2014-02-04, 19:59 | Link #33901 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
The issue with Erika-as-Yasu is that Erika and Kanon definitely inhabit two different bodies. The idea that she represents the cynical side of Yasu makes sense though, she does seem like an anti-fantasy version of Beatrice in a lot of ways (for instance, her attempt to enslave Battler in Dawn kindof mirrors Beatrice's actions in Turn).
The problem with the Rosa=Beatrice theory is that it really doesn't work in any episode that is not Banquet and maaaybe Turn. If I had to pick a dark horse culprit it would be Jessica, by the way, you could probably explain Yasu as a proxy for her more easily. |
2014-02-05, 02:37 | Link #33902 | ||
The True Culprit
|
Quote:
Especially since Bern and Lambda are blatantly changing the rules. Quote:
Jessitrice was pretty elegant before Chiru came out, yea. Jessica has almost all the privileges Yasu does.
__________________
|
||
2014-02-05, 17:05 | Link #33903 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
The next Episode starts with Erika being all creepy and marrying Battler, making him mute and forcing him to unveil the truth that he is trying to keep hidden. If we see Erika/Bern/Featherine as a collective identity of not only "the meciless Witch Hunters" but "THE most merciless Witch Hunter"=Hachijo Ikuko...couldn't this create an interesting picture? We know that Ikuko is kinda creepy in her way of keeping Tohya all to herself but, like jiblue already said, without him she would have likely been left to obscurity. For 3 novels he has been her source and also a very informative source for her obsession with Rokkenjima...and then suddenly, after End is finished, he's like, "Nope, I'm gonna stop giving you any info like we used to and do it like THIS now". This would also explain on a realistic level why Ikuko would invite Ange NOW and make her read Dawn, because maybe she can give it a perspective that Ikuko is missing. Then, at the end of EP6 she is sending Bern, who's her miko, which could also be seen as any fan, fellow Witch Hunter or understudy that Ikuko ever had, out to draw the guts out of the game. So maybe EP7 is actually Ikuko gathering up information in order to get that last bit of confirmation that Tohya is suddenly denying her. This could also explain her behavior in EP8 and her sudden change of heart once she sees Ange's resolve. She was like "I'm gonna reveal all this now!!" but then she reconsidered. The only thing I'd be not that sure about is whether Ikuko didn't read Eva's diary/know about the whole story and actually needed to find it out herself during EP6 and 7, or if she read it/knew everything and just wanted proper proof to unveil it because she disagreed with Tohya/Battler's opinion on the matter. |
|
2014-02-05, 17:26 | Link #33904 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
Undoubtely that prank was creepy, and Kyrie planning Asumu's murder sounds quite creepy as well but I fear nothing in my mind can top this: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... so I don't know. Maybe the 'evil Ikuko' existed not as Ikuko herself but in Tohya/Battler's fears. After all he suspected she was the one who hit him with her car, he might have suspected she figured who he was and was keeping him in the dark, might have felt pressured by her to reveal what he knew/remembered and might have grown the idea Ikuko was an evil person (the Battler inside him might also perceive Ikuko as the one who was keeping him trapped in Tohya's body for her own pleasure), ence reflecting his belief in Featherine (who's visually like her), Bern (her cat/miko) and Erika (Bern's double and likely added in the story by Ikuko as replacement for detective Battler). Last edited by jjblue1; 2014-02-05 at 17:40. |
|||||
2014-02-06, 11:49 | Link #33905 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
We could even go further and say that Annie Wilkes has both in herself. She DOES love Paul and his work in her very own, very obsessed kinda way...had he done what she asked she might have never harmed him in any way. Thinking about it now, we only have a claim of how he ended up in the wheelchair. And if we were mean, we could even say that it could exactly be why he didn't go public. She might have threatened him, exposing his secrets, claiming he killed his family, handing him over to the police. It's not something that the story implies, but creepy Ikuko is way in the realm of possibilities. |
|
2014-02-06, 13:12 | Link #33906 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
I don't know, even if Ikuko has some creepy elements (among which 'oh, I've just found an amnesiac man, let's bribe a doctor to keep this hidden and make him my personal pet...') somehow this seems to be too over the top... |
|
2014-02-06, 19:36 | Link #33908 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
I agree she has the potential to be Annie Wilkes and I've been thinking this by ages and I think Ryukishi played on this. But if that's the truth she's just a randomly mad character. Of course it could be argued that actually Erika's failed love story is hers and that's what drove her to insanity so she grabbed the first man she could find (which would also mean either the background given for Furudo Erika was false or they shared a similar past) but still... I don't know, I think Ikuko needed better development and I so hope the manga will fix that one way or another because her actions were... odd to say the least. |
|
2014-02-06, 19:55 | Link #33909 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
|
Ikuko: "Tohya, why, why, WHY? Why did you have to kill off my favorite character Maria? Maybe I should poison you as YOU poisened her?"
Tohya: "Uhhm... I.... no wait! Yea... actually Maria didn't die by poison! Actually she was stung by a special type of bees that just brings you into a comatose state! She lost a lot of her body, including her jaw because of the explosion though, but later on she got a new Cyborg body and lives happily ever after, how is that?" Ikuko: "Yeeeeees! Maria is alive! MARIA LIIIIIIIVES!"
