Hamil, Cree Summer... You don't get quality actors and to most of them it's just a job so they don't put their all in to it. Or they do and they just can't act and that's why they can only do VA. Japan does not have this attitude Quote:
I am a Bleachotaku how could you think I didn't know that? She said this in her very first interview. It was for a Bleach site months before the release. It's where I saw Ishida's VA and his disdain for voice acting... You will remember I said I liked the voice actress who does Rukia. I was not talking about Rukia's VA. There are some exceptions. Quote:
What makes you think I haven't realized, or known this? How many times do I have to tell you I judge them based on their acting ability. Not many you named sound different when playing the other roles. Actually a lot of seiyuu's voice multiple roles in one show. However that's not how I meant it. You went on a tangent for nothing. I meant period. I meant they sound the same way and act the same way no matter what role. Diva and Riku have the same seiyuu in the sub. She was a great actress. I recognized her instantly as Sango's brother in Inuyasha. I have an ear for voices, most the time I can call them right away. Others take a minute. That's for both Japanese and English. Please don't assume I didn't take that into account when making my decision. Don't assume I didn't recognize the actors...I did. I still think the acting is better in subs!!!! Quote:
I don't have a problem with Engrish. I don't see what that has to do with anything. I don't see what addressing you have to do with Black Lagoon... Renji's pronunciation of Hihou Zabimaru is terrible. He doesn't say it right. A lot of them do not. They could take the time and try to say it correctly. Quote:
When Inuyasha decides he's going to give his life to Kikyo. From the moment when Kagome says "There is no place for me between me and them" and it switches to Inu and he says "We can't see each other any more" The pain in his voice, the way he delivers his line as he says this. I could feel how much it hurt him. I cry every time I see that scene. I don't feel that emotion from the dubbed episode. I hardly ever feel any emotion except disgust when I watch dubs. |
||||||||||
2008-08-27, 20:20 | Link #284 | |||||||||||
Powder Hunter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Japan's lazy when it comes to foreign accents. They know they can't get it right with just Japanese people so they just go with someone who acts well. I accepted that truth a long time ago. Quote:
Quote:
To put it simply, they may not translate the jokes accurately but it's still funnier unless you think everything has to be exactly like the Japanese version and that the Japanese version is always perfect. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Dub actors have a lot more going against them, which is why I honestly respect a good performance from them than one from Disney. Quote:
I've always believed everything has its good and its bad and that no one way is better than the other. I take it you don't share the sentiment? Quote:
Quote:
You've also said the mispronouncing Japanese words have ruined dubs for you. I was simply countering with an example of the opposite happening to me. Same goes for overacting. that's the biggest problem seiyuus have yet you only call dub actors on it. Quote:
I'll ask again: Are there any Japanese performances you actually don't like? Any in Bleach? Any in other anime? Otherwise, I'm seeing nothing but blind bias from you. Sorry
__________________
Last edited by Royal_Devil; 2008-08-27 at 21:58. |
|||||||||||
2008-08-27, 22:42 | Link #287 | |||||
come tess me now!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: under the sea
|
did i ever say that or did you editorialize my comment to fit your needs.
Quote:
and even if they are not what is the need to put a qualifier on their respect by placing a "by otakus" on it. does it make them any less respected. fans are fans. you can spin it any way you want, but these are people that highly respect the level and quality of work these people do. is the only way you will accept that they are respected is that if a non-otaku acknowledges them.... i remember watching a tv show with Hyde on it and he mentions being moved by seeing the seiyuu that voiced Doraemon on the same plane as him. that he was excited cause he really likes her. Quote:
whats it callled? Quote:
i said that seiyuu, as opposed to their english VA counterparts, hold a different position and level of respect due to the fact that their voices carry over to so many different forms of media. its not just cartoons that they become known for... which goes against your "otaku only" standpoint. for those that may not know or relate them to an anime character they would also be known for their non anime dubbing roles... i dont think i can make it clearer than that. no need to add anything to it. Quote:
can you tell me where you get the idea that other than otaku and children, nobody really cares about anime? i'd love to read up on it Quote:
if you put out a low quality product i'm not gonna like it. if you put some effort into it and really try and make it believable then it will be enjoyable. so far i have yet to come across a dub i have liked more than the original. so far they have all been campy, childish, poorly acted, or poorly cast. the only dub i've ever halfway thought was decent was the samurai champloo ones and even then it only really thought that jin character was done well. fuu was done in a way that made her annoying (which she was in the original but she was annoying because of her age and tendency to whine) because she sounded childish to me. and mugen.... not rough and wild enough by half. english VA might get more respect in the english anime world if they didnt do such a poor job overall of translating the feel of the characters over to english, imo. |
|||||
2008-08-27, 23:45 | Link #288 | ||||||
Powder Hunter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
|
Poptart, most of what I'm saying is actually a repeat from someone else. In fact, now that I look back I've got a few parts wrong so I apologize for those.
