Code Geass R2 - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by ashlay

they may have just been playing a slight of hand on us. But until Rollo explains his power in a way to invalidate the escaping an explosion at the last second, I see no reason to assume that he didn't do just that.

He stops time in a small area. Well Not really stopping time , but the surrounding will look as if they have stopped while he moves. Or one could say he slows time. The current time occurs but it will seem as if time has stopped. K i am going to stop confusing myself now .


Buts it obvious. Rolo wont kill Lulu. I mean come on. He could have killed him before he come out of his geass. Like the same way he did to that other guy .

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

He doesn't necessarily have to stop the mechs...he can stop the people piloting the mechs, thus temporarily disabling the mechs themselves.

As for the explosion, it seems to be an inconsistency that the animators inadvertently created...or maybe that Rollo can control the amount of power used in his Geass?

We can also assume that the explosion of the Gekka? wasn't strong enough to damage the Vincent. The explosion provided a sort of smokescreen that made it look like he teleported when it cleared up.

Well this can all just be an animation inconsistency anyway

It wasn't strong enough to the point where it didn't even lay a scratch on him? You're kidding me right?

We'll leave it until later in order to get the full explanation then >_>

[Zarifus]

Spoiler for Rollo's Geass:

I wouldn't call Rollo's geass a "time stop" as it doesn't really stop time. It merely 'appears' to stop time. In this ep when Rollo used his geass on Viletta and the random agent, the water around them was still flowing. The people invloved had the red ring around their eyes.

The only problem is how the knightmares in ep 2 didn't seem to move any further during Rollo's mind trick. Even if the pilot is frozen, the KM should still continue to move in that direction, however, I checked the ep and they were all making pretty small movements at the time so I guess its ok...

I'm sure lulu can counter this later on by using the limit to the distance, anyone within the 'red sphere' of rollo's geass will be frozen, but I think everyone outside should see things in real-time, including rollo's movements and should be able to snipe him from afar.

Spoiler for Speculation on Lulus Geass:

Either the gun has an empty clip like others have said, since lulu was probably planning to Geass Rollo in the first place, or I think we may see an evolution to lulu's geass as hinted by C.C. when she gave him the contact.

Since one of the major limitations right now seem to be he has to say the command out loud, and takes time, and is easy to spot through surveilence. Maybe the next evolution would be unspoken commands? It allows for alot more stealth and gives him more freedom on who and when he can geass but retains most of the important limitions that prevents his ability to become too godlike.

[KrimzonStriker]

Look, I'll bring up escaping the explosion one more time for you to point out an inconsistency. Another thing is, from the looks of it Lelouch was outside the sphere but it appeared to him that Rollo had disappeared as well in Turn 2, since if he was in the sphere Rollo should have been more then close enough to finish him instead of needing a second time stop to come in from behind >_>

Maybe he creates some sort of bubble where to him he's moving normally but to everyone else he's moving really fast instead?

Edit: And technically according to the staff, Lelouch doesn't need to say his commands out loud, he managed to text message commands before during his experiments in Stage 3, in order to find the maximum distance he could use it from.

[Var]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Your forgetting that they don't know Rolo had Geass in the first place so they couldn't have taken that into consideration.

No I didn't. Did you perhaps miss:

Originally Posted by Var

So I didn't mean that she knew it was Rollo, but that it could have been someone and, as such, that is a loose end.

There are enough conditions met for someone to question whether or not Geass is involved. At which point, sending in C2 is a better option than Kallen.

