2009-11-13, 21:05 | Link #3224 | |
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Artist
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Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 34
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2009-11-13, 23:54 | Link #3225 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Bern and Lambda don't tell outright lies most of the time; Bern twists the truth constantly though, and is very untrustworthy. Lambda is just brutally honest, which is sort of funny; has she ever actually said something that isn't true? She hasn't been terribly HELPFUL, but she seems bizarrely frank.
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2009-11-14, 01:56 | Link #3227 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Basically I posit Kumasawa as the one who has been taking care of cliff-falling Beatrice from her birth. She probably told her about different tales (the big-wolves in the forest) and educated her, since she was the only female servant to have been working from 1952-1968. As meta-Beatrice comprised cliff-falling Beatrice as well, that's why Kumasawa was someone like Virgilia to her.
Though Kumasawa did not know about Real-Beatrice (Maria's master) in my hypothesis. What do you think? Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-14 at 02:12. |
2009-11-14, 02:05 | Link #3228 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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Though, if that were the case...none of the family should have been surprised by that...since it is likely that half or more of the parents would also have that feature...genetically....unless of course...all his children have recessive genes, or the mother's dominate genes took over.
As for the other theory....who signed Maria's book? There are two signatures that aren't Maria's: Beatrice and Virgilia's (spelled incorrectly, but whatever).
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2009-11-14, 02:18 | Link #3229 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Afterall, Sakutarou was created by Maria. The magical scene showed that Beatrice and Virgilia made a human body for Sakutarou. In reality, a human body Sakutarou could not have existed at all. What was actually done in reality might be that Maria showing Sakutarou to real Beatrice and then real Beatrice urged Maria to imagine a human body for Sakutarou. |
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2009-11-14, 02:46 | Link #3230 | |
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I don't like that theory because Bernkastel said that Beatrice is a personification of the rules of that world. Virgilia is more like helping Battler understand those rules.
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2009-11-14, 05:13 | Link #3231 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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What that means I don't know. |
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2009-11-14, 06:06 | Link #3232 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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My hypothesis is:
Kumasawa served the cliff-falling Beatrice in Kuadorian until she died in 1968. And therefore she was that Beatrice' s teacher or her guardian. Virgilia was the personification of Kumasawa towards cliff-falling Beatrice. But that cliff-falling Beatrice is not the Beatrice as mastermind of the murders. Mastermind Beatrice was the one who taught Maria. Meta-Beatrice was consisted of ALL Beatrices and thus she said Virgilia as her teacher. But Kumasawa was not related to Mastermind Beatrice. Virgilia extended the gentle personification to meta-Battler but Kumasawa would not normally do so unless towards small kids. |
2009-11-14, 07:49 | Link #3233 | |||
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: That's right... where DO I live?!
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And Beatrice is supposed to be furniture in Ep 5, right? (No, this is not a question. Don't tell me. Haven't yet played Ep5) Quote:
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Last edited by Neofio3; 2009-11-14 at 08:17. |
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2009-11-14, 09:23 | Link #3234 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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If magic scenes were to be completely dismissed as total lies, this story would be pretty lame. It is almost certain that Kumasawa = Virgilia, and we know that Virgilia is Beatrice's teacher. We have seen a scene were both Virgilia and Beatrice sign a declaration in Maria's diary. Ange knows that story and she never says "where the hell is Virigilia's signature?", also in the anime we clearly see two different handwritings and both of them are different from Maria's handwriting. Beatrice exists, Virgilia exists. We already know who Virgilia is, we only need to find out who is Beatrice.
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2009-11-14, 10:01 | Link #3235 | |
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The order of Beatrice's would then go: Beatrice I: Kumasawa. She abdicates the role and becomes titleless, soon to become "Virgilia" as a meta representation. Beatrice II: The one in Kuwadorian, killed by Rosa. Has no meta representation. Beatrice III: Present Beatrice. May or may not be the culprit, but almost certainly related to Maria. Beatrice III ver. a-x: Beatrice III may also refer to multiple individuals taking the title Beatrice in the present, as in the case of Eva-Beatrice, who's almost certainly a different real-world person than the original Beatrice III. Meta Beatrice may have nothing to do with these real-world Beatrice's and only acts as a representation of relationships and events. Her behavior however would most likely correspond to Beatrice III. |
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2009-11-14, 10:06 | Link #3236 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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wait wait you misunderstood me ^^:
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2009-11-14, 10:46 | Link #3237 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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The whole declaration was written by Beatrice, I suppose (the handwriting was done by one person). Only there were two signatures. Let me modify my hypothesis a bit: the first case was that Kumasawa in the past taught magic to both cliff-falling Beatrice and current Beatrice as mastermind in Kwadorian. Certainly initially the secret-lover Beatrice was the one who taught the cliff-falling Beatrice about magic. Considering the personality of Kumasawa, it was likely that she also conjured some sort of "magic" (probably related to mackerel.....). Or the case might simply be that Kumasawa discovered that mastermind Beatrice was having fun with Maria and Sakutarou, our Beatrice invited her to sign her name as a witness that Sakutarou was a living being while saying that Kumasawa was her master and was once a powerful witch (which was just a lie from our Beatrice's perspective, since she did not know Kumasawa did teach "magic" to cliff-falling Beatrice in the past in Kuadorian). In this case, my initial hypthesis does not need to be modified at all. Kumasawa was the kind of person to go along with this kind of playing and she probably did want to appease Maria as well. That may be the truth. But one thing piques me: The cursive signature "Warugirai" shown in the anime was quite neat. It should be written by someone well educated with English. So why she had to write down the translated sentence for the embossment on the chapel door? Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-14 at 12:02. |
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2009-11-14, 13:00 | Link #3238 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Uhm doesn't "Warugiria" actually shows that Kumasawa doesn't really have a vast knowledge?
If she had then she should have signed "Virgilia". The handwriting is also a lot less elegant than Beatrice's, and while Beatrice writes in italian, Kumasawa does it in japanese. I think everything is consistent with Kumasawa's character. Also the fact that she translated the inscription means that while she doesn't know english that well she isn't completely clueless about it. With the help of a dictionary she can translate it and, I must say, she didn't make any mistake.
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2009-11-14, 15:53 | Link #3239 | |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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1:she didnt exist in the GAME world, so if she died before she made it to rokijama than she indeed didnt exist there. 2: maybe she changed her name and thats why she didnt excist before the other games. 3:the reason why she didnt had any influence is (maybe) because the killing would happen no matter what happens, in that phrase she wouldnt have any influence in it. |
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2009-11-14, 16:10 | Link #3240 |
Crazy but OK xP
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 31
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btw I got 1 thing that troubles me, in almost every game there where 18 people on the island, but Kinzo was dead in the beginning of every game
so that means there should be another unknown person on the island, but he isnt the culprit because thats against Knox rule 1: The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow. that means that whatever Battler does, the murderer is one of the other 16 people... somehow that sounds screwed up ne? ^^;; Last edited by Dlanor A. Knox; 2009-11-14 at 16:36. |
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