2012-10-15, 11:50 | Link #30861 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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though I've to say the more I read about the bomb, the less I find it believable. So now Kinzo even had guys who went to check if all his insane amount of explosive worked well? And Beato carelessly says she managed to blow up the shrine without problems even if she supposedly isn't a bomb expert... -_- I wish the right solution was this is an embellishment, Battler and Eva escaped in the tunnel for reason X (maybe to escape from the real killer for example) and that the explosion was caused by some other thing that's not one ton of WW2 explosive carelessly forgotten behind by the Japanese and connected to a random clock. |
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2012-10-15, 12:44 | Link #30863 |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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Acually, the truth is that Beatrice is a hermaphrodite alien spieces that excretes the hallucinatory subsastance of Purupurupikopuyo while "doing it".
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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2012-10-15, 13:38 | Link #30864 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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On the island she had spent so many years... was buried an enormous amount of explosives. They could have, at Kinzo's slightest whim...... or by some kind of coincidental accident, massively exploded. In fact, the entire discussion and subsequent explanation of how much effort was necessary to keep the explosives in working order only supports the notion that they would in Prime have probably fallen into disrepair and could easily have just gone off on their own. Incidentally, I think such an interpretation would lend more credibility to post-incident writing of the message bottles (i.e. "this incident happened accidentally, so I will write stories where it was done deliberately and make up an excuse as to how"). But that's pretty much up in the air as far as argument goes, I guess.
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2012-10-15, 20:03 | Link #30865 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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2012-10-16, 03:17 | Link #30867 |
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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It has come to our attention that several people here are linking to scanlation sites that offer licensed content. This is a clear violation of our rules and something that can easily get your account banned. It does not matter wich part of the site you are linking to, simply doing so is enough to earn you a Warning and/or infraction.
Discussions that provide info or try to give hints about such sites are also not allowed. If any of you has posted such links or info in the past, I must ask that you remove those ASAP, else you'll risk a ban from the site and a permanent mark on your profiles.
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2012-10-16, 07:19 | Link #30868 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Questions if I may:
How are conversations during magical scenes interpreted? It's just me but I just find some sense behind Belphegor mentioning Rudolf having anticipated the 2 Sisters with him mentioning that "Ever since the time Rosa was killed he had a general Idea." 2nd: Why are the stakings so awkward in EP3? 5 not 7. And weren't Natsuhi and Krauss staked weird as well with the thigh and foot despite the other 3 fitting? I can remember someone saying no staking is needed for the 2nd and 3rd though why the sudden change compared to EP 1 and 2? EP 1: Eva and Hideyoshi perhaps weren't actually staked and it was staged? EP 2: Kanon not getting staked may be self-explainantory.Still beatrices line regarding Jessica sorta bothers me. When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room "[Whoops, the corpse of] Jessica is also included" Why the sudden change in red in terms of her corpse? Sounds like her corpse was discovered yet there is no corpse in her room. Terribly sorry for bothering! |
2012-10-16, 08:23 | Link #30869 |
Reading your tale. :)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Just out of sight, eating popcorn. >:D
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@Kiltias
It's probably more of a timing issue. When Jessica's body is discovered, she isn't dead, but is badly wounded. Since there's no one competent to help her, she bleeds to death. Then Beatrice says her red.
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2012-10-16, 08:50 | Link #30870 | |||||
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Is there really any need for her to say the "corpse of" part in red? I don't think there's any significance about it; the red/blue statements are often started mid-sentence for no obvious reason, for example:
- The six linked rooms, the murders of Rosa oba-san and Maria, Dad and the rest's deaths in the hall, the murders of Krauss oji-san and Natsuhi oba-san...all of that can be explained if we suppose that Eva oba-san was the culprit. - Know that my window is sealed from the inside and Natsuhi did not let Kinzo escape...!! Quote:
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2012-10-16, 10:23 | Link #30871 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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[QUOTE=Drifloon;4398919]Is there really any need for her to say the "corpse of" part in red? I don't think there's any significance about it; the red/blue statements are often started mid-sentence for no obvious reason, for example:
/QUOTE] Just seemed odd to me. Quote:
As in: Can we take from these sentences that Rudolf indeed suspected Eva and anticipated an ambush despite it being magical. You see, I was thinking that EP 3 has just quite a relation to EP7 in terms of events work pretty much perfect like a mirror. Quote:
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Only stakings that weren't done according the Epitaph. Quote:
Nice idea. |
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2012-10-16, 10:51 | Link #30872 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Hmm, agreed that it's odd. Also agreed that it's probably insignificant. If anything, maybe Beato wanted to leave a small space for a Jessica culprit answer at the moment. Probably just insignificant though.
