Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by selkirk

There's a lot of Caro and Erio in Ch8 and 9 of the manga.

IN THE SHOW?Certainly if vivio did not exist,maybe a small development for erio would suffice.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Adr 00

IN THE SHOW?Certainly if vivio did not exist,maybe a small development for erio would suffice.

Refer to my previous post.

A 'small' development is NOT enough.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Hello? Weren't you agreeing to what Ultima_Rasengan05 had said about Caro having dangerous powers as well as Erio's Project F connection? Where's the follow up development to those?

And then what about their relationship with Lutecia? They were obviously made to go up against her, but where's the interaction before now?

And don't get me started about their combat spells...

Also, what makes you think that Subaru and Teana has so much to develop?

Hmm on second look it may not be enough,SINCE first of all i wondered how caro somehow managed to just be able to control voltaie.Highly doubt erio involved in that matter though.

And Yes,the very thing i have been frowning upon.Erio/Project F.ZERO development.

ps. i didt see you post for some reason

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Adr 00

Hmm on second look it may not be enough,SINCE first of all i wondered how caro somehow managed to just be able to control voltaie.Highly doubt erio as involved in that matter though.

Doubt? There's no reason at all to believe that Erio is involved with her powers.

Originally Posted by Adr 00

And Yes,the very thing i have been frowning upon.Erio/Project F.ZERO development.

Which is not something a 'small' development could fix.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Doubt? There's no reason at all to believe that Erio is involved with her powers.



Which is not something a 'small' development could fix.

Not to emo if there is a ulgy and scary truth to erio. and the EMO time reaction between him and caro.

[Nightling]

which web site i can see this anime?

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Hello? Weren't you agreeing to what Ultima_Rasengan05 had said about Caro having dangerous powers as well as Erio's Project F connection? Where's the follow up development to those?

And then what about their relationship with Lutecia? They were obviously made to go up against her, but where's the interaction before now?

And don't get me started about their combat spells...

Also, what makes you think that Subaru and Teana has so much to develop?

I agree that like many others, anyone creative can do alot with Erio and Carol's settings. Which were, like the forementioned many others (including Vivio), conveniently ignored.

The same goes with Subaru and Tiana. True, we know a bit more about them than the rest, but still there's room for inspired writing. Take Subaru for instance. She and Gin-nee were found by Quint in a raid and subseqeuntly adopted. We know these, but firstly who created them? Jail? Regius? Or some other joker that likes to play with life? Were they experimental prototypes, or part of a batch of tested and proven SKTJ? If the latter, what happened to their "siblings"? Did Quint and her colleagues kill them? Or were they sent to GC for "safe-keeping"? If they were killed (as children), does the Nakajima sisters know about this?

Etc, etc. Why, with the idea of Quint's team murdering the young STKJ, one can actually have the chance to create a survivor of the massacre, who grows up under someone's "tender, loving care" and sorts, eventually hunting down and killing the people involved in the act. Again, etc, etc, the ideas (not all good ones though ) just keep coming.

[serenade_beta]

More predictable action tomorrow... yeah...

I hope the writers/etc. didn't make Sein just lose like that. I mean...
*Punch* *the end?!*

Spoiler for Guess on what will happen:

Not complaining or being sarcastic.

Good guys-losing
Bad guys-winning
Good guys-Super power boost (some sarcasm here...)
Bad guys-defeated... (Gee... who would have thought)
Nanoha-Reaches Vivio
Quattro-Does what she likes doing (can't predict what she will do)
Episode end...

(It'd be funny if Vice showed up. It's illogical, but, hey, there were illogical things going on since last episode)

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Perhaps, I don't know Hayate that well. All A's taught me so far is she's ambitious and idealistic former lonely cripple.

Maybe I've been getting the wrong impression but Hayate has always seemed conscientious and intent on improving her skills up until at least midway through Strikers. The A's to Strikers comics seem to reinforce a sense that she's both an able leader and teacher. Superior knowledge and experience, moral excellence, self-discipline and courage are all traits she's demonstrated that she possesses in A's, Strikers and the comics. She is willing to accept a high degree of responsibility but trusts her subordinates. There's no real reason in-universe reason she couldn't have been a great commander.

Now they're implying the exact opposite in the Strikers mangas pretty much retconning everything up to that point. She has no interest in mitigating any of her shortcomings. She has no interest or capability to lead from the front. Ambition has been replaced with apathy.