Since you missed what I meant, here is a rewording:

Originally Posted by Var

Had Kallen been C.C., Rolo's little time stop would have done jack to seperate them, as it did for Kallen. And they'd actually have been able to recover Lelouch immediately, not risking his life as he fell down the shaft or when he was going to get shot. It doesn't matter who has the Geass if a Geass is present (or just the idea that one might be), C2 is a better option, overall, than Kallen to retrieve Lelouch given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Now let's go over your scenario:

C.C goes in and the Intelligence people do catch on (and they are more likely too since they are actually trying to do just that, versus pedestrians/airport security and unknown Chinese diplomats like in 16) they would have scrambled much faster and Rollo would have moved to immediately disable her as we can see that he isn't just a Geass only type of agent but one who can handle himself quite nicely if the knife in his pocket is any indication. Not like C.C could pop out a gun to take him out with that outfit either. He disables her, calls in back up before the Black Knights is ready to attack and Britannia makes its escape with the Green-Witch.

And who exactly was around that we were aware of in that scene when she revealed herself anyway? A supposedly cleared room full of dead bodies and a panicked Lelouch, that's what. Revealing herself was the correct choice of actions in order to get Lelouch's compliance and to prevent him from running again.

Since when has C2 needed a weapon to disable someone? She has no attachment to Rolo and, as such, no reserves to raping his mind the moment he comes in contact with her. So Rolo disabling her with little trouble, or at all for that matter, is quite the stretch. Also, the OOBK was ready to go at anytime during the entire ordeal, they were simply waiting for the optimal situation of Kallen bringing Lelouch before getting involved. Also, your end scenario is no different from what happened when C2 got shot with no one around but Lelouch.

The same people who were around during the entire episode, the special ops. Unless you want to tell me that they just stopped looking for her when the OOBK came into play. If anything they started looking for her more then. And since when do special ops reveal themselves? Seems to counter the idea...

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Kallen is more suited and more capable of pulling off the field reconnaissance then a wanted C.C who in this case has taken more of the role of commander instead, which means they are indeed playing to their strengths in my view.

C.C. took the role of commander? You mean by falling through a roof to combat enemy Sutherlands? That's really playing off her strengths. A commander does what Lelouch does, stays in the back and lets the rest fight while he will only get involved when the oppurtune moment presents itself... not falling through roofs in the middle of a battlezone.

While its nice to have a view, its even nicer when that view makes sense.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

True, that she didn't know that it was Charles, but I fail to see why she would suspect Rollo of possessing Geass when he could more likely just be a plain old intelligence agent, making him not that mysterious at all. Its also dubious that the one who did Geass Lelouch would also put himself out in the open like that with only a Geass that could wipe out memory which wouldn't be all that useful in a real-time combat situation, and since it was more likely that Rolo was simply a regular agent Kallen would have been the most able to take him out had it been necessary.

I never said suspect Rolo, I said suspect that someone has Geass. And that, there is enough reason to question who/what Rolo is given his existance and constant presence around Lelouch. Does he have to necessarily be the geasser? No. Could he, however, possibly be related to it or be responsible for it? Yes. That is called a loose end, and for an opperation as important as it was, that's a very big loose end. And while it is true that Kallen could handle a regular agent, there is no reason to assume that Rolo is just a regular agent. His position would imply someone with enough training to be able to handle Kallen, geass or not. They won't just put a pansy to watch over someone as valuable as Lelouch.

Mind altering Geass is not useful in combat? Are you shitting me? "You there, you're memory now says that you're my ally and he's your enemy." That's one of the best combat capable geass presented.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

The highest priority is to get Lelouch out alive which would have been more likely to occur under Kallen's supervision over the risk of putting C.C out there and calling it game over. His memories can be fixed anytime so long as C.C and him are both secured, which is less likely to occur if C.C had been the one to go after him in the bunny costume instead. Kallen on the ground is also safer, faster, and more effective then C.C on the ground while C.C is also better protected in the Knightmare alongside the rest of the Order.

Since when has Code Geass suddenly become a work of Shakespear anyway? Besides your own uncertainties we're not likely to revisit the scenario again

No, it is more likely to occur because you think it will. However, I do not believe such a thing and have given reason for why it would not. This is a high stakes game, you're assuming far too much and allowing far too many loose ends to go unchecked.