And I can't help but wonder if you also have any criticisms for these seiyuu since you claim to not view them as perfect. Why not besides "nothings perfect?" It just doesn't sit well with me when someone never mentions any bad points but doesn't claim perfection. However.... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A number of kj1980's posts here indicate otherwise. While some of what you say is true there's also some glaring faults. Throughout the thread he repeatidly brings up how those otakus shelling out for all their favorite shows are a vital contributer and much of the industry could not function without them. Yes, anime is very diverse and there will always be exceptions. But they are few. As kj1980 says: Spoiler for quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||||||
2008-08-28, 00:11 | Link #289 |
Amagai Shusuke's Brother
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
lmao...what were we talking about again?
oh yeah lol...I think the english voice of Ichigo is pretty good myself...I watched a behind the scenes thing with him and he truly shows passion for the role...I feel this way...a persons acting is only as good as his/her passion for the part
__________________
|
2008-08-28, 01:08 | Link #290 | |||||||
come tess me now!!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: under the sea
|
Quote:
most of the problems i have related to seiyuu deals with the them casting the wrong voice in my opinion. but over time i usually get over it as it. like i really wished that Minagawa Junko could have voiced Allen Walker, but as time went on i grew to like Kobayashi Sanae or even growing to love Kugimiya Rie as Miharu. see the difference. they both put out a good performance in my opinion so i was able to still enjoy it overall. Quote:
Quote:
again the qualifier. i still dont get why there are all these qualifiers to the aspect of respect. i cant remember exactly who it was but an actor... maybe it was an idol... gaaahhh she had long hair and was quite funny... made a reference to hirano aya as liking her style and then mimicked her from Haruhi... its gonna drive me crazy until i remember D: Quote:
Quote:
there are a number of ways to give the same levels of inflections rukia did when switching between her rough talking to ichigo and renji speak, extremely respectful speech when speaking to her brother and superiors, her hilarious attempts at speaking "modern day girly", etc. renji sounded like jerk the first time he showed up... which actually fit with his character... however he never really changed up after you got to see he is a bit of a softy, espc for rukia. yes, ishida sounds bored most of the time, but his VA never really had that controlling anal retentive goofball feel that ishida. so there was never really a big change up between his normal moments and his "badass" moments enough to make a difference.... he just always sounds like some aloof loner. chad sounds mentally slow most times.... instead of the dude that is to lazy to actually vocalize his thoughts. ichigo is just.... no gin sounds like some proper snake like bastard... which would sort of fit his character but gin is supposed to be rough around the edges and nonchalant with a bit of skeaz to freak you out. thats part of the reason most would either not take him seriously or be put off by him. byakuya makes my ears cry.... all of this stems from them not really understanding how their characters are and the culture surround their creation enough to be able to translate it to an english equivalent. it doesnt have to be a direct translation where they are just mocking the seiyuu, but them taking in the information and really understanding the subtleties of the characters and how they relate to each other. then processing that and finding the english version of these things. how do we speak when talking to somebody we deeply respect and yet are afraid of? how do we speak when we feel as if we are too far away from somebody in status? pulling in real life material of the girl in class that was in love with the boy that didnt even know she exsisted? how does she act? what were the inflections in her voice that clued you in? bringing things like that to characters is whats missing in their performance to me. its all one note or extremes. Quote:
Quote:
and to further that point i didnt say they didnt get any respect.... i said they'd get more respect. meaning if you put up a quality product then middle ground people wouldnt have anything to complain about and all thats left are just "haters" and "purists". Last edited by poptart; 2008-08-28 at 08:12. |
|||||||
2008-08-28, 02:31 | Link #292 | ||||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
|
Quote:
Quote:
This is one I am just going to let go. since I am going to believe I am a better judge than you... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I want to know why you are under the impression that VA is so widely respected and it's not. Quote:
If you know that, then why do you keep contradicting yourself and saying otherwise? Quote:
Mark Hamil was "Luke Skywalker" now he's a nobody that voices cartoons That's the lowest you get in acting unless it's a BIG PRODUCTION LIKE DISNEY OR PIXAR! They are voice actors because they can't be anything else. Quote:
I like only the best Quote:
Quote:
That still doesn't negate the fact that the mispronunciations annoy me. It's not the same thing. With the Japanese L sounds like R and the reverse. They can't help but say Engrish. With some practice they can. same thing goes for them... Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I said probably not. Unless it's like what happened with Inuyasha. I saw it in English FIRST and then saw it Japanese and preferred it. If I saw a show that was originally in English and if it was funnier and the acting was better than I might. it hasn't happened so I really can't say. What part of that couldn't you understand the first time? Quote:
You don't have to see anything. I said I am SUPER SUB BIASED. It's not like that's a secret. I am also seeing blind bias from you and blatant denial... You don't even realize those comic-cons are viewed as nerd stuff (That's why you never heard of em pop. ) I get made fun of by "The cool" people every time I go to one Yeah there are few I do not like. Not many because like I said before. The Japanese get better actors for their animation and they don't have to pick from the best of the "Has-beens" like you do with dubs. You like dubs and that's fine. But do not try and make it this glamorous profession outside of Japan. It is not. If Jennifer Aniston starting doing voice only. No one would see it as a step up. No she would be pitied and looked down upon. Most English are failures or hasbeens. you might not like it but it's a fact. Most of them can't act at all... You are right there is no point in this conversation if you are gonna blanket everyone's criticisms and put your own spin on it. Last edited by BleachOD; 2008-08-28 at 02:59. |
||||||||||||||
2008-08-28, 09:02 | Link #293 |
カカシ
|
English kids don't watch anime, they watch cartoons. English adolescents and adults don't watch anime because they think they are cartoons. Until that misconseption changes we won't be seeing quality English dubs, though on rare ocassion it can be done. Death Note for example.
