2018-07-23, 13:05 | Link #3102 | |
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Location: Moscow, RU
Age: 35
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2018-08-01, 13:53 | Link #3105 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I've read through the recent posts here and I do not see anything that moves us any further from what we got in 2009, save for some retconning of other characters. In the original Code Geass, Lelouch is DEAD, but Taniguichi did state that the ending could be interpreted any way the viewer wanted. That was kind of him to do so even though he and Okouchi stated Lelouch had died. I've no problem with people thinking Lelouch is alive, what I do have a problem with is ANYONE trying to tell other fans of Code Geass (or any show) what to think. The new installment "Lelouch of the Resurrection" has not even come out yet and the two extremes are already at each other's throats. The old Cart Driver club does have reason to be exited since in the preview we see the cart in the foreground lying on its side with CC and someone else riding on camels. At 0:50 in the preview: Is that Lelouch? None of us know. We have have to wait and see and that is my suggestion for everybody here. Let's not re-ignite the flame-wars of the past. It was cantankerous back then, and it will be now. If someone wants Lelouch to be alive in their view, that is perfectly fine with me so long as they don't try to convince me of it since I view him as dead. Does he have a code? Maybe, maybe not. Just wait for the new show to find out instead of having a melt down now before we even know what is going on in the new series/installment.
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2018-08-02, 07:21 | Link #3106 |
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Join Date: May 2018
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There's a difference between prefering Lelouch to be alive and actuakky believeing that it is the true canon ending.
As explained in https://www.reddit.com/user/Geassedb...in_body_index/ it is perfectly fine if people prefer him to be alive. But there's a big problem is people start imagining that their headcanon is the only real canon. That will only lead to disappoint, confusion, frustration and anger, and this will surely create a backlash which will hurt both the fandom and the show. Furious fans lashing out at the show staff is in fashion these days, let's not forget the crzay fans who sent death threats to the Darling in the FranXX staff. Therefore it is important that while people it's fine if prefer their personal headcanon they must be made aware that a headcanon is a headcanon and not actual canon. As such it's important to point out that not only did the show staff repeatedly state that Lelouch is truly dead, the anime itself makes it impossible for Lelouch to have the code. If people know thata nd prefer their headcanon, that's totally OK (as long as they don't go around claiming that their headcanon is fact, like so many do) I do need to clarify some confusion. It was never said that Code Geass was open ended or anything like that. That's a myth. What was said was that people were free to interpret Lelouch's death as a happy or a sad ending. They NEVER said people were free to interpret Lelouch's death itself. His death has always been set in stone and they clearly explained how this was a matter of principle for them. |
2018-08-02, 13:21 | Link #3107 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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Your type of post is the kind of nonsense I was hoping would be avoided this time around.
No, it is not a myth that Taniguichi stated the ending could be interpreted any way the viewer wishes. That was stated in an interview in Newtype: Quote:
I interpret it as Lelouch died and it was a tragic but necessary ending. Other people didn't like that and the Director was kind enough to state it can be interpreted however the viewer wishes (which makes sense since not he--nor anyone else--can tell other people what to think or believe). This is why I do not respect, nor adhere to the concept of Geek-Canon. "Canon" is for religions not fantasy-fiction. I realize in Geek culture this nonsense has gotten out of control (I'm in the whole ST: Discovery fight with regard to Star Trek myself at the moment and the whole "but, muh canon" has gotten stupid at this point). At over 40-years of age, my tolerance for this type of BS no longer exits. What needs to change in Geek-culture (I consider myself an SF Geek so I do not use the word as a pejorative), is the use of "canon" referring to an unchangeable "word" from a G-d or deity. These are corporate products made by people not G-ds, therefore it is nonsense to use the term "canon" when talking about fiction or fantasy writing. It is one thing when it is a real life religion that effects people's lives it is quite another when we're talking about anime or movies or other forms of entertainment. Therefore, I don't care about fan-approved "canon" (since that's what it usually boils down to). I use what is OFFICIAL, and that means everything a company licenses for a franchise and interviews with the creators of these products. If the company screws up their story's setting, plot, world, etc. then we have to accept they messed up and then we chose individually what we wish to keep and wish to reject. That is what has happened with Code Geass. Some people were satisfied with the ending (like me, and it appears you also). Others were not, and Director Taniguichi realized that and like a good business man he left the ending open for interpretation. I read your "reddit" opinions and view them as just that: OPINION. They have absolutely ZERO weight on the subject unless you are an official representative of Ban Dai/Sunrise who is working on the new Code Geass project. In other words, your Reddit analysis is as valuable as this person's (I played "Devil's advocate" here and chose one that contradicts you even though I agree Lelouch is dead). https://www.reddit.com/r/CodeGeass/c...ainedspoilers/ What you fail to understand here (and I can tell by your posts) is that in a fictional story, Ban Dai, can retcon EVERYTHING. Could Lelouch now have a code if Ban Dai/Sunrise declares it? Yes. Could Lelouch be alive if they declare it? Yes. How do I know that? Spoiler for A rather important retcon in the retelling of R2:
Further proof (that is clear as day) is that we are now getting a new Code Gess called "LELOUCH of the resurrection". Therefore, one way or another Lelouch is either alive now (which I doubt, but it is possible), or will be resurrected (makes more sense to me, but others disagree). My opinion at the moment is that Lelouch is dead (as Ichiro Okouchi stated in 'Continue' vol 42, October 2008) right now. Can Ban Dai/Sunrise say, "NOPE, he had a Code (from whoever they chose) and was alive"? Yes, they can do that. So, here is the point to my long winded response to you. STOP, trying to bully other fans into your way of thinking. I've gotten death threats from people who dislike my Nexus Arcana series of science fiction novels, so that is not some excuse for your actions since anybody that goes into the public light--even small fry like me--get them from the various nut jobs out in society. Also, it isn't YOUR JOB (unless Ban Dai/Sunrise hired you) to school other Code Gess fans on any part of the series. Discussion is fine, telling them your opinion is fine, even explaining why you have that opinion is fine and arguing about conflicting opinions is fine. What is NOT OKAY is when you tell someone YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT OPINION BECAUSE I SAY SO. If you do that with me, I'll tell you to take a long walk off a short pier as I consider that harassment and bullying of others. Therefore, I will ask you again to please stop this nonsensical behavior. It does no one any good.