And as I said, C.C. went to him of her own volition, in the middle of the battle, alone, and ended up getting shot anyway. So you're argument that she's safer with the group falls through the floor because she didn't stay with the damn group.

While Kallen may be better than C.C. on the ground, she is even better than her in a mech that is ten times more powerful than what C2 was using. C2 on the other hand, is immortal and would, ultimately, trump Kallen on the ground. For instance, if Kallen is the MkII, she'd proceed to wipe the floor with the incoming Special Ops units, not delay them slightly, and allow for the Order to move more freely through the tower. What ended up happening was, however, the opposite.

Shakespeare was clearly an analogy. I never said this was shakespeare but I was giving you reason for not dismissing events.

I've made my point, as such, I'm finished with the discussion.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

This episode was kick-ass, though Rollo's Geass is freaking ridiculous (I'm not even sure if I mean that in a good way). I wonder if he has any limitations? I find it weird how Lelouch's Geass is suddenly becoming, well, obsolete compared to the other two Geass' that haven revealed recently.

10/10


EDIT: Oh, I also still hate Kururugi Suzaku more than ever. Apart from Sasuke from Naruto, I have never hated a fictional character more in my entire life.

[Kisuke06]

I don't quite understand Rollo's Geass either. But it should be explained later.

Anyways, another good episode. Kallen's scene with a towel was great.

[Zarifus]

Oh, I don't remember the texting thing, but I guess you can ignore the Lulu part then. >_>

lol, I just thought the suit was powerful enough to survive the explosion...
Anyways, Rollo's geass still confuses the heck out of me. I went back to the waterfall scene and most defintely all the water around them was moving...

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Zarifus

Oh, I don't remember the texting thing, but I guess you can ignore the Lulu part then. >_>

lol, I just thought the suit was powerful enough to survive the explosion...
Anyways, Rollo's geass still confuses the heck out of me. I went back to the waterfall scene and most defintely all the water around them was moving...

meh, the water is being affected by the waterfall though, which is outside of Rollo's geass bubble. the Gekka exploding wouldn't be.

I don't know, maybe gravity stays on in his bubble? maybe anything affected by anything outside the bubble will start moving again? Maybe the world shall never know?

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Zarifus

Oh, I don't remember the texting thing, but I guess you can ignore the Lulu part then. >_>

lol, I just thought the suit was powerful enough to survive the explosion...
Anyways, Rollo's geass still confuses the heck out of me. I went back to the waterfall scene and most defintely all the water around them was moving...

I'm guessing that the Geass only freezes the PERSON, or rather freezes their thoughts and maybe movement as long as the Geass is active. I thought about it, and I think his weakness might be a limited range, but im not sure.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

I'm guessing that the Geass only freezes the PERSON, or rather freezes their thoughts and maybe movement as long as the Geass is active. I thought about it, and I think his weakness might be a limited range, but im not sure.

that doesn't explain the Gekka and Guren keeping their momentum when they attacked Vincent though, or how Vincent escapes the Gekka exploding. It was quite clear that the Vincent actually did get stabbed in the shoulder, so it's not like that was an illusion of some sort.

[flou]

Originally Posted by ashlay

that doesn't explain the Gekka and Guren keeping their momentum when they attacked Vincent though, or how Vincent escapes the Gekka exploding. It was quite clear that the Vincent actually did get stabbed in the shoulder, so it's not like that was an illusion of some sort.

Well, for example, if you step on the gas in your car, the car is going to keep moving whether you stop moving or not.

[lightbringer]

So, it turns out that "context of broken hearts" and "the army already completely surrounded there" were Rolo's unspectacular lines. Apart from "you've come, Rolo" and "Rolo is different from nii-san, when it comes to being naive", are there any other lines we still haven't seen? Or did I miss those somewhere along the way?

