World Of Warcraft Discussion Thread

[RWBladewing]

Originally Posted by Zenemis

Ugh, but it's only been 2 weeks. If it was a few months in and a lot of guilds were struggling, then fair enough... but it's just silly this way.

But little Jimmy needs to be able down those scary bosses so he can feel good about himself and add a gold star to his drool cup. And his mommy pays the same amount as you for him to play the game so he should be able to see everything you do without earning it.

If it wasn't obvious I agree completely with you but sadly you won't find much other support here. Ulduar was perfectly tuned difficulty-wise at release except for maybe Ignis. I'm just glad I got to experience and clear all of it before these retarded nerfs hit. We did the new Razorscale yesterday and it felt just like another Naxx encounter, there were never more than 3 adds up at once (on 25 man!) and we just zerged them down. And why even nerf Razorscale? She's a completely optional boss that isn't blocking a single inch of content in the instance and was already easy for a competent guild. "Seeing the content" is just a BS excuse for people wanting easy bosses and free epics.

All those hours and days of wipes on Mimiron and Yogg were frustrating but I stuck with it because overcoming challenges is what raiding is supposed to be about. I'm gonna laugh when they nerf both of those bosses to easymode too. Pathetic.

[Last Sinner]

*shrug*

Hopefully Hard Mode encounters are properly tuned and have the loot incentives to reward the effort put in.

[RWBladewing]

From what I've seen, yes, they're hard, very hard in fact (Raid leader decided to leave the ground tremor add up for our first Freya hardmode attempt, yeah that went well). My own distaste for artifical "difficulty settings" aside though, that still isn't the answer to the problem. Blizzard caved in to the whiners agan and they're now balancing to extremes which pretty much screws middle of the road and casual (read: not bad) guilds over. Normal mode is heading toward Naxx-level easy and hard mode will provide a challenge for guilds like mine, but the people who aren't super hardcore but still want a challenge get basically nothing.

The first week Ulduar came out, I actually enjoyed reading the Dungeons and Raids forum because it was filled with posts asking about strategy and people saying they were struggling but loved the challenge and the feeling of finally downing the boss. Now it's loaded with threads by those same people asking "why are you nerfing this?" and threads from idiotic terribles laughing and having the nerve to call others elitist, despite the fact that their "I'm proud to be bad, screw you if you want a challenge" and "I have a life and am so much better than people who actually try at a game" attitudes are far more elitist.

Going to be seeing the same full tier 7 terribles decked out in Ulduar gear very soon if this trend keeps up.

[Last Sinner]

It is an inevitability, Mr. Anderson. The sound of a scrub wearing your gear.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Oh wow, at the complete list of the changes to Ulduar. Sooo many nerfs to easy mode. I didn't realise it was so many. Its disappointing that its getting nerfed, I liked the difficulty of the instance. However I do know why they are doing it, and you did hit the nail on the head there I think RWB with the difficulty range probably being too vast for those quasi-casual guilds that like the real hard stuff but just don't have the time.

lol @ Algalon buffs! Feed my frand, feed until your thirst is quenched!

I think it'll be a while yet though before we see 'scrubs' rockin T8 like it was picked up from the local Op-Shop.

To be honest, I don't know why this is, but changes to bosses I don't mind so much since I can usually see the reason Blizzard does it - I see it with an odd mix of amusement and disappointment mostly. I just do. not. want. trash to be just aoe'd down like Naxx, that gets old fast. I really liked the complexity and co-ordination needed for trash like the stuff before Vezax. I find that once the trash is being aoe'd down the mystic of the instance is gone, and its nothing more then a pointless 'grind'.

Haven't read the thread but I think the OP here sums it up nicely, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...74156648&sid=1

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Oh wow, at the complete list of the changes to Ulduar. Sooo many nerfs to easy mode. I didn't realise it was so many. Its disappointing that its getting nerfed, I liked the difficulty of the instance. However I do know why they are doing it, and you did hit the nail on the head there I think RWB with the difficulty range probably being too vast for those quasi-casual guilds that like the real hard stuff but just don't have the time.

lol @ Algalon buffs! Feed my frand, feed until your thirst is quenched!

