[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I think she used both. We've hints to how her creator is Sayo who made that PieceBeatrice a fantasy character born to love Battler in place of Sayo.

However this new Beatrice is also something Battler recreated using the old Beatrice as a model in hope to reincarnate her or something along the line.

So in a way she's born out of the first Beato as well.

Hm. I wouldn't say Battler had a hand in Chick Beato's creation, per se. According to Featherine (in the EP6 manga at least), the one who created her and instilled the goal into her was the original Beatrice. Battler merely put the piece on the board. And IIRC, the Beato that visited him after he table flipped Chick's cookies told him that if he could not see her as the same old Beato, to look at her as an orphan she left in his care.

Which is the vanilla end? Though I too would like for the manga to elaborate more the ending.

Beato and Battler, along with the whole gang, living happily ever after in the Golden Land. Though there are things that seem rather queer to me (Ange as a child appeared in the reunion even though Adult Angie was there showing Tohya around just a moment). But a man can hope, eh? Lol

[Mali]

@JJ: thanks for the link. It's strange that Beatrice isn't treated as a person while she appeared in 2 and 4. Personal pronouns: For example: Battler refered himself as "Battler". But Erika used "you" to refer him. Beatrice also refered Erika as "you" several times. This happened in Battlers closed room. So players and pieces are distinguished or not? (since both players were in the guest room. Meta Battler disappeared from the closed room(?)

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0

Hm. I wouldn't say Battler had a hand in Chick Beato's creation, per se. According to Featherine (in the EP6 manga at least), the one who created her and instilled the goal into her was the original Beatrice. Battler merely put the piece on the board. And IIRC, the Beato that visited him after he table flipped Chick's cookies told him that if he could not see her as the same old Beato, to look at her as an orphan she left in his care.

Featherine however implied in the VN and in the manga that Chick Beato isn't just a Piece as Battler is trying to revive the original Beatrice, not just to play with her piece. Battler gathered all the rules to recreate the original Beato. He definitely had a hand in ChickBeato's existence, although the... let's call it the base model of Beato was created by Sayo.

It's all really meta though and it's mostly up to interpretation so it's fine if you feel differently.

Originally Posted by Reality Breaker 2.0

Beato and Battler, along with the whole gang, living happily ever after in the Golden Land. Though there are things that seem rather queer to me (Ange as a child appeared in the reunion even though Adult Angie was there showing Tohya around just a moment). But a man can hope, eh? Lol

That scene is a matter of interpretation.
The Golden Land is stated as nothing else but the land of death.
Sayo is very likely dead and therefore so is Beatrice and so she's in the Golden Land.
Although Battler's body survived, Battler as a person/identity did not. Tohya is a different person. However, Battler wasn't dead either and when part of Tohya's memory returned... I guess you could say Battler sort of wandered aimlessly in the land of living although being dead. The scene of Battler joining the others in the Golden Land likely implies he was finally put to rest. Tohya could move over.
Something similar applies to Ange. A part of her likely died long ago, when Ange began a new life.
Bern tells us in red that Ange definitely died in 1998. That Ange, or better that part of Ange who died in 1998 is the one we see in the Golden Land... while Ange's body, is now Yukari and showing Tohya around.

That's why Ryukishi said it can be seen as something sinister... because we're basically looking at ghosts.

Originally Posted by Mali

@JJ: thanks for the link. It's strange that Beatrice isn't treated as a person while she appeared in 2 and 4. Personal pronouns: For example: Battler refered himself as "Battler". But Erika used "you" to refer him. Beatrice also refered Erika as "you" several times. This happened in Battlers closed room. So players and pieces are distinguished or not? (since both players were in the guest room. Meta Battler disappeared from the closed room(?)

You're welcome!
Well, Beatrice insists she's not a person/human (I'm not really sure which of the two she used in the original Japanese text) but a witch so I guess she couldn't count herself as such... but I fear going through this discussion as I could end up slipping into some Japanese language technicalities I'm unaware of.

It's a bit complicate.
But basically...
We've the pieces and, among them, Battler, Beato and Erika. Those 3 special pieces also have or will get or better will develop as the story progress a Meta version which is separate from them (MetaBeato is separate from PieceBeato right from the start, MetaBattler has birth at the end of the first ep, Meta Erika starts showing up during ep 5 but evidently not at the beginning or she would have heard Battler's narration).
MetaBattler in the beginning and MetaErika in ep 5 are very much tied to their pieces so that the pieces end up mimicking the actions of their Meta version even when it has no sense for them to act in such a way... while the same can't be said later as Battler in ep 5 doesn't know his piece had been bribed.