[_DaViD_]

im watching subbed version and about rollo's geass; he makes like a red wave? bubble? and everything inside it stops, in the background the water is stil flowing but i thinks thats because the range wasnt that long.

and wtf they have 180 cameras on the school and 48 spy including Rollo lmao.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by _DaViD_

im watching subbed version and about rollo's geass; he makes like a red wave? bubble? and everything inside it stops, in the background the water is stil flowing but i thinks thats because the range wasnt that long.

and wtf they have 180 cameras on the school and 48 spy including Rollo lmao.

sorry, that's 47 including Rollo now.

Originally Posted by lightbringer

So, it turns out that "context of broken hearts" and "the army already completely surrounded there" were Rolo's unspectacular lines. Apart from "you've come, Rolo" and "Rolo is different from nii-san, when it comes to being naive", are there any other lines we still haven't seen? Or did I miss those somewhere along the way?

Lelouch is probably going to expect Rollo will try to mess with his plan next week.

as for the other line, I seem to recall Milly saying it when Shirley covered her mouth. >_>

[Fewes]

Vilettas hair moved while she was under the impression of Rollo's Geas.
I think his Geas only stops peoples minds, but then again, that leaves the explosion unexplained...

[Var]

Originally Posted by ashlay

that doesn't explain the Gekka and Guren keeping their momentum when they attacked Vincent though, or how Vincent escapes the Gekka exploding. It was quite clear that the Vincent actually did get stabbed in the shoulder, so it's not like that was an illusion of some sort.

He disappears when they attack and reappears when they've just about stopped. Their reaction isn't until then, so there's nothing really wrong with the momentum example for mind stop, as opposed to time stop.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

So it turns out it's not time manipulation or teleportation.

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Var

No I didn't. Did you perhaps miss:



There are enough conditions met for someone to question whether or not Geass is involved. At which point, sending in C2 is a better option than Kallen.

Since you missed what I meant, here is a rewording:

No I didn't forget, but you keep assuming that they must assume that Rolo had Geass or something when it's nothing of the sort as far as I can tell, and would put C.C in far too much risk in either case.

Since when has C2 needed a weapon to disable someone? She has no attachment to Rolo and, as such, no reserves to raping his mind the moment he comes in contact with her. So Rolo disabling her with little trouble, or at all for that matter, is quite the stretch. Also, the OOBK was ready to go at anytime during the entire ordeal, they were simply waiting for the optimal situation of Kallen bringing Lelouch before getting involved. Also, your end scenario is no different from what happened when C2 got shot with no one around but Lelouch.

The same people who were around during the entire episode, the special ops. Unless you want to tell me that they just stopped looking for her when the OOBK came into play. If anything they started looking for her more then. And since when do special ops reveal themselves? Seems to counter the idea...

You're kidding me right? The last time she did that she ended up having to stand completely still and vulnerable to outside interference if she did. Her disabling him is quite the stretch from where I'm standing actually.

The Order was descending in a blimp while Lelouch was being restrained by people other then Kallen, how was that the optimal situation? They certainly can't hover over the tower all day without raising suspicion. That end scenario has one factor though, Rollo, who most certainly would have prevented Lelouch from grabbing C.C since more likely he would have captured her alive and derailed whatever she said to Lelouch as lies and stuff instead of blatantly admitting everything to Lelouch like that...

C.C. took the role of commander? You mean by falling through a roof to combat enemy Sutherlands? That's really playing off her strengths. A commander does what Lelouch does, stays in the back and lets the rest fight while he will only get involved when the oppurtune moment presents itself... not falling through roofs in the middle of a battlezone.

While its nice to have a view, its even nicer when that view makes sense.