I think it'll be a while yet though before we see 'scrubs' rockin T8 like it was picked up from the local Op-Shop.

To be honest, I don't know why this is, but changes to bosses I don't mind so much since I can usually see the reason Blizzard does it - I see it with an odd mix of amusement and disappointment mostly. I just do. not. want. trash to be just aoe'd down like Naxx, that gets old fast. I really liked the complexity and co-ordination needed for trash like the stuff before Vezax. I find that once the trash is being aoe'd down the mystic of the instance is gone, and its nothing more then a pointless 'grind'.

Haven't read the thread but I think the OP here sums it up nicely, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...74156648&sid=1

wow I'm really glad I haven't reacctivated my account, I think I'll always be able to take my pre nerf muru kills and kj kills as something that even the bads can't diminish, but unfortunatley it seems raiding has become a joke, and these "casuals" have really butchered the pride that I once found in raiding.

[Xacual]

You know a lot of the hard modes in Ulduar are still strong. Blizzard is making normal mode easy enough for people to see the content if they have the time to learn the encounters, the hard modes are for the challenge seekers. I mean you haven't raided in how long? How do you know how much raiding has become a joke if you haven't even completed all of it? It's like people that complained about how easy Naxx25 and stuff were but never tried Sarth+3drakes.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

They increased the difficulty on a few of the hard modes as well, so the challenge will definitely be there for those of us that can afford to do it. I think the argument now is just that the middle range guilds, the ones that find normal to easy but cannot commit to hard modes (for whatever reason) are left with naught to do. But bliz has mentioned the possibility of multiple difficulty settings for instances.

[Last Sinner]

@Clogs - Yep. This has been confirmed. Exact numbers here.

XT-002 Deconstructor: Heartbreak increases damage by 40% and health by 150%. (Was 35% and 45% respectively)

Freya: Brightleaf's Essence - Increases Magic damage done by Freya and her Allies of Nature by 60%. (Was 50%)
Stonebark's Essence - Increases Freya's physical damage by 75%. (Was 50%)

Mimiron: Emergency Mode - Increases damage and health by 30%. (Was 25%)

General Vezax: Profound Darkness (Saronite Animus) - Damage increased to 750. (Was 500)



Well, on an interesting note, Ensidia don't think Hard Mode is a pushover. If anything, one of their head honchos made a very exasperated post on his blog after they spent 15 hours of wiping to down Hodir on Hard Mode. They claimed that although they were the first to beat Hodir on Hard Mode, they felt it was too hard, that their kill only eventuated from luck and going through a ridiculous amount of lineup theories (they tried 8 Mages and 8 Death Knights at one point!). Simply put - Ensidia have made it clear they think that Hodir - Hard Mode definitely needs to be nerfed.

Hmm..even the best are asking for a nerf. Perhaps that means something. That Normal Mode is supposed to be accessible for scrubs and that Hard Mode will remain elite. I doubt scrubs will be able to do the Hard Modes. I have faith in this system. I'm leaving it at that. While I am somewhat suprised that earlier bosses have received nerfs when they didn't seem to need them, I love Ulduar and I'm not going to lessen my opinion simply because scrubs can now do early bosses. Ensidia, Exodus, Vodka and the like have only made the progress they have because they are putting in 16-18 hours a day. People doing more realistic amounts will gradually reach those heights but that will take time. Hard Mode loot at 239 is much better than the 226-232 loot being offered on Normal. I honestly think the balance is right.

Seems Children's Week was bugged for a bit. The round of dailies just before the dailies reset didn't count for Daily Chores, which was admitted to be a bug and was hotixed, but credit couldn't be given. Home Alone was reset if a player logged out, but that has been fixed.