Ultimately though the Meta version and the Piece version are sort of like two different people with the Meta residing in a higher plane.

The 'you', you speak of probably just refers to 'the piece that represents you' and that often is used by the player as a... vector to move or act on the gameboard.

To talk about ep 6, piece Battler was teorethically closed in a room because Meta Battler couldn't find a way to have him leave that rooom. As Meta Battler thinks of a way to have piece Battler leave that room that won't end in logic error, he ends up identifying himself with piece Battler and metaphorically closing himself in that closed room.

In fact you can see two meta Battler in the manga, one is outside the closed room but is sort of an empty shell, the other is inside and tries to get out of it.

Piece Battler instead isn't represented in the closed room because he isn't supposed to be there. The narrative wants him out of that room. Only if Meta Battler doesn't find a way for him to leave it's logic error with all the consequences this causes.

... hum... I'm not sure I've explained it well but I hope it helps...

[Y Ddraig Goch]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Featherine however implied in the VN and in the manga that Chick Beato isn't just a Piece as Battler is trying to revive the original Beatrice, not just to play with her piece. Battler gathered all the rules to recreate the original Beato. He definitely had a hand in ChickBeato's existence, although the... let's call it the base model of Beato was created by Sayo.

It's all really meta though and it's mostly up to interpretation so it's fine if you feel differently.

Oh man. I completely forgot about those details you mentioned (so embarrasing to forget important stuff like this .-.). Yeah, Chick was what Beato originally was before going experiencing through the 1000 years, and just like you said, her base form. Battler had to gather up the rules to give her form so he totes had a hand in the establishment of her existence. Now that you reminded me of the details you just shared, I pretty much agree with your answer lol.

That scene is a matter of interpretation.
The Golden Land is stated as nothing else but the land of death.
Sayo is very likely dead and therefore so is Beatrice and so she's in the Golden Land.
Although Battler's body survived, Battler as a person/identity did not. Tohya is a different person. However, Battler wasn't dead either and when part of Tohya's memory returned... I guess you could say Battler sort of wandered aimlessly in the land of living although being dead. The scene of Battler joining the others in the Golden Land likely implies he was finally put to rest. Tohya could move over.
Something similar applies to Ange. A part of her likely died long ago, when Ange began a new life.
Bern tells us in red that Ange definitely died in 1998. That Ange, or better that part of Ange who died in 1998 is the one we see in the Golden Land... while Ange's body, is now Yukari and showing Tohya around.

That's why Ryukishi said it can be seen as something sinister... because we're basically looking at ghosts.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. Battler was pretty much another person to Tohya. And when you put Ange's circumstances like that and the Golden Land's raison d'etre... Yeah. That does seem like a passing on, doesn't it? It's just that when Ryukishi said "as well as something sinister", I was expecting something very bitter; something that could make me really salty like EP1-5 Beato's demise ._.

Though amusingly, I also kinda saw Battler's return as a curtain call of sorts lol.

[Mali]

Can I say that ep6 is a time loop? In the beginning "Battlers" soul is trapped in the guest room and its vessel is going to marry Erika. The end repeated this.

[AuraTwilight]

No, it was just in media res.

[Mali]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

No, it was just in media res.

Sorry what do you mean by "is in media res"?

[Golden Lily]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Bern tells us in red that Ange definitely died in 1998. That Ange, or better that part of Ange who died in 1998 is the one we see in the Golden Land... while Ange's body, is now Yukari and showing Tohya around.

But Ange even as a Yukari remembered everything perfectly, she wasn't complaining about her 'past life' interefering with her 'current life', like Battler/Tohya. So is it really the same?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Spoiler for Here it's the solution as confirmed by sources:

Part 1

Yasuda Sayo, who believed to be an orphan, was carried on Rokkenjima and given the blessed name of Shannon (in early episodes it's said all the servants working for the Ushiromiya are given new blessed names). The other servants though nicknamed her Yasu, nick whom she hated but with whom she identified herself.
To her she was Yasu, a clumsy servant with no friend.
As she was lonely she created an immaginary friend, a role model that would keep her company and that would be the person she hoped to become and named it 'Shannon'.
At this point basically Yasuda Sayo is nicknamed Yasu by the servants and called Shannon by the Ushiromiya so Yasuda Sayo, Yasu and Shannon are all the same person but in her mind she pretend Yasu and Shannon are like two separate beings. She's Yasu and Shannon is another person who confort and support her.
As things go on and she's bullied and keep being clumsy and losing things she creates another immaginary friend, the witch Beatrice whom she blames for the disappearance of her stuffs.
So, although we still have again only one person, in Sayo's imaginary mind setting, she's not lonely as she has two friends, Shannon, the servant and Beatrice, the witch from the legend.