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Last edited by GundamFan0083; 2018-08-02 at 14:09. |
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2018-08-02, 23:03 | Link #3109 | |||||||||||||||
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Join Date: May 2018
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Lie?
You're the down who is creating a smokescreen here. Nowhere in that quoted text do they talk about Lleouch being dead or alive? They are talking about how they feel about the ending, and then it was said that people are free to interpret that as they wish. HOW THEY FEEL about the ending, not what HAPPENED during the ending. This is even corroboared by the interview in 'Continue' vol 42, (October 2008) where the following is said: "There are probably a lot of people who think of it as a Bad End, a tragedy, considering the protagonist's, Lelouch's end as well. However, Lelouch says in the first episode: "Only those prepared to be shot are allowed to pull the trigger themselves." If you were to think of that as his pride, then I think his getting shot (killed) in the end was a logical end. Of course, I understand that not all of the viewers will accept this ending. There were people who wanted a happier ending, after all." They talk about bad ending and happy ending, not about Lelouch dying or not. People are free to interpret Lelouch's death as happy or sad, that's what he said. He did NOT say that people are free to interpret Lelouch's death itself. Quote:
Read the what they talk about! Quote:
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If you're so "old ands wise", why waste your time amongst people you don't respect. Go somewhere where you feel more at home. Quote:
That concept was later transplanted to fiction where the "pope" (i.e. Word of God, i.e. the authority on the fiction) decides what is true in his fictional world and what is not. Headcanon is the domain of fans, canon is the domain of Word of God. Quote:
Canon is canon and is dictated by Word of God, whether some random fans like it or not. Quote:
Live commentary by the creators is opinion? The official guide book is opinion? Tweets by the show staff are opinion? The officially remade epilogue is opinion? Quote:
I only provided the quotes and the sources to them. Quote:
You compare the words of the creators to some guy's opinion Quote:
But as of yet there hasn't been a single retcon! The movies are a separate canon, they not not change R2 AT ALL, which is what the entire reddit post was about. Lelouch is dead in R2 and they've said they won't change anything about R2, EVER. Is he dead in the AU? As far as we can tell from the movies yes, since nothing about Lelouch's fate has changed. Can they do a 180 and start the sequel with Lelouch saying he fooled everyone? Sure, but until that actually happens, it hasn't happened. Quote:
All of this is exactly as I said in the reddit post. Lelouch is confirmed alive in the sequel, hence the name "Lelouch of the Resurrection". Long winded yes, you repeated yourself several times and ended up saying the exact same things which are said in the reddit post you rejected. Quote:
That reddit post consist of the official statements of the creators. Are interviews bullying now? Quote:
I'm not allowed to "school" fans about the series? Ok, sure. Who was bullying who here? Quote:
Not only do you repeat many of teh things which it says, but now you say the exact opposite of what the post explicitly says it wants to do. I'll quote the text, since you obviously didn't bother to read it. "Everyone is free to believe whatever he or she wants." And elsewhere: "And that's why I want to remind people they're free to believe whatever they want, but please, do keep in mind that fan theories are fan theories and they are not canon nor fact" So what are you crying about? Are you sure you're 40? Quote:
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Look in the mirror, there's only one person with nonsensical behaviour Calm down and don't start drama where there is none |
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2018-08-03, 04:23 | Link #3110 | |||
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
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I already posted what Taniguichi said, and it is clear he left the ending open. Your headcanon--to use your term--does not override what he said. Quote:
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. That was Okouchi, not Taniguichi. Quote:
With Akito we have a new Geass characer The Caretaker of Space-Time (or the personification of C's World in the opinion of some), that appears with little to no explanation about her. Spoiler for Cartaker of Space-Time:
With that kind of character anything becomes possible. Her quotes are also quite telling of what Ban Dai/Sunrise is doing with her. (To Leila Malcal) "I'm nobody, to Humans, I do not exist. But, I'm visible to those who are able to see me." (To Leila Malcal) "What am I, or we are is the collective consciousness of the Universe. I think that falls into your terminology. We intervene in the Evolution of Universe." (To Leila Malcal) "The ultimate wish of any life, is to exist for all eternity. Yet termination is destined. They eventually vanish." (To Leila Malcal) "The power you have, is a fragment of Geass. The power of Geass is far greater than what humans should possess. I insist that it should be taken back from them. I thought of humans as a defective form of life. That's why they shouldn't be allowed to touch or possess it. They'd better become extinct. But maybe you