Bitter Virgin

[Irenicus]

It's nice (?) to see people still talking about this manga even after so long...

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

This isn't about the mother and daughter, its about Suwa. He is the title character.

While I don't care for the mother nor do I believe that this plot point needs a resolution -- frankly, she failed her daughter horribly and some wounds aren't meant to heal -- I have to agree with DanielSong39's other criticisms.

Don't get me wrong, I think very highly of the manga, but the two female characters really did get chafed. Yuzu in particular seems to have a nasty heel face turn near the end just to provide a cheap last minute melodrama to a story that really didn't need it. In a story that tries for redemption it did itself a severe disservice by not allowing Aikawa to get another venue of acceptance through friendship, especially since it sacrificed all the build up for something like a chapter's worth of worthless drama.

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I read this about a year ago, What i recall that the ending was set up in an original and unique way, They both acknowledge that they probably wont be together forever, So refreshing from the they lived happily ever after cliche that were used to seeing in a manga.

While I agree that it's a realistic ending, I didn't actually find it all that refreshing. It was way too fast, and the thoughts they had, while technically "deep," were rather pointless in context. It was never about whether they were going to stay together or not or if they're true loves united; it was about whether Aikawa finally opened herself fully to Suwa and find a measure of contentment. All the "realistic" stuff is just extra baggage that weighted the ending down, IMO of course.

[Poetic Justice]

I think that her opening to Suou had already been explored thoroughly throughout the series and it was fairly obvious with the way she acted around him after a point that he really was the only guy she trusted.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Arturro

True. It's about how fast he has grown from boy to man, because of his love.

Yeah, he is the bitter virgin.

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I read this about a year ago, What i recall that the ending was set up in an original and unique way, They both acknowledge that they probably wont be together forever, So refreshing from the they lived happily ever after cliche that were used to seeing in a manga.

I would have liked a little epilogue though.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

While I don't care for the mother nor do I believe that this plot point needs a resolution -- frankly, she failed her daughter horribly and some wounds aren't meant to heal -- I have to agree with DanielSong39's other criticisms.

The mother definitely should be left in the dust. You can understand what went on and all, but the mother should have been more understanding of her own daughter.

Don't get me wrong, I think very highly of the manga, but the two female characters really did get chafed. Yuzu in particular seems to have a nasty heel face turn near the end just to provide a cheap last minute melodrama to a story that really didn't need it. In a story that tries for redemption it did itself a severe disservice by not allowing Aikawa to get another venue of acceptance through friendship, especially since it sacrificed all the build up for something like a chapter's worth of worthless drama.

We could have done without Yuzu's romantic involvement with Daisuke. It made it too much of a harem. At least she accepted it early on though. She was a real sport about it.

While I agree that it's a realistic ending, I didn't actually find it all that refreshing. It was way too fast, and the thoughts they had, while technically "deep," were rather pointless in context. It was never about whether they were going to stay together or not or if they're true loves united; it was about whether Aikawa finally opened herself fully to Suou and find a measure of contentment. All the "realistic" stuff is just extra baggage that weighted the ending down, IMO of course.

True. If it was about their future the story would have continued. This was a character drama and not a plot drama. It was about the character's growth and development. Once Daisuke wasn't so bitter, the story aptly ended.

I still wouldn't have minded an epilogue or even a sequel. The author can write some awesome drama if she wanted to. Her comedy is great too, which is why her current series is a comedy, so yeah.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I think that her opening to Suwa had already been explored thoroughly throughout the series and it was fairly obvious with the way she acted around him after a point that he really was the only guy she trusted.

Of course, which means the ending should (and did) appropriately conclude this ongoing process. The rest of it about them thinking about how they might not together forever or whatever is simply not needed. One could say something like, "hmm, that's mature of them," and I see a lot of people here thinking that; or one could say, "well, so what does that have to do with anything?" as I did.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Yeah, he is the bitter virgin.

Is he? I've always read it as Aikawa being the bitter virgin. Bitter because, well, you know. The virgin part I thought was about her naivete, fear of men, etc. So she was a tragic paradox, wounded and embittered before she could even left the "virgin" stage, mentally speaking. And Suwa "cured" both, giving her a taste of romance and the emotional strength to come to terms with the horrible events that happened to her.

We could have done without Yuzu's romantic involvement with Daisuke. It made it too much of a harem. At least she accepted it early on though. She was a real sport about it.

I agree with you that I liked the way she was a real sport about it for most of the series, which was nice. I strongly disliked the way she suddenly wasn't a real sport about it near the very end though.

My reaction was like, "Hey, wasn't Yuzu, you know, a nice girl? What the hell happened?" The story ended up leaving Yuzu's character and her friendship with Aikawa hanging out there unfinished, uncertain, and with rather bad prospects. Sure, the focus was never her, but that doesn't mean the reader wouldn't notice or care.

I still wouldn't have minded an epilogue or even a sequel. The author can write some awesome drama if she wanted to. Her comedy is great too, which is why her current series is a comedy, so yeah.

I still find it rather amusing that most of her stuff is either supernatural horror or madcap ecchi comedy, while this one, her only romance, is without a shred of either genres. And totally different.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Is he? I've always read it as Aikawa being the bitter virgin. Bitter because, well, you know. The virgin part I thought was about her naivete, fear of men, etc. So she was a tragic paradox, wounded and embittered before she could even left the "virgin" stage, mentally speaking. And Suwa "cured" both, giving her a taste of romance and the emotional strength to come to terms with the horrible events that happened to her.

I guess it refers to both of them then. That's what makes a title great. Better than something boring and simple like "Naruto" or "Claymore."

I agree with you that I liked the way she was a real sport about it for most of the series, which was nice. I strongly disliked the way she suddenly wasn't a real sport about it near the very end though.

My reaction was like, "Hey, wasn't Yuzu, you know, a nice girl? What the hell happened?" The story ended up leaving Yuzu's character and her friendship with Aikawa hanging out there unfinished, uncertain, and with rather bad prospects. Sure, the focus was never her, but that doesn't mean the reader wouldn't notice or care.

I think she was influenced by Ibuse towards the end there. And how she was about to truly lose Daisuke she may have freaked out a little. Either way, it would have done better with what we both said.

I still find it rather amusing that most of her stuff is either supernatural horror or madcap ecchi comedy, while this one, her only romance, is without a shred of either genres. And totally different.

This manga had some pretty good humor. It needed to humor to lighten the seriousness of it at times too, so it did work out.

[User68604]

subbed, just started, dam this is intense. i got close to shedding manly tears during the flashback scenes - up to chapter 13..

[User68604]

Originally Posted by Ultenth

I still don't see how anyone can think the ending is sad. Boggles my mind. The author is just stating the feelings of each of the characters, she is not stating that it is what WILL happen in their future. She is simply showing their feelings, and in a way it proves their love even more, because they both want the best possible for their partner, even if it means finding someone else who would be better for them. In my mind, the fact that they care that much about each other signals that they probably will stay together, as their love isn't based on something as shallow as lust or possessiveness.

bingo!! completely agree.