Part 2

Things go on and not only she learns not to lose her stuffs or let herself be tricked so easily but the girls bullying her are sent away and she becomes the one who tricks others causing objects to disappear.
In short her 'Yasu' self, the one she viewed as clumsy and unable to do things, disappear. She stops identifying herself as such and upgrades her own self image to Shannon, even through she is a Shannon that's not as perfect as the one in her fantasy.
When she's playing pranks through, she sees herself as Beatrice, the witch.
Mind you, she's not suffering of multiple personality, to her this is all a game, a fantasy. Let's remember she was very young and that kids can have imaginary friends or pretend they're someone else.
Anyway she doesn't feel like getting rid of the imaginary Beatrice she just strips her of that name and keep her as an imaginary witch friend later called Gaap.

So now we have Sayo who finally identifies herself as Shannon but that, when playing pranks likes to pretend she's Beatrice and that is left with only 1 imaginary friend, Gaap.

Moving on.

Part 3

Due to depression and problems with her body who wasn't developing properly but kept on looking like the one of a boy she began to feel uneasy in her own skin. She wondered if life would be simpler if she really were a boy and so, with the help of Genji and Kumasawa, she begins to play out the role of Kanon.
In short she dresses up like a boy and feels free to be rude with everyone, getting rid of the frustration she felt. As there are no other servant boys on the island the other servants girls show interest in Kanon and don't bully him despite him keeping away from them.
This roleplay game is however just a way to cope with her own feelings and not a permanent switching as she also continue being Shannon on her daily life and pretending to be Beatrice when she plays pranks.
Her roaster of imaginary friends however expands due to her friendship with Maria.

So now we've Yasuda Sayo, in her past nicknamed Yasu, called by the Ushiromiya Shannon, occasionally ropleplaying as Kanon, pretending to be Beatrice when playing prank or playing with Maria and with an assorted set of imaginary friends.

Part 4

Due to the trauma of being told the truth about herself (she's Lion, Kinzo incest baby and therefore won't be able to marry the only people who loved her and whom she loved, Battler and George and she got an injury who makes her unable to have children when she desperately wanted a family) she sinks into desperation.
In her mind she views Beatrice as the one that voices out her self hate and Kanon as the one that voices out her lack of hopes.
She'd like to do something but she's so desperate she can't find at anything nor find the courage to face the situation she's in.
Ultimately however she would like to quit roleplaying Kanon and Beatrice, likely hoping that in this way her self hate and lack of hope would disappear, marry George and live as Shannon.
However as she's told that Battler is coming back she realizes her resolve to marry George isn't as strong as she still favour Battler over George.
Not knowing what to do, disgusted at her own body and feelings, living in fear of being rejected if the truth about herself were to come to light, disgusted by the hypocrisy around her (Natsuhi talks of honour but she tossed her off a cliff and hid Kinzo's death, Krauss prides himself as a smart investor but he's actually losing money at every turn and so on for everyone around her) she decides to commit Shinjū... which losely, very losely, is Japanese group suicide.

While the thing might look as nonsense to a western, the whole thing was pretty common in Japan so it makes sense TO HER.

However, as many committing suicide, she'd like to be saved so she plans to perform it in such a way that if certain conditions will take place she'll be saved.

In short she wanted to organize her Shinjū so that it would look like a mystery and if someone were to solve it she'll stop.

Due to this she bribes accomplices and writes various plans. We don't know which plan she chose but she put the discharged plans into bottles and tossed them into the sea as well because if they were found prior to tragedy stricking again she could be stopped.

When the fateful day comes from Eva's diary we know that the adults solved the epitaph. This was, in Sayo's mind, one of the conditions for her to stop her Shinjū so she technically quit here.
The adults however begin to argue and as their argument grows heated they grab guns. Eva accidentally kills Natsuhi.

We know that Krauss gets killed next, likely because, enraged for the death of his life, he wanted to kill Eva.