You can criticize her aptitude as military commander, but so far I see no signs of character butchering.

You can call it whatever you want but her treatment since the mid-way point of Strikers has been apathetic at best. They can't seem to write well for her so they're content with just writing her out.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Mirificus

Maybe I've been getting the wrong impression but Hayate has always seemed conscientious and intent on improving her skills up until at least midway through Strikers. The A's to Strikers comics seem to reinforce a sense that she's both an able leader and teacher. Superior knowledge and experience, moral excellence, self-discipline and courage are all traits she's demonstrated that she possesses in A's, Strikers and the comics. She is willing to accept a high degree of responsibility but trusts her subordinates. There's no real reason in-universe reason she couldn't have been a great commander.

Teacher? Where did you get that? In fact, in the comics Hayate left all the 'teaching' that was done pretty much up to Nanoha.

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Teacher? Where did you get that? In fact, in the comics Hayate left all the 'teaching' that was done pretty much up to Nanoha.

They did the AMF teaching in concert. Fate and Hayate played just as much of a role as Nanoha there. Each of them were explaining parts of counter-AMF theory while Nanoha and Fate did the demonstrations. After Rein had heard everything, Hayate had her figure out which of her spells would work on the AMF-drones that were escaping and then let her take appropriate action.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Mirificus

They did the AMF teaching in concert. Fate and Hayate played just as much of a role as Nanoha there. Each of them were explaining parts of counter-AMF theory. After Rein had heard everything, Hayate had her figure out which spell would work on the AMF-drones that were escaping and then let her take appropriate action.

Er... if you want to get that technical, nanoha did about 95% of the explanation, with Hayate and Fate giving side comments, well, once. Also, it was Nanoha, not hayate, who told Rein to learn the circumstances and solutions to this problem. Hayate even thanked her for taking care of Rein.

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Er... if you want to get that technical, nanoha did about 95% of the explanation, with Hayate and Fate giving side comments, well, once. Also, it was Nanoha, not hayate, who told Rein to learn the circumstances and solutions to this problem.

Most of what Nanoha explained was combat philosophy. Fate didn't really say anything actually. Hayate explained the key way of getting around AMFs. She's also the one who told Rein to try her own spells out which was a perfect way of summarizing the lesson.

Originally Posted by A's to Strikers

Nanoha: What she means, is that in a fight, saying "here I'm completely invincible!," is like something from a book. The truth is that almost never happens. No matter how strong your opponent is, or how powerful their attacks and defences are, there's always a way. Absolutely everything has a weakness.

Hayate: If your magic won't work, then you'll have to use something physical that will "break through".

Nanoha: For example, rocks. Stardust...!

Fate: Thunder...!

Nanoha: Or lightning, as another example.

Rein: That was amazing.

Hayate: That's why those two are first class aces.

Rein: Ah, some machines are getting away.

Nanoha: Should we go after them?

Hayate: Don't worry, we can get them from here. Rein can you do the honors?

...

Nanoha: Well done!

Rein: Thank you very much!

Hayate even thanked her for taking care of Rein.

Which is the polite thing to do.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Mirificus

Most of what Nanoha explained was combat philosophy. Fate didn't really say anything actually. Hayate explained the key way of getting around AMFs. She's also the one who told Rein to try her own spells out which was a perfect way of summarizing the lesson.

*blink* wait, you were talking about chapter 1? That was hardly teaching at all! Anyone can give a simple explanation. I was talking about chapter 2.

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*blink* wait, you were talking about chapter 1? That was hardly teaching at all! Anyone can give a simple explanation. I was talking about chapter 2.

How is getting Rein to use her spells during combat to demonstrate and reinforce what she's learned not an example of good teaching?

The point isn't how much teaching any of them did. It was whether Hayate did any teaching that prompted your original question and she certainly did.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Mirificus

How is getting Rein to use her spells during combat to demonstrate and reinforce what she's learned not an example of good teaching?

The point isn't how much teaching any of them did. It was whether Hayate did any teaching that prompted your original question and she certainly did.

Well, true, but the way you brought it was as if she was actually a teacher. Being able to teach someone a simple thing does not make you a teacher.

[Mirificus]

Food for thought. We've been repeatedly told that Nanoha is a great instructor yet incidents like these keep on popping up after months of intensive training.

Originally Posted by Mirificus

...after Lutecia shot Caro and Erio into a wall. Right after that, Subaru left herself completely open when she asked Lutecia to put down the relic case even though Lutecia had already clearly demonstrated that she was hostile. Not surprisingly, Subaru ended up being shot too.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

To even think that it would work is stupidity itself.

