News Stories

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

England (?) never really had the right to do what they did back in '47. Didn't stop em though...

[Netto Azure]

Power Plant Bombed In Gaza Is Insured By U.S. Government

WASHINGTON -- As lawmakers on Capitol Hill scrambled to approve increased military funding for Israel this week, a little-noted federal agency across town prepared to spend as much as $84 million to compensate an American company for losses sustained in the Israeli bombardment of a Gaza power plant.

The money would come from the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, which helps U.S. companies expand business abroad in ways that, to quote OPIC's website, "help solve critical development challenges and in doing so, [it] advances U.S. foreign policy." The agency does all this in part by offering insurance policies designed to protect companies from political risk, a broad term that includes "war, civil strife, coups," and "terrorism."

An OPIC spokesman told The Huffington Post on Tuesday that a "U.S. investor in the power plant whose investment is covered by OPIC political risk insurance ... notified OPIC that the facility in question has been damaged."

Irony of the highest order.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by aohige

Really, it comes down to this.

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Regardless of the details of the conflict, with hostility on both sides, my sympathy leans towards the side that lost 95% of their land, and the left over 5% or less is under constant infiltration/invasion/colonization from the opposing side.
The 1947 even two-state didn't work out. We get that. But the fact that the "white side" on the map hasn't stop its conquest, even to this very day, is worsening the situation.

I mean really, if one side will not stop until every bit of land is obliterated and conquered, what CAN the other side do?
The passive-aggressive BS stemming from the offensive side, pretending to be a victim of the conflict, is mindboggling hypocrisy.

Depending on how far in history you go back, you could claim that on (almost) every country of the world.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Depending on how far in history you go back, you could claim that on (almost) every country of the world.

See, this is the problem. There are some people who bring up "well it's happened before so it's ok!"
Pulling the history book out is irrelevant, because that's history.

This isn't the past. Or history. This is current events.
The continued reduction of their lands is happening right now. Not a hundred years ago.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by aohige

See, this is the problem. There are some people who bring up "well it's happened before so it's ok!"
Pulling the history book out is irrelevant, because that's history.

This isn't the past. Or history. This is current events.
The continued reduction of their lands is happening right now. Not a hundred years ago.

Agree

Same on killing American Indian. Or woman sexual harassment. Or child abuse. You can't just commit the crime and then tell the judge that "well, depend on how far you look back at history, people have always done that" and expect scot-free

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by JokerD

Are you sure?
Ebola: Liberia shuts schools to tackle outbreak

Seems like diseases are going full force to me. Anyway, they is kinda egocentric, since a disease doesn't need to directly kill humans to effect us. Get something that kills off the majority of food crops (plants or animals) and watch us kill each other over food.

It is already here. Coming to the South China Sea near you in the form of fishermen and patrol boats.

Originally Posted by aohige

See, this is the problem. There are some people who bring up "well it's happened before so it's ok!"
Pulling the history book out is irrelevant, because that's history.

This isn't the past. Or history. This is current events.
The continued reduction of their lands is happening right now. Not a hundred years ago.

Well, there is one thing to note that in history, people have been killing each other for years first before giving a reason for why they did so. It must have been a natural impulse programmed by Mother Nature to keep the world population and sustainability in check.

Then the inertia of death will swing to the other side, just like after WWII where there is a shortage of human beings in this world, and UN would make it illegal to have a age limit to marriage.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

just like after WWII where there is a shortage of human beings in this world, and UN would make it illegal to have a age limit to marriage.

Wait, wut?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Wait, wut?

After half the world population gets wiped out, we need to repopulate right?

Oversized talkshop declares that 'enough is enough' after another Gaza school attack

Three caches of rockets have also been found in vacant U.N. Relief and Works Agency schools during the conflict, prompting Ban to warn last week that those responsible were "turning schools into potential military targets."

So what the fakh are you, or have you, done about it? Ban* it?

* - Pun not intentional

[Ithekro]

In theory, there should be no Palestinian lands at all. Israel conquered them completely in the Six Day War. The only reason they exist at all is because UN law says that the defender of a war can't conquer lands or something like that.

Though note that those lands were controlled by Jordan and Eygpt, from about 1950 to 1967.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by aohige

See, this is the problem. There are some people who bring up "well it's happened before so it's ok!"
Pulling the history book out is irrelevant, because that's history.

This isn't the past. Or history. This is current events.
The continued reduction of their lands is happening right now. Not a hundred years ago.

"Now" is too abstract. You have to be more concrete about your statement. Would Russia annecting Crimea be considered "now" or "history"? Or do you think the Israel-Palestina conflict is considered as "now" until a peace treaty or at least the end of this conflict?

Or is "now" the 2,7 seconds the brain perceives as "now"?

If you don't make it more concrete, then people can just justify everything with it being "history".

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

In theory, there should be no Palestinian lands at all. Israel conquered them completely in the Six Day War. The only reason they exist at all is because UN law says that the defender of a war can't conquer lands or something like that.

Though note that those lands were controlled by Jordan and Eygpt, from about 1950 to 1967.

So Israel's right to exist can be erased if someone just invades and conquers it. Noted.

[JokerD]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

So Israel's right to exist can be erased if someone just invades and conquers it. Noted.

Isn't that actually the goal of Hamas and the middle eastern nations?

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Thats really a UN law? "Sorry, you're a defender, can't counter conquer! It's against the rules!" Sounds like something from a game.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by JokerD

Isn't that actually the goal of Hamas and the middle eastern nations?

Indeed. And yet somehow Israel is spreading the lie about how they "have the right to exist".