From this point on things are less clear but very likely Kyrie killed Rosa and Hideyoshi and shot Eva. When Eva woke up she found the others dead and blamed Kyrie and Rudolf then likely killed them both.

To sum it up

The real murderers in the real Rokkenjima were the adults. The games however are based on the plot Sayo wrote and that had her as the true culprit.

So the culprit for the various episodes, which are nothing else but forgeries, is Sayo, who here and there worked with the help of accomplices. The murders for Rokkenjima Prime, which is the real world, are Eva, Rudolf and Kyrie and possibly Hideyoshi (it's unsure if Krauss was killed by Eva or it was Hideyoshi who killed him to protect Eva). It's unsure if someone else got a chance to kill someone but as of now it looks unlikely. It's strongly implied that if Sayo wasn't killed by Kyrie or Rudolf she killed/tried to kill herself. Battler survived but lost his own memory and became Tohya, so his own Battler self ended up being killed as well. Eva survived some more years and took charge of Ange. Short after Eva's death in 1998 Ange also disappeared/died.

I've cut parts here and there but if you go through the VN you can see hints to the solution and if you read the manga and the interviews you can see it's confirmed.

That's a pretty cool summary. I haven't been around here for a while but if all that stuff is finally confirmed that's quite good news.

At any rate as someone who has been out of touch with whatever has been confirmed with interviews or extra sources for a while, I wish to know if there have been specific confirmations and\or explanations about certain subjects especially regarding Rokkenjima Prime.

1) Is the existence of a person named Sayo Yasuda acknowledged by society?
2) If yes, is it public knowledge that Sayo Yasuda is assumed to have died in the Rokkenjima Incident?
3) Is there any confirmation as to what was officially reported as the material cause behind the explosion?
4) Is Kinzo's backstory shown in EP7 confirmed to be true especially regarding the Italian gold and the several tons of explosive?
5) Was it ever mentioned again the hint that suggests that the idea of stealing the gold was something that Kinzo devised and not his superior as he described in his flashback?
6) Is there any confirmation or strong hint that suggests which is Sayo's actual sex?
7) Have there been any more insights regarding Ange's absence from the family meeting? In other words anything that would suggest it wasn't something that casually happened?
8) Like above, have there been any more insights regarding Battler's Grandparents timely deaths which caused him to go back to Rudolf's family?


I'm looking for official extra elements beyond the VN episodes which include later interviews, manga and so on.
If these questions weren't addressed that's fine, rather than the answers themselves I'm mainly interested in knowing if additional sources about those subjects exist.

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by Mali

Sorry what do you mean by "is in media res"?

"In media res" is a narrative device where a story starts in the middle of the action, and then often uses an extended flashback to explain how we got to that point.

6) Is there any confirmation or strong hint that suggests which is Sayo's actual sex?

Sayo was almost certainly born a male. In character questionnaires Lion mentions his favorite classes having been things like home ec and cooking, and explaining defensively, "It's not just for girls! Everyone should know how to make a good home!" and in the EP8 manga, Sayo literally has a scene where she's wondering why she isn't bleeding like other girls.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That's a pretty cool summary. I haven't been around here for a while but if all that stuff is finally confirmed that's quite good news.

Hi! Nice to hear of you again!

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

At any rate as someone who has been out of touch with whatever has been confirmed with interviews or extra sources for a while, I wish to know if there have been specific confirmations and\or explanations about certain subjects especially regarding Rokkenjima Prime.

1) Is the existence of a person named Sayo Yasuda acknowledged by society?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean but the manga offered us three chapters which are supposed to be considered all in red truth. In it is shown Sayo's whole story from when she came to Rokkenjima to the day before the conference.
Among the things we see there's a bit of her school life. She attended to it as a girl and her classmates called her Yasuda.
So the existence of a Yasuda who worked for the Ushiromiya is more confirmed than the existence of a Kanon who was shown only once outside of Rokkenjima for the public.
Also, I don't know if it counts but when the goats representing the theories from the future attacked Rokkenjima, Erika attacked Beatrice calling her Yasuda Sayo.
While Erika is not alive in 1998 in that scene I take she represents someone from the future who reached the solution. I might be wrong on this though as I've only read the translation of the scene and hadn't seen it yet but it was graphically changed quite a bit from the one we had in the manga so I'm waiting anxiously to see it.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

2) If yes, is it public knowledge that Sayo Yasuda is assumed to have died in the Rokkenjima Incident?

