um..what's Loli??

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Enron

Thany you belong in jail

Too bad, it isn't illegal in my country (and it isn't illegal in USA either BTW).

[Enron]

13 year olds are not illegal in your country? Where do you live? Thailand?

They aren't illegal in the US either?

Hm.....well, if THATS the case...............................

[Shouta]

Originally Posted by Thany

Too bad, it isn't illegal in my country (and it isn't illegal in USA either BTW).

Pedophilia is illegal in the United States.

[Target]

Originally Posted by Shouta

Pedophilia is illegal in the United States.

I think he's refering to the fact that since loli games don't depict real females they fall under the category of "art" and therefore they are not illegal since they are protected as art.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Enron

13 year olds are not illegal in your country? Where do you live? Thailand?

They aren't illegal in the US either?

Hm.....well, if THATS the case...............................

Animes aren't porn, so it isn't illegal. If you don't like it, go to Mexico or Germany, I think it's illegal there.

Originally Posted by Shouta-kun

Pedophilia is illegal in the United States.

I don't remember saying I had attracting to real underage girls, but whatever, I'll just ignore you from now

For some reason, at work, little boys talk to me O.O They say "hi" and won't stop until I say "hi" and smile at them.

Children in their younger age (well I remember it was the case for me) usually like to say hello to everybody even if they don't know them ; not sure why, but I know it's a fact.

I meant in general being into that type of erotica will make you seem dangerous. I wasn't too clear about that.

Maybe, but you're not going to be anymore dangerous than someone who would be looking at something violent like Elfen Lied because of the gore there (note: I have nothing against Elfen Lied).

Originally Posted by Target

I think he's refering to the fact that since loli games don't depict real females they fall under the category of "art" and therefore they are not illegal since they are protected as art.

Here's exactly what I meant

Edit: reported you Spyre

[Kanna]

Spyre is teh mansecks.

And dammit, I just proved myself wrong about the hgames part.

http://premium.uploadit.org/soujiro/ohnoes.jpg

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Kanna

Spyre is teh mansecks.

And dammit, I just proved myself wrong about the hgames part.

http://premium.uploadit.org/soujiro/ohnoes.jpg

Ho yeh, I remember those games, I think they say: 'the characters in these games are <insert age here> or younger' ( 10 for おれのなつやすみ, 7 for おれのなつやすみ2, 11 for フレンズ ～Child Flower～ ... )
As a side-note, you missed 美香がんばる ～おしえてエヶチなおべんきょう～ :P
Anyway, if you had looked at one of my previous posts, the girl in my avatar is under 18 :P

[Kanna]

Yeah, I saw.

That drive btw is only 90GB. A lot of old games are already on DVD. But yes, I seem to have missed that during my rampage. Thanks for reminding me! It was one of those games that I remembered seeing but forgot to get.

[Enron]

Originally Posted by Thany

Anyway, if you had looked at one of my previous posts, the girl in my avatar is under 18 :P

Get out! No foolin'?!

[MakubeX2]

Those are doujin H-games which do not abide by the rules of commercialise H-games, if I'm not wrong.

Selling quite cheap too in Japan, less then 3500 yen for each of them.

[Kanna]

Well, Makube, I never specified commercial or doujin titles.

[MakubeX2]

Actually, I suspect that there arn't any laws in Japan which deals with underage charas in a sexual suitations in animations and drawings.

There were talks about an enactment of such a law which forbid protrayal of any characters under 18 in sexual suitations and nudity in manga/anime/games few years back, but I think discussions have fallen through. It's all perfectly legal, see ? : p

Sucks that those commercial publisher are still regulating themselves when it comes to age of characters.

[Enron]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Sucks that those commercial publisher are still regulating themselves when it comes to age of characters.

Mein Gott.

Wow. Just wow.

Someone somewhere once said that the road to hell was indeed a wide one....this thread seems to illustrate their point quite well

[Shouta]

Target: Got some court rulings for me?

Actually, I suspect that there arn't any laws in Japan which deals with underage charas in a sexual suitations in animations and drawings.

There were talks about an enactment of such a law which forbid protrayal of any characters under 18 in sexual suitations and nudity in manga/anime/games few years back, but I think discussions have fallen through. It's all perfectly legal, see ? : p

Prove that it isn't a law.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Those are doujin H-games which do not abide by the rules of commercialise H-games, if I'm not wrong.

Selling quite cheap too in Japan, less then 3500 yen for each of them.

Actually, the picture I last posted is coming from a commercial game and not a doujin H-game.
Just have a look there.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by Hayami

For me anime is not depiction of anything in real world.
I don't like this world, i watch anime to escape it,
anime is entirely other world for me,
i wouldn't even call anything "anime", if i would see it as depiction of anything.
Another reason why i would never call anime "depiction" is
that in some way anime is even more real,
because it deserves to be alive more than this world, since it's beautiful.
I don't care if real people create anime, may be they just uncover
a world that already exists somewhere...

And cute/moe/loli anime is just the most beautiful world.

This kind of thinking truly asserts that anime is an escapist form of entertainment. The question is, what is it exactly that you are escaping from? Why find solace in the imagined world of a loli-esque anime land?

I guess my point here is that I find it quite puzzling that in discussions such as this, why the "it's not real, just fiction" argument has always been thrown back and forth. It's indeed valid--as in, people do get fascinated by their wild imagination such as incest ero stuff (father/daughter, mother/son, whatever), indulging in anarchy or violence and what not--and it's also true that such fascinations do not automatically mean that whoever is looking at it is one sick fuck. But to say that it's purely fictional without any bearing at all in this real world of ours, is rather a bit too much.