No nation has the right to exist. Your nation only has the right to try and survive, but your nation's survival is not guaranteed by anyone. If you lose, you lose. No divine providence or covenant is going to save you.

Can Israel just exterminate everyone on the West Bank? Sure.
Would Israel survive as a country if they actually follow through? We will see. Just because you can, doesn't make it a wise idea.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by aohige

See, this is the problem. There are some people who bring up "well it's happened before so it's ok!"
Pulling the history book out is irrelevant, because that's history.

This isn't the past. Or history. This is current events.
The continued reduction of their lands is happening right now. Not a hundred years ago.

It’s not so much that it’s “ok”, but rather that it’s simply how it is. Regardless of how you feel about the subject, territorial conquest has been a part of humanity from day 1 ‘til today, it’s never stopped.

What do you think is happening in Ukraine? Or Syria/Iraq? We may not have the global colonization empires from the 1800s, but that hardly means the human race has suddenly obtained enlightenment. The Israel-Palestine conflict isn’t one that just started now, it’s been going on for the last 60+ years. Tibet was conquered at roughly around the same time, is that one acceptable then simply because they were defeated quickly?

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

So Israel's right to exist can be erased if someone just invades and conquers it. Noted.

If the invader manages to conquer it and quashes all resistance, actually yea, pretty much. Example: every vanquished nation in human history ever.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Indeed. And yet somehow Israel is spreading the lie about how they "have the right to exist".

No nation has the right to exist. Your nation only has the right to try and survive, but your nation's survival is not guaranteed by anyone. If you lose, you lose. No divine providence or covenant is going to save you.

Eh, that’s just semantics. Rights is a social construct, it’s a human-created concept . You can’t say Israel is lying when they insist they have the right to exist, because it’s a claim they can make by themselves.

If your standard for something to be a “right” is to be guaranteed by divine providence….well, that’s a whole other can of worms there.

[JokerD]

And the earth continues to spin along it's axis

Anyway, in other news:
Greece: Outrage as Farmers Cleared for Shooting 28 Bangladeshi Strawberry Pickers

Greece has been accused of causing an "unprecedented racist scandal" for acquitting local farmers who shot 28 Bangladeshi strawberry pickers after they asked to be paid.

Ouch...

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by JokerD

And the earth continues to spin along it's axis

Anyway, in other news:
Greece: Outrage as Farmers Cleared for Shooting 28 Bangladeshi Strawberry Pickers



Ouch...

After what was happening in Greece, it wouldn't surprise me if they just killed them due to some kind of superiority complex... The last straw would be, if the costs for the fired bullets themselves were higher than the payment the workers were promised.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

"Now" is too abstract. You have to be more concrete about your statement. Would Russia annecting Crimea be considered "now" or "history"? Or do you think the Israel-Palestina conflict is considered as "now" until a peace treaty or at least the end of this conflict?

Or is "now" the 2,7 seconds the brain perceives as "now"?

If you don't make it more concrete, then people can just justify everything with it being "history".

This is nonsensical semantics.
All I'm saying is, I sympathize towards the guys getting pummeled, currently, right now, and has been for the past four decades.

Why do you have a problem with that? I mean, do you want everyone to be desensitized and smug?
Else, exactly what point are you trying to make by saying "well it's happened before, who cares"?

Originally Posted by kyp275

It’s not so much that it’s “ok”, but rather that it’s simply how it is. Regardless of how you feel about the subject, territorial conquest has been a part of humanity from day 1 ‘til today, it’s never stopped.

What do you think is happening in Ukraine? Or Syria/Iraq? We may not have the global colonization empires from the 1800s, but that hardly means the human race has suddenly obtained enlightenment. The Israel-Palestine conflict isn’t one that just started now, it’s been going on for the last 60+ years. Tibet was conquered at roughly around the same time, is that one acceptable then simply because they were defeated quickly?

kyp, two wrongs.. or two hundred wrongs, don't make a right.
Why in the world do you assume I think what's happening in Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq are acceptable?

For example, what does telling people sympathizing with a rape victim "rape happens all the time, everywhere!" accomplish?

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by aohige

kyp, two wrongs.. or two hundred wrongs, don't make a right.
Why in the world do you assume I think what's happening in Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq are acceptable?

I didn’t, the point was that this is not something new or uncommon, and to be blunt not something that’s universally seen as wrong either.

For example, what does telling people sympathizing with a rape victim "rape happens all the time, everywhere!" accomplish?

The purpose of the thread is to discuss news, no? Never mind that the two aren’t really comparable, the answer is nothing – which incidentally also apply to the other side, sympathizing on an internet forum also accomplish nothing.

exactly what point are you trying to make by saying "well it's happened before, who cares"?

A pragmatic take on the situation? In all honesty, that’s likely what it boils down to for most people. Have you sent supplies or donations to the Palestinians? Called or wrote your politician to express your view? Perhaps protest at the Israeli embassy? Have you done anything at all besides posting online about it?

Because if you haven’t, then frankly you probably actually don’t care that much about it - certainly no more, and probably less than the last movie you saw that was bad enough for you to rant about it online, at least you’ve actually spent money on that.

[aohige]

Well it's true, until something affects you directly, it doesn't have a high priority in your everyday life.
But that doesn't mean it's ok to sneer at sympathy and act desensitized and overtly pragmatic, no?

This isn't 4chan or 2ch, not all opinions have the equal weight, though.
Showing sympathy and saying "lol it hapens" isn't on the same term.

Besides, "this happens anywhere, so don't care about it" seems even less constructive for a news thread than the opposite... no?
I mean, that applies to pretty much everything that happens. That's a dead-end for any discussion, isn't it?