As everyone on Rokkenjima is assumed to be dead she's assumed to be dead as well. She didn't get any specific mention if that's what you're asking but the public opinion is more focused on pinning the blame of the massacre on an Ushiromiya so the servants go mostly neglected.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

3) Is there any confirmation as to what was officially reported as the material cause behind the explosion?

The 3 overmentioned chapters showed us all the expolosives Kinzo had.
The public however knows that Kinzo had built a clock with a device to blow up the island as the guy who built it testimonied about doing it.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

4) Is Kinzo's backstory shown in EP7 confirmed to be true especially regarding the Italian gold and the several tons of explosive?

In the overmentioned 3 chapters is told that Kinzo keeps in his basements the skeletons of the Italian and Japanese soldiers who died that day. So Italian soldiers reached Rokkenjima and a lot of Italian and Japanese soldiers died there.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

5) Was it ever mentioned again the hint that suggests that the idea of stealing the gold was something that Kinzo devised and not his superior as he described in his flashback?

Apart for the red in ep 7 that said that Kinzo was the one who wanted to steal the gold we don't really have any confirmation about how things went. Sayo suspects Kinzo was behind the massacre, Genji doesn't try to defend Kinzo and, as of now, we don't hear anything else. Ep 7 though is almost at that scene in which is said in red that it was Kinzo's idea so it might expand it with more red.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

6) Is there any confirmation or strong hint that suggests which is Sayo's actual sex?

I'll say the hints are more toward the possibility of Sayo being male than being female but it's still all vague enough to not completely rule out the possibility she was female even if I'll say it's smaller than before. It might end up being developed further in future chapters.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

7) Have there been any more insights regarding Ange's absence from the family meeting? In other words anything that would suggest it wasn't something that casually happened?

Nope. People theorized it was done on purpose but everything seems to imply Ange merely wasn't feeling well that day. Of course since Ange got easily sick and previously Kyrie had no problems taking her along it could also be that yes, Ange got sick and Kyrie caught that excuse to leave her behind.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

8) Like above, have there been any more insights regarding Battler's Grandparents timely deaths which caused him to go back to Rudolf's family?

Nope, sadly nothing was told about Asumu's or her parents' death (I wanted to know about it too!). Honestly I was hoping to know more about it but it just seems they were casual deaths. I take Battler's grandparents died one after the other due to old age. Although a Rudolf family culprit theory is popular there are no suspicions about their death so I take the public consider it natural.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I'm looking for official extra elements beyond the VN episodes which include later interviews, manga and so on.
If these questions weren't addressed that's fine, rather than the answers themselves I'm mainly interested in knowing if additional sources about those subjects exist.

The manga is tossing out A LOT of info, part with completely new scenes (the fight between Erika and Battler was changed so that they discussed ep 5 & 6 instead than random closed rooms and due to this we've now the complete solution of those two episodes alongside with some additional red over them) part with just keeping the old dialogues but giving better visual explanations of what went on (for example in ep 7 teaparty we can see that Beatrice isn't anymore in the room when Eva wakes up after having been shot by Kyrie... not that Eva notices... and when Will tossed his own solutions at Clair they're visually represented as well so that you can see what he meant) so I really recommend giving it a glance.

I'm not sure it'll ever definitely pin down Sayo's biological sex or what happened to Battler's mother and grandparents and a couple of other things I would have wanted confirmations about but really, there's plenty of new material.

Originally Posted by Golden Lily

But Ange even as a Yukari remembered everything perfectly, she wasn't complaining about her 'past life' interefering with her 'current life', like Battler/Tohya. So is it really the same?

I think an Ange/Yukari's case is the dead of an identity (I'm not too sure if it's the right word to use here... ). She abandoned her own identity as Ange, as well as her own mindset and started a new life as a new person. The person that she was before is dead, Yukari is... well a reborn/newborn person.

Umineko played a lot with various deaths that aren't physical but still are labelled as deaths so I think this count.

[Jan-Poo]

Awesome thanks for the answers.

Regarding the 3 chapters of Yasuda's past I suppose they are on the manga of the 7th episode right?

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Awesome thanks for the answers.

Regarding the 3 chapters of Yasuda's past I suppose they are on the manga of the 7th episode right?