will be the one to disprove my opinion." (To Gene Smilas) "Their faith in each other is admirable. Way more admirable than yours, Gene Smilas. You are the one who is going to die." That gives them a lot of leeway to alter events as they so chose. In Renya we see that Geass powers are more extensive and expansive than what the original anime shows and we have a Lelouch clone/Dash who is clearly the ancestor/previous incarnation of Lelouch. Both are part of the official timeline and both therefore move Code Geass beyond where we were at in 2009. To stay stuck in 2009 on this subject is not productive. The rest of your post is worthless flame-bait that I will simply ignore since it is irrelevant to the subject matter. What does matter is that Ban Dai/Sunrise is notorious for bringing back major characters in their anime. Char Aznable dies at A Boao Qu, but is back again in Zeta Gundam. Gundam Seed Destiny has characters who died in the first series come back again. So Ban Dai is known for this type of nonsense. Since you haven't seen Lelouch of the Resurrection, you have no clue whether Lelouch is alive or not, and neither do I. Only the writers of the new series know, so all of your assumptions are worthless and have no bearing on the facts of what is coming in the new series. They are simply your opinions and I for one will treat them as such.
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Last edited by GundamFan0083; 2018-08-03 at 04:46. |
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2018-08-03, 07:18 | Link #3114 | |
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2018-08-03, 07:59 | Link #3116 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Let's look at the positive side: there will be less shitposting involved when it comes out if this is only a movie and not a weekly series. Also, 2D mecha animators are dying out. For TV series, Sunrise is probably saving their best animators for Gundams.
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2018-08-03, 10:31 | Link #3117 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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There isn't much to go on, and it is nice to know now we are dealing with a movie not a whole series. Still, a lot of information packed into one movie. It will be interesting to see where they are taking this. I like the play on words they're using in the title. Re has a wide range of definitions, so I can only speculate on what meaning they're giving it. Perhaps Ban Dai/Sunrise is using the term to mean "concerning". "Surrection" usually means upheaval. So the Re: Surrection may mean "Concerning Upheaval", while at the same time it may also be a double-entente meaning Resurrection. The new artwork is certainly tantalizing in a few ways. The cracked mask of Suzaku (now Zero) in front of CC in a pool of blood is interesting enough, but the shadow of Zero makes for a nice teaser.
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2018-08-03, 14:29 | Link #3118 | |
Best Girl Connoisseur
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Age: 29
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Concerning the visuals, they didn't really give us anything to work with aside from showing two new characters. The backdrops and what I assume to be the ruined Ikaruga isn't really adding anything much. The only real new info there was C.C. engaging someone and that person seems to be quite adept at CQC seeing as they parried her gun. Concerning what C.C. was saying, I don't speak Japanese so I've no clue what was said. Can someone fluent in Japanese kindly translate what was said? You'd have my thanks and it'd be truly appreciated. Edit: Forgot about that poster. It looks amazing and quite honestly does a better job of being a teaser than the PV haha.
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2018-08-03, 15:04 | Link #3119 |
Shadow girl
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Canada
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Instead of arguing one what is considered canon, I think every incarnation of the story has its own individual continuity. The anime has its own canon. The OVAs have their own. The mangas have their own. Now the movies have their own!
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2018-08-03, 16:35 | Link #3120 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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かつて世界を握り、世界を壊した男がいた。 その男ルルーシュ・ヴィ・ブリタニア亡き後の世界。 そこにあるもう実情か、混沌か。 時代を制憲し一大ムーヴメント築き上げったコードギアス。 その新たな扉が開く。 【復活のルルーシュ】 「私にわまだ約束がある。」 There was once a man who grasped at the world and broke it. That man was Lelouch Vi Brittania, and this is the world after his death. Is what we find here reality, or is it chaos? The great movement that brought about this new age -- Code Geass -- opens a new door. Lelouch of the Re;surrection. "I still have a promise to keep." As it relates to the "passionate debate" above (which is the real reason I was here), I wouldn't read too much into this short narration, as it's very open to interpretation. (The main purpose is just to establish that this movie occurs after the events of the earlier anime, and to very vaguely set the stage.) I'd ask that people avoid getting too heated and stop the personal attacks. Have to wait and see what happens. Edit: Made some minor improvements to the translation, but still could use some more input.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2018-08-03 at 21:32. |
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drama, mecha |
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