These images mean something, do they not? Meanings which are understood, appreciated, regulated and produced in this world. I mean, why do you think lolicons find loli material attracting in the first place? Because they're cute and pretty? Sure, but the fact that something is pretty to someone in the first place does connote something about one's sense of what can be accepted as pretty. (or sexually arousing depending on what you prefer.. And when I say that, I'm not labelling anyone as a pedophile. Sheesh.)

Even better--why do you think non-lolicons find loli characters in sexual situations so offensive? I mean, why is there such a thing called censorship in the first place? Because we think it's fun? Hey, it's a just a work of imagination right?

See what I mean?

To sum it up--to imply that there's a total and perfect gap between the fictional and the real is something I don't agree with. In fact, sometimes I regard this "it's fiction" reasoning as an excuse. But perhaps they're right. It's just fiction; there's really nothing underneath all these depictions of cute girls--in innocent scenarios or otherwise. Or is there?

In my opinion, I think the main selling of loli characters is that they tend to imply a vertical relationship between the viewer and the character in as much as they are made to be cute for its audience. Something has to be said about lolis in adult scenarios though. However, I've already given my share of criticism with regard to this loli phenomenon way back, so I'm ending my babble right here.

Just my two cents. And yes, apparently I think too much sometimes.

[DaFool]

Heh, such a fast-moving thread.

young-looking anime girls mirror young-looking asian women, specifically, young-looking flat-chested asian women who look half or a third their age and are lusted after by westerners with asian fetishes.

now, as an asian, i think i have the right to lust after mine own kind. The problem is in reality i find myself lusting over some full-grown western woman with full-grown bon-bons. gah.

[Hayami]

Originally Posted by kujoe

To sum it up--to imply that there's a total and perfect gap between the fictional and the real is something I don't agree with.

How perfect the gap between reality and an imaginary world is depends on person.
Everyone should be free to define where his/her own line lies,
how much is "too much" before the fantasy could begin to affect the reality negatively.
I believe that anyone who hurts other people would do it in some way
no matter what affected him/her. If a person lacks pride,dignity,compassion,
he/she will fall even living in paradise ( or only reading religious books ).
People who are truely human will not hurt others,
especially if they not forced to anything but just playing with their fantasy.

It's a fact, that there are not more acts of crime against children in Japan, than in average countries
where lolicon is either less accepted or illegal ( or on the edge of legality ).

I know some people, who are into lolicon, but at the same time
think that children ( in real world ) are not cute, but rather the opposite.
I don't think they had any reason to lie so much.

People who like lolicon are very different.
Some/many of them are quite happy in this world, not like me...

Your argument about censorship... in many countries inclusive USA lolicon is perfectly legal.
But even it it would not be -
who knows, may be in the future people will look back at our time
just like we look back at times, when "witches" and "heretics" were burnt at the stake.

If you mean just, that some people even on animesuki ( quite a liberal board ) hate lolicon -
i'm not sure, but they might feel, that they could not resist the sediction in similar case,
and so they can't believe other people can.
Or they would be just too disgusted with it, because they would have
to project their fantasy into reality, and they can't imagine that other people can live in fantasy,
be it for a little while or forever.
Or they just don't want to think that other people can, because it would let them feel primitive,
not being able to live in 2 parallel dimensions, observe both,
manipulate where these dimensions cross and where not.
Some of them might be traumatized by some tragic event in their live,
or in life of their friends or members of their family.
Some of them grew up in relogious family or were educated so.

But this all is NO EXCUSE for attacking anyone, who likes lolicon!

Originally Posted by DaFool

now, as an asian, i think i have the right to lust after mine own kind.

I hope you don't mean that i, as not asian, don't have this right?
May be i was asian in my previos life!
( j/k , actually it should not not matter at all... )

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by Hayami

How perfect the gap between reality and an imaginary world is depends on person.
Everyone should be free to define where his/her own line lies,
how much is "too much" before the fantasy could begin to affect the reality negatively.

. . . . . .

I think you misunderstand. This is probably my fault for not being totally clear.

The stuff I've said regarding the absence of a perfect gap between the fictional and the real wasn't meant to be treated as direct proof that loli-related material can affect an individual negatively in a psychological way--or that it could harm reality as you put it, by influencing individuals to actually go out and indulge in their loli fantasies. (I can quote myself, if you want.)

I'm just saying that this gap is an imagined one. The gap isn't really there. In other words, there exists a relationship between fiction and real life--a real relationship, unlike this imagined separation between reality and fiction--precisely because the fictions we produce and consume are affected by where we live and what times we live in. (Hence, why I mentioned censorship. I didn't mention this as further proof that loli is evil. I mean for crying out loud, if Azumanga Daioh were a religion, I probably would've converted to it by now.)

Similar to what you've said, this relationship depends on the person. (From what you've said, I gather that you view this relationship as close to nothing--as in, a separation between the imaginary and the real that is close to being absolute.)

That's all.

If you consider that as an attack on anything related to loli, or in lolicons in general, then you're free to do so if that pleases you. I was just reacting to this "it's just a work of fiction" reasoning--which can indeed sound like an excuse to those who can only view loli as nothing more but a perverse fetish. I'm not one of them, just in case you didn't get that. With regard to what I've said earlier, I was merely criticising this loli craze as a phenomenon.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

The same thing can actually be said about shota or the so-called "oneesan" theme. (I have no idea what it's called.)

If my comments sounded harsh or offensive to you, then I'm sorry. That's how blunt I can be sometimes.

[dreamless]

anything can affect a person negatively, there's nothing safe, unless you close yourself up and don't watch TV, don't play game, don't talk to people, don't interact with anything, else you always have the possibility of getting affected neagtively.

Originally Posted by Shouta

Pedophilia is illegal in the United States.

somehow I think it sounds really funny and ironical when coming from someone called Shouta