Nope, they're an extra from Ep 8.
In Prime Sayo wrote her confession (a story of her life from childhood to just the day prior to the family conference) on red paper and put it in a bottle which Ikuko found.
In the Meta in the city of books Ange found a message in the bottle which transformed in a red fragment/world and remained with her. When she tossed herself off the building, before ending up in the Golden Land, the red fragment floated in her mind and she was informed of Sayo's past.
Haguruma posted translations of all this if you're curious in the past posts.
Those three chapters tell us quite a lot about Sayo, her life, her mindsetting and the solutions of the games so I recommend reading them.

Ep 7 contains really few extra info so far (a graphic representation of the solutions Will gave, it showed Beatrice wasn't anymore in the room when Eva woke up and hinted that Shannon was an imaginary friend as you can see her when the servants are all lined up and she's talking to Yasu and then you can't see her anymore when Genji is talking to them).
It's ep 8 which, so far, filled us with hints and explanations, often detailed ones.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Nope, they're an extra from Ep 8.
In Prime Sayo wrote her confession (a story of her life from childhood to just the day prior to the family conference) on red paper and put it in a bottle which Ikuko found.
In the Meta in the city of books Ange found a message in the bottle which transformed in a red fragment/world and remained with her. When she tossed herself off the building, before ending up in the Golden Land, the red fragment floated in her mind and she was informed of Sayo's past.
Haguruma posted translations of all this if you're curious in the past posts.
Those three chapters tell us quite a lot about Sayo, her life, her mindsetting and the solutions of the games so I recommend reading them.

Ep 7 contains really few extra info so far (a graphic representation of the solutions Will gave, it showed Beatrice wasn't anymore in the room when Eva woke up and hinted that Shannon was an imaginary friend as you can see her when the servants are all lined up and she's talking to Yasu and then you can't see her anymore when Genji is talking to them).
It's ep 8 which, so far, filled us with hints and explanations, often detailed ones.

Wow, so this is totally added material.
I wish something like that was included in the VN version of EP8.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Wow, so this is totally added material.
I wish something like that was included in the VN version of EP8.

Same here. Also Battler's fight with Erika was way cooler as they fought on Ep 5 & 6 and for Erika it was a fierce battle to defend her honour as a detective solving the mysteries she couldn't solve before and then we had Beato and the Ushiromiya admit their sins in front of Ange so as to better deliver the moral of the story (we got to a bad ending not because the Ushiromiya were excedingly evil but because through all their lives they piled up wrong choices after wrong choices and this mountain of wrong choices leaded them to the worst outcome possible).
We've Ange also better delivering her desperation so that she doesn't sound anymore like a brat that is stepping her feet on the ground demanding the truth but she truly sounds like a heartbroken person who'd been driven to desperation by keeping on wondering what had happened.
Facing the goats lead Battler to better understand what Ange went through, how people over people tossed at her hurtful theories as if for them it was all a game.
We've the moments in which Rosa faces what a horrible mother she was and admits it wasn't Maria's fault (along with bits of Rosa's past that better leas us to understand why she was so ruined).
We've Ange waking up in the golden land but finding still difficult to cope with the truth until she's helped to think over it.
Erika is better fleshed out and you can figure that she became witch of truth likely because she was troubled by not knowing the truth same as Ange and that, in order to do so, she likely tossed her life away same as Ange (and I've the feeling deep down Erika doesn't love herself much, same as Ange).
We've better explanations on what was in the book of the one truth.
Eva Beatrice too comes out as better fleshed out. In short so far everything is much, much better.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

1) Is the existence of a person named Sayo Yasuda acknowledged by society?
2) If yes, is it public knowledge that Sayo Yasuda is assumed to have died in the Rokkenjima Incident?

Adding to what jjblue already mentioned, we have to keep in mind that (Yasuda) Sayo is the actual name of "Shannon" that we got confronted with from EP1 onwards. So for the outside it would have likely been more questionable who this "Kanon" in the stories was, which explains why in the EP8 manga there is also a strong focus on people claiming he is an illusion made up by Jessica who went crazy over loneliness, and why this would lead those people to a Jessica-culprit theory.
Sayo was never a secret, only her identity was so muddled by fate and fiction that even we kind of let her slip through our fingers, even though we got her handed even before any murders had happened. Kind of also made me understand Erika's anger in the remade battle with Battler in the manga

3) Is there any confirmation as to what was officially reported as the material cause behind the explosion?

