Gundam Models Discussion Thread

[ZeroXSEED]

> wanting MG of obscure and stuff that won't sell

There's your problem

[Beefsquatch]

PG Unicorn looks kind of plain... I hope they release more pictures soon. Also PG full armor parts were announced for unicorn, milk that cow Bandai!

[ZeroXSEED]

Oh and PG Full Armor Unicorn is P-Bandai Exclusive

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

> wanting MG of obscure and stuff that won't sell

There's your problem

Oh, I don't have problem with it. I just said that it's like a slap in the face of the cancelled kits. Out of those cancelled MGs that I mentioned, AGE-FX is probably the only one I sorta want. So yeah, no problem.

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

Oh and PG Full Armor Unicorn is P-Bandai Exclusive.

At this point, I'm not surprised anymore.

[ZeroXSEED]

No joke, I want F90 myself, on top of GuAIZ and Earth Alliance's Not!GM and few other stuff

But it's just not possible

[Wild Goose]

PG Unicorn....

You just know Bandai is going to make a PG MUH EMPTY one of these days.

[Skye629]

HOLY SHITTTTT

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Beefsquatch

PG Unicorn looks kind of plain... I hope they release more pictures soon. Also PG full armor parts were announced for unicorn, milk that cow Bandai!

To be fair, the Unicorn already looks way complicated enough as it is.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

> wanting MG of obscure and stuff that won't sell

There's your problem

- The thing is the MG F90 was already made into a prototype back when they announced the MG F91. It's almost as bad...no actually it's WORSE than when Max Factory announced figma Archer back in 2009. At least they finally released the Archer figma. The MG F90? Pfft. I bet some evil Bandai exec is keeping the prototype in his office, gloating at all the rabid F90 fans out there. OH WAIT---

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- The thing is the MG F90 was already made into a prototype back when they announced the MG F91. It's almost as bad...no actually it's WORSE than when Max Factory announced figma Archer back in 2009. At least they finally released the Archer figma. The MG F90? Pfft. I bet some evil Bandai exec is keeping the prototype in his office, gloating at all the rabid F90 fans out there. OH WAIT---

Many other products get to the prototype stage before getting canned as well. Its non-release just means that there are costs entailed thereafter which Bandai does not want to bear because they outweigh the projected benefits.

Business decisions!

[Beefsquatch]

What ever happened to the Kshatriya MG(was it even real, my memory is kind of fuzzy)? I remember hearing stuff about it, but then everything just went silent for it.

[ZeroXSEED]

Originally Posted by Beefsquatch

What ever happened to the Kshatriya MG(was it even real, my memory is kind of fuzzy)? I remember hearing stuff about it, but then everything just went silent for it.

There's a prototype exist, the conclusion is that you need to reinforce the inner frame and binder hinges with metal, and that will drive up the cost beyond what considered reasonable.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Ottocycle

Many other products get to the prototype stage before getting canned as well. Its non-release just means that there are costs entailed thereafter which Bandai does not want to bear because they outweigh the projected benefits.

Business decisions!

- The F90 kit itself wouldn't have been a problem, but the only thing that could have made them baulk would have been the mission packs. They shouldn't have, because they already released the Victory Gundam separate from the V-Dash, and likewise they've released the Aile Strike Gundam and sold the Sword and Launcher bits later.

And while there's a lot of Mission Packs that the F90 has available, they really only need to do the main one (The A-Type) initially, and if there's enough fan demand to do more. Or they can even do a dick move and make the MG F90 compatible with the older 1/100 F90 weapons packs and sell those separately.

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- The F90 kit itself wouldn't have been a problem, but the only thing that could have made them baulk would have been the mission packs. They shouldn't have, because they already released the Victory Gundam separate from the V-Dash, and likewise they've released the Aile Strike Gundam and sold the Sword and Launcher bits later.

And while there's a lot of Mission Packs that the F90 has available, they really only need to do the main one (The A-Type) initially, and if there's enough fan demand to do more. Or they can even do a dick move and make the MG F90 compatible with the older 1/100 F90 weapons packs and sell those separately.