I can accept it if it's a regular skirmish with little loss possibilities and all that, but seriously, they need to think of the situation they're in.

While they're wasting time, Teana's under heavy fire, Subaru's getting her ass kicked, Ground grunts are getting royally owned left and right, and Mid-childa is under a gigantic timebomb named Cradle.

This isn't Jewel Seed or some no-name Non-Managed World suffering threat of destruction. We're talking a central part of TSAB, arguably the Capital World of Interdimensional Worlds suffering the threat of being obliterated in less than 2 hours.

Not letting your guard down when hostiles are in range is and making sure you support the members of your unit are extremely simple concepts yet Nanoha hasn't been able to convey them to her trainees. Does this mean that Nanoha is a poor instructor?

Originally Posted by Keroko

Well, true, but the way you brought it was as if she was actually a teacher. Being able to teach someone a simple thing does not make you a teacher.

Back to Hayate now. Teaching during combat is hardly a simple exercise. Nanoha could have suggested that Rein try using her spells against the AMF drones but she didn't. Rather, it was Hayate. To have skipped over that would have been to miss the most valuable part of the experience for Rein.

Even if Hayate isn't an instructor by trade, she did a good job of teaching when it was called for.

[rtwesen]

Originally Posted by Mirificus

Most of what Nanoha explained was combat philosophy. Fate didn't really say anything actually. Hayate explained the key way of getting around AMFs. She's also the one who told Rein to try her own spells out which was a perfect way of summarizing the lesson.

you're giving hayate so much credit for saying one line -_-. Nanoha was obviously gonna say what hayate did in bold if hayate didn't butt in . Also, the very idea of using physical attacks; it doesn't take a genius to work out that anti-magic fields block magic and not physical attacks >_>

i can't see how hayate was depicted as a teacher.

And the forwards are called trainees for a reason. You can't blame the teacher for her students' inability to apply what they've been taught...and they're still learning

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by rtwesen

you're giving hayate so much credit for saying one line -_-. Nanoha was obviously gonna say what hayate did in bold if hayate didn't butt in . Also, the very idea of using physical attacks; it doesn't take a genius to work out that anti-magic fields block magic and not physical attacks >_>

But in the end, Hayate said it. As you said, it was a simple lesson. Probably any one of the three could have done it all.

i can't see how hayate was depicted as a teacher.

And the forwards are called trainees for a reason. You can't blame the teacher for her students' inability to apply what they've been taught...and they're still learning

How else to evaluate a teacher's ability, but by the students they come up with. Especially since they hand-picked these people - they weren't consignments like what most teachers get.

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by rtwesen

you're giving hayate so much credit for saying one line -_-. Nanoha was obviously gonna say what hayate did in bold if hayate didn't butt in . Also, the very idea of using physical attacks; it doesn't take a genius to work out that anti-magic fields block magic and not physical attacks >_>

I bolded two lines and I've discussed both. The second line is the more important line. Nanoha did have a chance to prompt Rein when the drones were escaping yet she didn't and it wasn't because Hayate interrupted. Rather, it was Nanoha asked if they should go after the drones and Hayate's response was to let Rein figure out which spell to cast which is the right answer if Hayate wanted Rein to learn as much as she could from the experience.

i can't see how hayate was depicted as a teacher.

Yet teaching is exactly what Hayate was doing there by getting Rein to demonstrate how well she's learned the concepts they had just gone over. Hayate hasn't been shown to have a lot of opportunities to teach but when she was shown to have one, she made the appropriate choice of testing Rein there. It doesn't mean she's a great teacher but it does show that she's at least competent at teaching. If they wrote her there as they are now Strikers, she wouldn't have said anything at all there.

And the forwards are called trainees for a reason. You can't blame the teacher for her students' inability to apply what they've been taught...and they're still learning

Remember, Nanoha has had problems teaching Teana as well. That's three out of four. That's she's the commander of Stars squad hardly makes matters look any better. There's a truism that, "there are no bad regiments, only bad colonels." That's certainly accurate for RF6 as a whole. Is it true for Stars squad?

What about my other impressions of Hayate? As demonstrated in Strikers, she could hardly be any more apathetic and negligent as a commander. Before that though, I would say that she did have the ability and potential to have been a good commander before the writers started writing themselves into a corner.