Since word got out that Kinzo kept explosives under his mansion and had a device to trigger them (most likely during the follow-up investigation), it was most likely decided to treat it as an accident due to missing evidence that anybody actually triggered the device.
Eva kept silent and was likely cleared of suspicion due to circumstancial (her own family being dead, people testifying on her character, her state of mind) and possible actual evidence (they will have questioned her more than once). The police will have stood before the choice of either incriminating everyone of the dead or none of them...not actually good police work, but it works within the setting.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Wow, so this is totally added material.
I wish something like that was included in the VN version of EP8.

I would still love to create (or have someone create) a VN-Version of the new chapters...like an EP8 Director's Cut I already have a perfect playlist in my head of what songs to play during which scenes and it would make EP8 so much of a better experience.
I also have to say, rereading some of the VN parts with the voice-acting from the PS3 port...I have this feeling that even the seiyuu didn't quite get what to do with the scenes in the VN script, with many scenes just ending up lackluster instead of impactful. The battle in the chapel between Ange and Beatrice seems so randomly aggressive and nonsensical in the VN-script and then the manga panels turn the same script into such a heart-breaking scene.

[Golden Lily]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Haguruma posted translations of all this if you're curious in the past posts.
Those three chapters tell us quite a lot about Sayo, her life, her mindsetting and the solutions of the games so I recommend reading them.

I hope they show us lovey-dovey scenes between Batora and Sayo too
Waiting for scanlations.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by haguruma

Adding to what jjblue already mentioned, we have to keep in mind that (Yasuda) Sayo is the actual name of "Shannon" that we got confronted with from EP1 onwards. So for the outside it would have likely been more questionable who this "Kanon" in the stories was, which explains why in the EP8 manga there is also a strong focus on people claiming he is an illusion made up by Jessica who went crazy over loneliness, and why this would lead those people to a Jessica-culprit theory.
Sayo was never a secret, only her identity was so muddled by fate and fiction that even we kind of let her slip through our fingers, even though we got her handed even before any murders had happened. Kind of also made me understand Erika's anger in the remade battle with Battler in the manga

Well what I'm trying to understand specifically if the birth and existence of a person named "Sayo Yasuda" was officially registered, because we have at least two persons (Beatrice and Beatrice's daughter) that never did.
The fact that we see Yasu regularly attending school would suggest that she was, although there might still be a chance that somehow the school principal at Niijima was bribed to accept a student that had no legal documents.

We have seen goats claiming that "Shannon" doesn't exist, which would lead to logically assume that neither "Shannon" nor "Kanon" figure as presumed dead persons in any official document.
The question is if "Sayo Yasuda" does.

Originally Posted by haguruma

Since word got out that Kinzo kept explosives under his mansion and had a device to trigger them (most likely during the follow-up investigation), it was most likely decided to treat it as an accident due to missing evidence that anybody actually triggered the device.
Eva kept silent and was likely cleared of suspicion due to circumstancial (her own family being dead, people testifying on her character, her state of mind) and possible actual evidence (they will have questioned her more than once). The police will have stood before the choice of either incriminating everyone of the dead or none of them...not actually good police work, but it works within the setting.

The main problem here for me is not whether it was a crime or not but "what the hell happened". An unprecedented explosion occurred, surely people would want to know (before asking who) what caused it.
An atomic bomb, a volcano, aliens? There must have been an official investigation and there has to be an official explanation, or well... unless they actually had the guts to simply declare "we have no idea".

Originally Posted by haguruma

I would still love to create (or have someone create) a VN-Version of the new chapters...like an EP8 Director's Cut I already have a perfect playlist in my head of what songs to play during which scenes and it would make EP8 so much of a better experience.

That sounds like a very nice idea, if you give me the lines I could do it, but I think there might be a few problems regarding backgrounds and sprites, especially a Yasu sprite.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Well what I'm trying to understand specifically if the birth and existence of a person named "Sayo Yasuda" was officially registered, because we have at least two persons (Beatrice and Beatrice's daughter) that never did.
The fact that we see Yasu regularly attending school would suggest that she was, although there might still be a chance that somehow the school principal at Niijima was bribed to accept a student that had no legal documents.

We have seen goats claiming that "Shannon" doesn't exist, which would lead to logically assume that neither "Shannon" nor "Kanon" figure as presumed dead persons in any official document.
The question is if "Sayo Yasuda" does.

Well, my guess is that they just handed to the Fukuin house Sayo as baby saying something along the line of 'it was abandoned, no idea when or where it was born' or 'just deal with this baby as if it was abandoned, no idea when or where it was born' and the director of the Fukuin house had Sayo being registred the same way they did when they found an abandoned baby so a Yasuda Sayo existed.
I think they were trying to deny Shannon as the 'maid in love with George', not as the existing person.

