2009-05-12, 11:31 | Link #301 |
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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A bit late for this comment, but there's really nothing wrong with being labelled as a tsundere. On the contrary, Aoba being compared to other 'classic tsunderes' like Madoka of Kimagure Orange Road fame is nothing but a compliment. In fact, while it might not be all that evident so far in the anime, Aoba's reason for being so tsun and her gradual change to dere is probably the most well done transition I've seen in recent memory. That's why I say to people, just give it time.
As for this episode, I think they did Adachi one better in that they actually made Miki distuingishable from Nakanishi. In anycase, I really love how Adachi puts subtle comparisons to be partly hidden by his more obvious comparisons. In this episode, we got the almost too obvious, 'who are you?' comments by their new slugger, where he doesn't remember anyone in the ream but Kou and three other guys. But underneath this, he deftly hides the other comparison, where Aoba says she doesn't feel anything when she saw the first stringer's ace pitch. But when Kou pitched? UTTERLY transfixed. Which leads us to what I saying before... the very slow transition of Aoba to dere. And this episode highlights two major points, one being of Kou's 'confession', and two being her recognition of Kou's pitching talents. It ain't much, but its a start. |
2009-05-12, 11:41 | Link #302 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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If you want to talk about a tsundere character, talk about Azuma. :P
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2009-05-12, 11:44 | Link #303 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
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I'm with you there, DragoonKain3. Although I have no love lost for classical archetypes - I prefer to judge characters more on their individual traces, and not their "mold" - Aoba is one fine girl. And it just gets better with time.
I just wish this anime and the manga it's based on keep going for a long, long time.
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2009-05-12, 16:19 | Link #304 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2009
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The one thing I have always loved about Adachi Mitsuru's stuff is - he doesn't spoon-feed you everything. I don't mean he makes you work for it either, like deep focused concentration - that would be a real pain. You can just watch the anime and take what you see at face value and you may enjoy it, meanwhile grimacing about the less spectacular graphics style. But it's like he puts his whole being into "the telling of a real story", just like it might be in life with all it's subtlety and shades of grey. It's just that there is always something else there to "realize", in every story besides what you have seen and heard. You may eventually hear or see something that you then realize, you've been seeing all along. That's the moment that makes me love this guy's stuff. Does that make any sense to anyone? I don't know exactly how to say it.
Sometimes a main character's expressionless face is just that, expressionless, but sometimes it means something. And there is some difference you just learn to see I guess. Sometimes Adachi's blank looks mean a character is trying to "keep" a blank look on his face. Just like.. we do.. He's the only one that ever gives me that impression after seeing his artwork. |
2009-05-12, 16:26 | Link #305 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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How much more spoon feeding do you need before you can call it being spoon fed? The whole anime has AobaxKou written all over it.
It's one of those I can't fall for this person cause he/she was a friend/family member of the person that I fell in loved with in the past. Cause it's like betraying the memory of the person I was once happy with. Then the person who will replace the person that died will have some sort of inferiority complex like I will never be as good or even close to being as perfect as the person that once made you happy. |
2009-05-13, 02:48 | Link #307 | ||
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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I mean, as a manga reader, watching the Aoba of the show and comparing her to the Aoba of the manga (which is currently set about 2/3 years later than the latest episode) is like comparing night and day in terms of how she treats Kou. And the best part about it? I didn't even notice the gradual change until the anime aired. Now THAT is how you do a classical tsundere. Quote:
I mean... Spoiler for very very VERY slight manga spoilers:
So yeah, it's far from decided. Plus with Adachi also having written H2, one can never be too sure of the final pairings until the fat lady does sing. As for how you say its going to unfold with the conflict of the inferiority complex you mentioned... well, let's just say it's not exactly that. You'd know what I mean once a certain character is introduced... |
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2009-05-13, 03:10 | Link #308 | |||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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2009-05-13, 04:23 | Link #309 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
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People sure of romantic pairings in any of Adachi's works do tend to have a few upsets from time to time... Is all I have to say.
I, for one, am still not over Slow Step's anime ending. That one I would have never guessed... not bad, mind you, just unexpected as all hell. That said, I can't see this ending with anything other than Koh and Aoba getting together. BUT I could be wrong, as I've been before.