Because I'm a disillusioned adult I'll have to state the costs explicitly so that you'd understand the considerations. What are the costs to Bandai for producing a kit that wouldn't sell? Take note these are just off the top of my head and is by no means comprehensive.


Raw material and resource costs - The plastic, the metal used for the mold, electricity, human resources (workers) even

Inventory and logistics costs - Warehouse (for storage of the kits, the costs will increase the longer the longer the kits don't sell, therefore bleeds money) rental and maintenance, shipping

Opportunity costs - What if the time and effort used to produce this F90 kit had gone into producing a kit which is more likely to sell? (which is happening now because Bandai finds that it is too terrible a cost to bear.)

[wavehawk]

But there's also Sunk Costs, wherein they've -already- spent the money on it. Bandai's made the prototype, so part of the research, time and effort for the kit are already done. The only new development cost would be the actual molds if they hadn't done them already--the only pictures of the prototype MG F90 show a painted version and not close enough to see detail, so I can't tell if this was a 3D-printed prototype or a final sculpt.

They put it out at the same time as the F91, so it's highly likely they used most of the same ABS inner frame as the F91 (like the Crossbone Gundam uses much of the same inner frame as the F91 with a few tweaks). Development to production time would be a lot faster. And I mentioned that they could use some of the older F90 weapon pack molds if they don't want to invest in new molds for them (again, sunk costs). They've done it before, with some of their exclusives--in fact the latest Bandai Pro-Shop exclusive HG 1/144 Dynames is essentially a Dynames with additional weapons that were previously part of their kit campaigns.

I'll concede that the Opportunity Costs are likely the main reason, seeing that there's not a lot of fans of the F90/F91/Silhouette Formula/Victory generation (Crossbone Gundam seems to have a huge following, though) as opposed to Wing, 00, Seed or Unicorn.

But Bandai has done odd things before---can anyone explain why they went through the trouble of developing an HG 1/144 Pale Rider kit when the MS itself was not featured in any other media prior to the game it was shipped with? I honestly don't know how much of that kit was based off an existing mold and how much is new, but it looks like a lot of it is new. For an MS that was not even marketed prior to the release of the game it ships with. I guess the only argument is that since it's part of an exclusive game, Bandai can probably get away with raising the overall cost of the package and earn back whatever it put into making a new kit.

I know what you're going to say next: "If you're so angry that Bandai hasn't made an MG F90, why don't you build your own?"

My answer: I have.

[Ottocycle]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

But there's also Sunk Costs, wherein they've -already- spent the money on it. Bandai's made the prototype, so part of the research, time and effort for the kit are already done. The only new development cost would be the actual molds if they hadn't done them already--the only pictures of the prototype MG F90 show a painted version and not close enough to see detail, so I can't tell if this was a 3D-printed prototype or a final sculpt.

They put it out at the same time as the F91, so it's highly likely they used most of the same ABS inner frame as the F91 (like the Crossbone Gundam uses much of the same inner frame as the F91 with a few tweaks). Development to production time would be a lot faster. And I mentioned that they could use some of the older F90 weapon pack molds if they don't want to invest in new molds for them (again, sunk costs). They've done it before, with some of their exclusives--in fact the latest Bandai Pro-Shop exclusive HG 1/144 Dynames is essentially a Dynames with additional weapons that were previously part of their kit campaigns.

Agreed, sunk costs exist. But if you haven't noticed yet, I can take your second paragraph and make it into a argument that supports canning the kit because the sunk cost had been reduced by all these common development and research done on F91, et al.

As such I can say that since the sunk cost are potentially reduced to acceptable levels, enough such that less pain is felt when they are cut off and these losses can be easier recouped by producing other sellable kits.

Originally Posted by wavehawk

I'll concede that the Opportunity Costs are likely the main reason, seeing that there's not a lot of fans of the F90/F91/Silhouette Formula/Victory generation (Crossbone Gundam seems to have a huge following, though) as opposed to Wing, 00, Seed or Unicorn.

Thank you for seeing where I'm coming from.