As for the event itself - I actually quite preferred it to Noblegarden. The human boy is amusing enough, but Dornaa the Draenei girl is really fun to escort, knowing that one day she is going to be a very powerful, prominent person. Already done five of the six achievements. I thought School of Hard Knocks would be harder than it turned to be. Only Alterac Valley took me two matches to get a cap against the multitude of people doing it. Arathi Basin was cake to get a cap - seemed most people doing AB wanted a match to be a series of capping then recapping, etc. Eye of the Storm had a fair bit of competition, but I was lucky enough to get my cap and capture while 27 people were fighting at another node. ^^ Warsong Gulch was an amusing one. I spent about 5 minutes with our side's flag in midfield, trying to sucker-punch theirs into coming for me. Which did happen, allowing me to get an easy return. Now it's just going to be patiently doing the same daily four more times in a row. Yeah, it may be too easy, but this event was quite fun. It beats the heck out of right clicking eggs for hours on end. -_-

What is rather ridiculous, though, is the amounts of some of the things involved with it. AH prices are just stupid. 25g for 3 Mageroyal?! Surely they realise there are vendors in several cities you can periodically buy some for just 70c! (Which is what I did and laughed) 65g for a Delicious Chocolate Cake?! That is just...considering 5 of the 6 mats total up to about 3 silver and the eggs drop very readily from owls in the Night Elf starting area, that's just sad. But people are gullible enough to pay that much. *shrug* Makes me glad I actually got the recipe back in the final days of TBC.

And today I started my 4th Argent Tournament faction grind. Done Gnomeregan, Darnassus and Exodar so far. Now doing Stormwind then finishing with Ironforge. While they get repetitve after a bit, they're easy, good gold, some cute rewards eventually. I do wonder whether anything extra will pop up after all 5 Valiant level factions have been cleared, though.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I'm curious though, how much of their gear is U25 level (or U10 in some cases, since bits here and there are better then Naxx gear). I'm sure most of their gear is still T7, since it's only been 3 weeks. Even though the leap to T8 gear isn't overwhelming I really don't think they (he probably wasn't) or anyone should be complaining about Hard Modes being to hard when they do not have the (best) gear for it. Naxx 25 gear should be sweet for easy mode, maybe some of the easier Hard Modes, but generally I think that you should have to be in nigh full T8 to do the hard modes. Yeah its a lot of gear grinding, but well, personally I think that's the point (as long as it can remain fun).

I started the Childrens week stuff. Did Home Alone then went to the battle-masters and queued for WSG. Once inside I went mid field killed some horde outside the alliance gate... and waited. It quickly became apparent no one was doing squat, no one was attacking or anything but for the odd solo venture. Man I hate WSG /afk'd out and decided to come back with guild on Sunday. Then I logged off to go to bed, which I am doing now. OMG bai.

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

And today I started my 4th Argent Tournament faction grind. Done Gnomeregan, Darnassus and Exodar so far. Now doing Stormwind then finishing with Ironforge. While they get repetitve after a bit, they're easy, good gold, some cute rewards eventually. I do wonder whether anything extra will pop up after all 5 Valiant level factions have been cleared, though.

From what I remember if you get Champion of all 5 cities as well as exulted you get the 'Crusader' title.
Working on my fourth one now, 6 Valiant Marks in.

[Komori]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Hmm..even the best are asking for a nerf. Perhaps that means something.

Sure, it does mean something. It means that Ensidia wants to clear Ulduar hard mode having only gotten about 2 or 3 runs worth of gear from there. I think they shouldn't nerf hard mode just 3 weeks after release because it's not meant to just be a skill check (imo). Until every single person in that raid is decked out in Ulduar 25 man gear or crafted equivalent gear, I don't want to hear them talking about stuff being hard.

To me, it's like complaining that Sunwell is hard when your guild has only cleared BT/Hyjal once or twice.

[Xacual]

Well Hodir is legitimate asking for a nerf. From what I've read about it, it sounds like the fight is close to pre fix Cthun level in that it is impossible unless everyone has best in slot gear and you get really lucky(Well pre fix C'thun was impossible but Hodir is supposedly still doable). Also Ensidia got down hard mode Mimiron which puts them as the first guild to get to try 25man Algalon.