__________________
|
2014-02-06, 20:51 | Link #33910 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
|
Sorry GreyZone, but it's useless, it's all useless. I can easily crush your little theory. In fact I can state it in red:
"Maria definitely can't have been stung by a bee, or received a new body, or even died in an explosion" Why not suffer for all eternity in a pot of scalding tea while you think about that one. ahaha.wav On another topic, it is quite interesting how marriage is painted for Battler and Erika vs for Shannon and George. Guess it isn't all it's cracked up to be when you're marrying the wrong person, is it Yasu? As for Haguruma's comment, since we know that Ange disappeared shortly after the death of Eva, Ikuko probably couldn't have ever gauged her reaction to releasing the book really. It was either pure speculation/empathy on her part thinking about what Ange may have wanted, or she would have somehow had to try and do it before the Ange's gold-medal dive. Now, having read the majority of these pages, I've never seen any sort of Jessitrice theory on here before! How do you get around EP 2? |
2014-02-06, 21:49 | Link #33911 | |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
|
Quote:
Heh, try all you can, but it is impossible for you destroy the Ikuko = Annie Wilkes theory!
__________________
|
|
2014-02-06, 21:57 | Link #33912 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
What's the problem with episode 2? Jessica's death in Turn could very easily be fake, it's never declared in red and she doesn't have any graphically described injuries. If we assume a Shkannon or Shannon/Kanon accomplice I think the rest is easy to explain.
Episode 1 is more problematic, in that she has a basically unbreakable alibi for every murder after the first twilight. |
2014-02-07, 02:51 | Link #33913 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
|
Quote:
I can state with certainty that my claim is the absolute truth, supported with facts witnessed by a human being with his own two eyes. I'll say it more simply: In the story you are proposing, it would never appear that Maria died in an explosion..... Though admittedly my riddle is a little obtuse, and I wouldn't be surprised if people can't quite figure out why I can make that claim in red. |
|
2014-02-08, 12:22 | Link #33915 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
I will now present two blue theories to supplement my red claim. It's never confirmed in red that Maria died by poisoning. The scene in question, Battler found Maria by the parlor(while he was the last remaining survivor in the 4th game). Even though Battler examined the body, he's no doctor, he's not using the detective's authority. It's Battler's naive deductions and can't be elevated to the level of red truth. What we do know, was that Maria seemed "peaceful" in her "death". She wasn't really dead(and this isn't the fake death drug) but rather, natural sleeping pills. The culprit drugged Maria and either she fell comatose or she's deeply asleep. If she fell comatose, she's still technically "alive" even if she's brain dead.(That's why Battler survives, even through Tohya). If she's merely asleep, obviously she's alive. She's alive up until the bomb goes off. I will defend my reds with Knox's 9th: It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard. |
|
2014-02-08, 15:34 | Link #33916 | |||||
The True Culprit
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||||
2014-02-08, 18:10 | Link #33917 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
According to Ange's testimony in the 8th game, not so much of a corpse was remaining. It's therefore logical to argue that this argument is rendered mute, since there's no corpse to actually examine. Quote:
No, seriously. Battler never declares or even remotely uses the detective authority granted to him. We(and you) just ASSUMES that he uses the authority. But it's pretty clear when Bernkastel constantly mocks Battler over and over. It's why she created Furudo Erika in the first place. I mean heck, we get an example of Battler's flaws as a detective in the very first game. Will points it out in Yasu's Confession, since Battler never actually examined Shannon, she was able to get away with planting a false corpse. Quote:
Even if you grant him detective's authority, that doesn't enable him to autopsy corpses. That's why Nanjo's there right? Quote:
Neither her death, or cause of reasoning was declared in red. Leaving us able to speculate. And all evidence points highly to her being comatose or drugged to sleep, dying "peacefully" when the bomb goes off. Quote:
|
|||||
2014-02-08, 18:38 | Link #33918 | |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
|
Quote:
"Innocent people can give incorrect facts, not because they lie, but because they missinterpret what they saw" It does definitly NOT refer to the reader, because that would make no sense at all.
__________________
|
|
2014-02-08, 18:52 | Link #33919 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
|
Quote:
|
|
2014-02-08, 20:39 | Link #33920 |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
|
Maria's deaths:
1: BOOM 2: BOOM 3: strangled 4: poison 5: died by unknown means 6: head severed 7: shot (Tea Party) [I am not sure about this one, so correct me if I am wrong] 8: shot (Bern's game) Actually I think it IS entirely possible that Maria just "played dead" in both EP3 and EP4 and died by BOOM later on, but I doubt it. Chiru however, in contrast, makes it a point that she died before the BOOM. So in the end all we get is: In the message bottles Yasu does not kill Maria by any means other than BOOM. There is nothing that really tells us if she actually was comatose or not, but I also think that it is completely irrelevant because she definitly died on Rokkenjima. She couldn't be persecuted anyway because she would be considered "not being able to gauge the consequences of her actions" and would need to be manipulated into it as well, as I don't see her doing anything too extreme by her own, i.e. we know either way that she was definitly a "victim" in some way.
__________________
|
|
|