Originally Posted by wavehawk

But Bandai has done odd things before---can anyone explain why they went through the trouble of developing an HG 1/144 Pale Rider kit when the MS itself was not featured in any other media prior to the game it was shipped with? I honestly don't know how much of that kit was based off an existing mold and how much is new, but it looks like a lot of it is new. For an MS that was not even marketed prior to the release of the game it ships with. I guess the only argument is that since it's part of an exclusive game, Bandai can probably get away with raising the overall cost of the package and earn back whatever it put into making a new kit.

It's only my speculation at this point since I've no idea what this kit is. I think it's better off speaking from a purely cost point of view, since it's a HG. The benefits may be as you suspect.

Originally Posted by wavehawk

I know what you're going to say next: "If you're so angry that Bandai hasn't made an MG F90, why don't you build your own?"

My answer: I have.

I had not intended to ask that, since I merely lurk here at times and know not about the posting habits of the denizens here. But kudos to your determination to build your own F90 nonetheless.

[ZeroXSEED]

You guys need to know that the biggest cost of modelmaking is neither prototype nor plastic

It's the mold

The mold are the single biggest piece of money investation after injection machine, to make a mold you're betting tens of thousand kit to be sold over the years for it to be profitable.

Prototype is not hard to make, it's making the prototype economical that's the problem. Again, we HAVE prototype Ksathriya MG that will never see the light of the day because it's impossible to make it cheap enough for mass production.

Bandai likely held the F90 for a reason, whether it's good or not we will never know.

Hell we never get Blast Impulse.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Ottocycle

I had not intended to ask that, since I merely lurk here at times and know not about the posting habits of the denizens here. But kudos to your determination to build your own F90 nonetheless.

- I usually take it very personally since the F90 is one of my favorite MS. Had Bandai not shown off a prototype at all, I probably wouldn't be complaining nearly as much about it. The Refined Barzam (and until recently the Zetaplus A1 and GM Sniper Custom White Dingo) were some of the other MS I wanted kits of but didn't complain as much because they were never hinted at as being remotely considered by Bandai for kits.

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

the biggest cost of modelmaking is neither prototype nor plastic

It's the mold

- It's definitely a big cost, but I wouldn't say it's the biggest cost. If the mold is being used over and beyond it's intended purpose, then it's not as big a cost. This is why there are so many variants of Zaku or GM that use (mostly) common parts, such as:
- MG Ver Ka Gundam, MG GM Type C
- HGUC GM Type C, GM Striker, Powered GM
- GM Blue Destiny 1, Blue Destiny 2, Blue Destiny 3, Ground Combat Gundam

They basically use an already existing mold for the parts and just modify additional ones. So essentially, the mold has already paid for itself (because of the sales of the original kit it was used on were good or better), and it's actually an asset because it's being used for other kits and shortening development and manufacture time. Likewise, they could also be using the same old mold because they want to recoup losses from the original---why else would they need to introduce the GP02 MLRS variant? :/

Also, have you thought of how the hobby magazines manage to get their add-on parts kits out so (relatively) quickly? Obviously they had Bandai assistance to get relatively good quality parts (if the magazine modellers made it themselves, you'd be looking at flash and deformities in the plastic, or else they would use more expensive resincast parts instead). Also it's a limited run, possibly less than a thousand. But I think that the cost for making a mold for a small number of add-on parts kits (like the XN Raiser parts, or the AGE Razor and Artemis parts) should be sufficiently low enough to make it practical.

Hell we never get Blast Impulse.

...but nobody likes Blast Impulse.

There's a 1/144 no-grade kit which will fit on an HG Force/Sword Impulse, which means you could probably just do that.

[Blazer-X]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

...but nobody likes Blast Impulse. :P

I do!

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

I do!

- I prefer Sword Impulse. I just don't feel that Bl;ast Impulse looks 'right'. The black color is cool, but I would have designed the cannon/missile combo differently.

Oddly enough I thought that Bandai released a 1/100 Blast Impulse kit, but for some strange reason I can't see pics of it anywhere online. Which is strange because I know it was being sold in stores, or else someone mentioned he was going to mod his MG Force Impulse into one.

You know, I just had a horrible thought:

What if, just to make the HGBF 1/144 Mock feel more "true" to the "bootleg" feel, Bandai decides to use cheap quality plastic and polycaps?