[Last Sinner]

Well, that just means the top guilds have contradicted what they've always claimed. They asked for hard, challenging material. They got it and they're complaining in the 3rd week. Hopefully Algalon is tuned such that no one downs him until July at the earliest.

Hodir Hard Mode had better be doable at some point. My one dream drop is from that.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

It is, it was done on the PTR in Naxx gear with the Uber Shirts (13% stat increase to everything), which incidentally is the gear level jump to T8. They killed him anyway...

I wonder how much of the complaining is because they genuinely think it is to hard, or just because they are scared that someone else might beat them to it getting the 'World First'. I imagine it would be kind of stressful for such guilds to wipe repeatedly when there is a First in the works, especially since the hard mode content is challenging, and the first to clear it gets the most time on Algalon who will be a level playing field for all guilds that reach him rewarding skill over time spent.

[Xacual]

You are forgetting that they buffed hard mode hodir in that first week after Ulduar came out. Having to kill him in 2 minutes 30 seconds is the hard mode now isn't it?
edit: It is apparently less than 2 minutes now...

[Last Sinner]

Nearly every Hard Mode encounter has been buffed so far. But 2.5 minutes to kill Hodir on Hard Mode...yike...

That makes Patchwerk at 60 look like easy street in comparison. Or perhaps it's the true gear check for taking on Algalon.

[Alaya]

Ensidia complained because someone beat Hodir pre-buffed when they tried to be the first to kill Yogg-Saron.

That's mean Blizz left them with buff hard mode, which seems impossible right now (you need around more than 200k raid dps oran average of over 12k dps on each raid member). They struggle to be the world first but Blizz had already make the encounter impossible, while other guild already have the needed quest item. That's why they complained a lot.

Today I try Mimirron and it's surely a fun fight. The fight is very dynamic and we really need to pay attention all the time. I hope I can finished him tomorrow...

[Xacual]

That guild that beat pre buff Hodir didn't get to keep the item from what I can find. Ensidia has beaten the new hard mode hodir but they used "questionable" tactics in which to do it so no idea if they'll be able to keep the item in the long run either.

[Knight Hawk]

^ Ensidia won't either. Blizzard hot-fixed Flower Power, so Ensidia and others trying need to find another way to beat Hodir.

Originally Posted by Ensidia

So we killed Hodir today on hard-mode. Up until this point and as stated in my blog we considered this boss completely impossible. It's not well tuned like Freya or Mimiron, luck is by far the biggest factor in this encounter and you need it in spades. We bashed about 15 hours into trying to do it when he was first changed to 2 minutes. We tried 8 Mages, we tried mass Death Knights, just about every possible comp you could think of.

So we didn't get that close, probably about 2:15 min if we had gone through with the kill (luckiest try ever). We did all the maths and worked out that this fight is 99% impossible (maybe perfect luck and 18 mages). I seriously doubt it's possible even with full Ulduar Gear. You need an average of over 12k dps on each raid member, and that is with 1 tank and 2 healers (not really doable because of dispelling requirements). So we decided after some thought to use Flower Power. I guess you could say it's like using a World Buff, but it's a pretty retarded strategy. Essentially you end up with 5 mages doing 250% more damage. With this we made it with literally 0.03 seconds left.

So a ridiculous strategy for the most ridiculous fight in the game. I'm not saying it's easy to do it this way because it really isn't. It is however the ONLY way to kill him at this point. We are not going to be screwed over by Blizzard trying to block Algalon 25 man when other guilds have already completed it, so we did what we had to.

We sincerely hope that Blizzard decides to correct this boss and the Flower Power. We will not use it for any other boss, but this fight just goes completely against everything Blizzard has said they want to make raiding. I've mailed Blizzard to this effect and we sincerely hope they fix both Hodir and Flower Power.

This is not a World First, it has no meaning at all. However we are not going to sit here and get screwed over by Blizzard. We may however release a video of a Mage doing 40k dps if people are interested.