Uhh, last I checked Lelouch took the head in everyone of his battles and was not safely inside his blimp or some other area out of harms way. And it was an opportune moment, just one that was interrupted too soon, I mean it's not like the Sutherlands were there before she tried to get to him >_>

Your insulting my reasoning now? You're the one whose making about as much sense as a cracked nut at this point

I never said suspect Rolo, I said suspect that someone has Geass. And that, there is enough reason to question who/what Rolo is given his existance and constant presence around Lelouch. Does he have to necessarily be the geasser? No. Could he, however, possibly be related to it or be responsible for it? Yes. That is called a loose end, and for an opperation as important as it was, that's a very big loose end. And while it is true that Kallen could handle a regular agent, there is no reason to assume that Rolo is just a regular agent. His position would imply someone with enough training to be able to handle Kallen, geass or not. They won't just put a pansy to watch over someone as valuable as Lelouch.

Mind altering Geass is not useful in combat? Are you shitting me? "You there, you're memory now says that you're my ally and he's your enemy." That's one of the best combat capable geass presented.

And I'll question the use of memory alteration in the middle of a fight or on someone he doesn't suspect or wouldn't have reason to suspect compared to a disguised C.C which any good field agent should be able to see through. And you're suggesting they send in C.C to do a physical task Kallen apparently can't handle? Where's the logic in that!?

You have got to be shitting me as well! Where do you get the time to pull off that kind of crap in the middle of combat! There's no guarantee they'd be able get a direct eye contact in that kind of scenario! It's more likely for the person with that type of Geass to stay back and work from behind of the scenes like Charles is doing!

No, it is more likely to occur because you think it will. However, I do not believe such a thing and have given reason for why it would not. This is a high stakes game, you're assuming far too much and allowing far too many loose ends to go unchecked.

And as I said, C.C. went to him of her own volition, in the middle of the battle, alone, and ended up getting shot anyway. So you're argument that she's safer with the group falls through the floor because she didn't stay with the damn group.

While Kallen may be better than C.C. on the ground, she is even better than her in a mech that is ten times more powerful than what C2 was using. C2 on the other hand, is immortal and would, ultimately, trump Kallen on the ground. For instance, if Kallen is the MkII, she'd proceed to wipe the floor with the incoming Special Ops units, not delay them slightly, and allow for the Order to move more freely through the tower. What ended up happening was, however, the opposite.

Shakespeare was clearly an analogy. I never said this was shakespeare but I was giving you reason for not dismissing events.

I've made my point, as such, I'm finished with the discussion.

Whose allowing loose ends here? You're coming at me with this bull of putting C.C out there with no support with an entire division of Britannian agents just waiting for her. This is a high stakes game, and far be it that they do something stupid to lose it all on something unnecessary as far as they could tell.

There was no one that was there as far as she could apparently tell! Hindsight is a lot better then foresight wouldn't you agree, and real-time combat, no matter how well you prepare, doesn't always work the way you want it too, just look at Lelouch and some of his plans being flushed down the toilet ! All you can ever do in situations like this is prepare the best you can. I'm sure it would have been so much safer exposed as a Bunny girl with no means of defending herself properly and with no back up whatsoever which is what you're suggest!

C.C, being immortal, does not by any stretch make her more capable in fending off opponents as Kallen could on the ground, and ultimately what they wanted most of all was to capture her. And the spec-ops only acted when the Order attacked, thus giving them the reason needed to enter after them to secure C.C. If C.C had been discovered right away, they would have gone in first instead of hanging back like they did. It would have been more preferable to have Kallen slip by with Lelouch rather then trying to fight there way too him. What ended up happening anyway was that they succeeded, and I think that counts a lot more in the end.

Trying to fit an analogy on the basis that the context of Shakespeare's play on comedy into his plot fits within the context of Code Geass when it doesn't does not make for a good example. >_>

Yeah, yeah, go off with you're unnecessary baggage then, this discussion was just ridiculous to begin with anyway.

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Var

He disappears when they attack and reappears when they've just about stopped. Their reaction isn't until then, so there's nothing really wrong with the momentum example for mind stop, as opposed to time stop.

I'm talking about their momentum Var. If they had been given some sort of "stop moving" order, they would have been moving slower after the time skip. If they were simply given a "stop" order, they would have crashed into the wall. >_>