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I don't see much of a correlation with EP7, though ... EP7 was just Kyrie on a random ass rampage. She didn't bother trying to lie to anybody (except George and Jessica, a little) or create any alibis or mysteries. It was just "this person isn't me or Rudolf. SHOOT SHOOT STAB STAB" for a motive that makes no sense. Well ... I disagree about this. Well, Natsuhi's was alright (in the calf) ... dunno what was up with Krauss's. Noone else got in in the thigh. [/QUOTE] |
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2012-10-16, 11:26 | Link #30873 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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But yeah, I don't really think Yasu was present during Rosa and Maria's deaths. The fantasy scene could be taken to suggest that, but Eva doing it by herself makes a lot more sense to me. Of course, even if she was there, it doesn't really create an inconsistency with the staking since she doesn't stake the second twilight in EP4 either, so attributing it to the author change probably works better. |
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2012-10-16, 13:18 | Link #30874 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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I was thinking along the lines of a mirror effect. Kyrie and Rudolf Investigate suspecting Eva and battling Evatrices furniture. Kyrie and Rudolf rampage with Eva putting a stop to them. Eva killed Battler. Battlers fate is unknown. The number of shots fired by Kyrie and Rudolf in EP 3 fits to the number of people they killed in EP 7 if Shannon and Kanon = 1. I remember reading on the wiki something like: Maria: The corpse leaves no traces of abuse. In contrast: Maria strangled to death. Yasu HAS to have been there. Evatrice = the King in this Chessgame. Rudolf pinned the King and the Rook.Evatrice said it herself.Kyrie and Rudolf thought they checkmated the King and are proven Bishops with Hideyoshi potentially aiding them as the White Knight. Several indications put Maria as the Black King such as her status in each EP except where Kyrie and Rudolf rampaged.Her status implies several stalemates with the White King Battler. However, a King cannot "Kill" another King in Chess as they cannot move next to another nor can they check each other. The reason for this is because if Kings are next to another they check each other which is an illegal move. In other words, by Chess Logic, Eva cannot kill Maria. Thats why we see Beatrice doing so. Here's what probably happened: Maria/Black King was in a hopeless position on the board after Rosa was killed. Beatrice/Yasu resigned/gave up and fell her own King/killed Maria. From here on, Evatrice had opened a new game replacing Maria. |
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2012-10-16, 17:27 | Link #30875 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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For example the conversation between Kyrie and one of the stakes is usually interpreted as a way to give additional information about how jealous Kyrie was of Asumu. Quote:
It's just a theory though and not universally shared so do with it what you want. Quote:
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If the word 'body' had come up, maybe due to Battler's prompting her to repeat in red something, then Kanon's body was there as well as Shannon and Kanon share the same body. However this might work in English. I don't know if in Japanese it would still work but that's how I interpreted the scene. |
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2012-10-17, 02:21 | Link #30876 | ||||
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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"HAS to have been there" ... based on what? The end result seems to imply much more that she wasn't. Quote:
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2012-10-17, 05:15 | Link #30877 | |||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Japanese often doesn't use sentence subjects, so (It) can be explained if we suppose that Eva oba-san was the culprit. would be the standalone sentence version for your first example. Japanese doesn't use "a" or "the", so (The) window is sealed from the inside and Natsuhi did not let Kinzo escape...!! would be the standalone sentence version for your second example. I think you're right, on both accounts. It doesn't mean she isn't dead at the time, just that she doesn't have to be. |
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2012-10-18, 00:04 | Link #30878 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Do the Van Dine rules presented in EP7 apply to the Rokkenjima gameboards?
Will's red when he solves a separate case at the beginning: It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit! ...Van Dine's Twenty Rules, Rule #11 Last edited by Ryuudou; 2012-10-18 at 04:32. |
2012-10-18, 00:39 | Link #30879 |
The True Culprit
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If it does, there's still no contradiction. The culprit isn't a servant, it's the head of the Ushiromiya family posing as a servant.
And the spirit of the rule is important. In Van Dine's time, servants in mystery novels were usually paper-thin Redshirts that could be sacrificed as the villain without any fleshed out "real" characters having to be punished. What the rule is actually forbidding is the culprit being some throwaway character who's completely expendable, such as Genji, who has basically no personality.
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2012-10-18, 01:21 | Link #30880 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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To be fair, though, the actual justification given by Van Dine for that rule is that the culprit shouldn't be someone who would ordinarily come under suspicion, or in other words, someone who isn't "obvious". Considering the amount of times that the servants get suspected because of the master keys, making one of them the culprit DOES sort of violate the spirit of the rule. But in the end, Ryukishi repurposes a lot of the Knox/Dine rules, so it doesn't really matter.
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