Also Japanese voice actors are stars in Japan. Whereas English voice actors are percieved differently, unless they're starring in Disney or Pixar films. There are English voice actors just as capable or more capable than their Japanese counterparts, they just haven't found their way to anime. |
2008-08-28, 09:10 | Link #294 |
Schwing!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 40
|
agree to disagree
this is my personal opinion I believe some of the better dubbing was in the old days before anime became such a huge hit in the states. I prefer'd the Gundam Wing dub over the sub, hell, I liked Dragonball Z a lot more when Pioneer had it, even though it was just the movies and I started out on the series by watching it unsubbed/dubbed on the International Channel. |
2008-08-28, 09:18 | Link #295 | |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kneeling in front of my ICHIGO SHRINE.
|
Quote:
Devil...this is what Pop, and I are trying to tell you... That's the attitude I get from my family. All except my boyfriend don't understand why I purchased site 2 months ago instead of just running it. |
|
2008-08-28, 09:48 | Link #296 |
Schwing!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 40
|
I think that's the general attitude of most people from the last(?) couple generations? sorry, not sure how generations are defined by years but I'm thinking along the lines of my parents who were born in the 50's.
|
2008-08-28, 12:08 | Link #298 | ||||||||||||||||||||
Powder Hunter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
OD Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And of course there are actors that voice cartoon characters while still having successful careers. And here's another thing we seem to disagree on. You seem to believe that just because they aren't Hollywood level, the world views them has-beens with no talent left. You also seem to view not doing Hollywood movies anymore as a bad thing. Being in Hollywood movies is as much about connections as it is about talent, maybe even more so. Going by what you've said, people would view actors like Keanu Reeves as better than Hamill since Reeves is still doing big movies. All I hear from most though is "how is he still in these movies?" It's because he's got connections not because he's got talent. Everybody loves Hamill's version of the Joker, many consider it better than his Star Wars role. There's plenty of trash actors in Hollywood that nobody likes but somehow manage to keep coming back into film. It's not because they're good, it's because they have people that can keep them in. So I don't view being a voice actor as necessarily a bad thing. They don't have the prestige Hollywood offers but then again gaining that prestige doesn't necessarily make you a better actor. More often than not it makes you a better businessman who knows how to make the right friends. You're right, Hamill hasn't been in any big movie recently. But I've seen him in a number of independent movies (which would also be the place of has-beens by your definition). Of course, there's plenty to like about the indie industry over Hollywood so I don't see what's wrong with that. Maybe you didn't mean that being a voice actor and not in Hollywood means you have no talent in live action anymore and if so then what I just said doesn't apply. Quote:
Quote:
Now the Ghost Stories dub is a remake but it's a remake that's more fun to watch than the tired, boring, and unremarkable work it was in Japan. Because there's really only so much you can do when the anime already sucks Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just so you know, as far as dubs go I only rank the Bleach dub in the 5% I call, watchable. Quote:
Quote:
Kakashi: Quote:
Quote:
To put it simply, all everyone has shown is that there are more geeks in Japan. But that's still a minority in Japan. Just like it's a minority here. Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Royal_Devil; 2008-08-28 at 12:52. |
||||||||||||||||||||
2008-08-28, 12:09 | Link #299 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.
Age: 39
|
Quote:
And even if your statement is true, I doubt most accents would be useful in the industry anyway. Quote:
Not to mention they have the adoration of the Drama CD / manga fans. Most seiyuu's I loved, I learned of through Drama CD's. Their voice acting can survive even without moving pictures to distract me. I can't really say the same for English VA's. However, this isn't coming from pure bias. There are certain seiyuu's I will never like. I need to draw up a list.
__________________
|
||
2008-08-28, 12:12 | Link #300 | |
Schwing!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Texas
Age: 40
|
Quote:
Example... Vegeta's "It's OVER 9000!!!!" I liked the old version better than the new FUNi version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik - original http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Imuo...eature=related - FUNi remake though I can respect FUNi for including the original footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTgEATHHe6w&NR=1 - Princess Snake Suicide Game clip though I'm still disappointed how poorly they handled DBZ (not even to mention GT) for the most part, but then imo do great w/ other projects, like Fullmetal Alchemist Last edited by Mr. DJ; 2008-08-28 at 12:25. |
|
|
|