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2009-05-13, 06:21 | Link #311 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
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Oh, c'mon, H2 was always about what it ultimately became.
Spoiler for H2 general happenings:
That's to say I wasn't overly "traumatized" like some people seemed to have been, by it. In any event, I don't see this one ending like that. But I didn't see Slow Step's ending as well, so... take it as you will.
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2009-05-13, 10:28 | Link #312 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Why is it insulting? I already explained exactly why it was insulting. It leads to generalizations about how her purpose in the series isn't to have her own storyline, but to eventually "become dere towards Kou". It makes her personality and storyline all about Kou and how she reacts to him, instead of about her trying to work through something very painful. Can't you see the difference in how people talk about Kou and Aoba? No one pretends that Kou's only major role in the series is connected to eventually falling in love with Aoba, so the fact that people can't see why it's borderline insulting to define the other main character that way sort of makes me wonder.
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2009-05-13, 12:26 | Link #313 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I understand why people are upset at Aoba being labelled a tsundere. It associates her with shallow characters and moe anime. But I'm afraid I agree with DragoonKain that that doesn't make it untrue. It's just that that's not all she is.
In fact, I think she could turn out to be the best tsundere ever. Her tsuntsun hatred of Kou is so intense, natural and real. Not faked or shallow, as it often seems to be in normal tsundere. And she is clearly going to soften toward him and become some form of dere, although that is still far in the future. She is now just beginning to see his uprightness, his honest love of her sister, and his amazing baseball skill. I mean, you can call her "tsundere" or just draw attention to the fact that one aspect of this plot appears to be the traditional "I hate him I hate him....I love him" that is the basis of a whole class of shoujo manga. This show has the strands of his pitching, her pitching, her coming to like him and his coming to like her, underlain by both their relationships with her dead sister. Covers all the bases, lol.
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2009-05-13, 12:33 | Link #314 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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2009-05-13, 12:33 | Link #315 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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I admit I already though Koh and Aoba will be the ones who will get together from what I've seen in the anime so far. But my prejudice are based on other anime/manga series not familiarity with Adachi's work. So I will keep it in mind that he can be a bit unpredictable when it comes to the final couples. At least it is good to be warned beforehand so I don't get my hopes up for a pairing. And besides I do like both Koh and Aoba so far for their individual merits regardless if they get together or not. At least I hope they will be good friends in the end. As for Aoba being a tsundere I don't know. I do think labels are thrown around too often but I think in this case when people say it they are not using it in a negative sense. So it all depends on how you use that label. Is Aoba's attitude like a tsundere, well possibly. But she is clearly not written that way as a form of fanservice. |
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2009-05-13, 12:39 | Link #317 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
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that is why Aoba has to hate him. Really, if Wakaba had known how those words would have caused all these problems, she would never had said them. It is kind of silly because those words only applied when Wakaba was around. that is how much aoba loved her sister.
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2009-05-13, 13:11 | Link #318 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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In this case, "tsundere" flattens her. It ignores the other aspects of her personality in favor of defining her by her relationship with Kou. If you were using "tsundere" as an adjective ("Aoba is tsundere towards Kou") as opposed to a simple noun ("Aoba is a tsundere"), that would be one thing, but it's not being used that way. Most of what people have to say about her is "what a tsundere!" or "wait until she gets all dere with Kou", which is Not. The. Point.
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2009-05-13, 13:25 | Link #319 |
A blast from the past
Artist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 47
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But you have to remember she already demonstrated a strong dislike for him, even before Wakaba ever uttered such words. Jealousy of her sister - or of him - even before such a flat statement. There's much more going on, actually - and it's going to be a beauty when it all unravels.
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2009-05-13, 22:29 | Link #320 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Maybe I am just trying to rehabilitate the term "tsundere," lol. I definitely understand where musouka is coming from, and I sympathize. I'll try to use the term adjectivally, since I am certainly not thinking of Aoba as just tsundere and nothing else. And maybe she will never become dere, anyway. We'll see.
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baseball, drama, romance, school life, shounen, sports |
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