When they deny Kanon in the manga they claim that:

Something like Kanon doesn't exist...
A piece of furniture that doesn't amount to a human...!
Something like Kanon doesn't exist.....
Kanon doesn't amount to a human...

And Jessica will have to prove Kanon's existence:

And there was the school festival!!
I introduced Kanon to everybody there!!
To Saku and Hina and everybody!! All my friends can prove that!!

In Shannon's case instead they say:

Shannon is an illusion...
George is nothing but a gloomy shut-in...
Their relationship is an illusion as well...!!
Shannon only approached George in order to get her hands on the inheritance...

So I get the feeling that more than Shannon itself they were trying to deny the idea Shannon might ever had interest for George.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

The main problem here for me is not whether it was a crime or not but "what the hell happened". An unprecedented explosion occurred, surely people would want to know (before asking who) what caused it.
An atomic bomb, a volcano, aliens? There must have been an official investigation and there has to be an official explanation, or well... unless they actually had the guts to simply declare "we have no idea".

Well, in Ange's future the guy who created the explosion mechanism tattled out its existence so they know it existed, how it works (with the clock causing an explosion at midnight) and likely that it used the explosive left over in Rokkenjima.
Now the question would be: did the mechanism ended up malfunctioning so that even if nobody touched it, it just caused an explosion anyway, did someone triggered it by accident not knowing what it would cause (oh, cool, a clock with a weird mechanism... let's try to move it... oh? nothing happens? who cares let's it as it is now...) or on purpose.
But as the clock was blasted up you can't prove if someone tampered with it by purpose or incident or if it malfunctioned so even if you can suspect Eva due to the circumstances actually you can prove she touched it.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

That sounds like a very nice idea, if you give me the lines I could do it, but I think there might be a few problems regarding backgrounds and sprites, especially a Yasu sprite.

In those three chapters Yasu is depicted like a young Shannon. Evidently the blond Yasu we saw in ep 7 was just an 'embellishment' or a trick to hide the truth. Those three chapters are a lot more straightforward, showing clearly how it was the servants who hid the little brush, having Yasu admit how she tricked Berune and Asune and outright stating that Beatrice was her own fantasy. They even showed clearly how it was Shannon the one who pretended to be Beatrice when playing with Maria (ep 7 instead always depicted her as Beato) and... well, all the flat truth. So technically one can recycle Shannon's spite and use it for Yasu.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Well what I'm trying to understand specifically if the birth and existence of a person named "Sayo Yasuda" was officially registered, because we have at least two persons (Beatrice and Beatrice's daughter) that never did.

This is a part I can also only speculate about, since so far there hasn't been any direct confirmation, but it is very likely that at least a personal file for "Sayo Yasuda" would exist in the Fukuin House. She could have easily been handled as a case of child-abandonment, parents registered as unknown. Considering that she went to middle school as well, she must have had some form of register.

Beatrice I was officially registered, but in Italy, and then probably declared either missing and later dead or immediately dead, while Kinzo kept her hidden away as best as he could (which, considering that Japan was struggling with postwar restructuring, was probably not that difficult with the money he soon earned).
It was only Beatrice II that completely went without any form of official identity

Like jjblue already said, Erika in the latest chapter declaring Yasuda Sayo in Blue indicates that her identy was known to the world, she just wasn't seen as majorly important since her "actual identity" (Ushiromiya Lion) was unknown. We have Black Shannon declaring the theories that Shannon was only after George's money and pretended to love him, so it's likely that most people never thought beyond that option.

The main problem here for me is not whether it was a crime or not but "what the hell happened". An unprecedented explosion occurred, surely people would want to know (before asking who) what caused it.

Maybe that went under due to the amount of things I pointed out?
It IS known information that Kinzo had the clock and that the island was rigged up with explosives in at least 1998. The way the manga portrays it, it was pretty common knowledge, so I assume the guy who built that mechanism for Kinzo actually confessed to the police. But since Eva's guilt seemed highly unlikely (to the officials) due to circumstancial evidence and they didn't find any indication of anybody else surviving, they dropped the case and declared it an accident.
They knew what blew up, they simply have no leads to find out who blew the island up.

That sounds like a very nice idea, if you give me the lines I could do it, but I think there might be a few problems regarding backgrounds and sprites, especially a Yasu sprite.

That shouldn't be much of a problem, since Yasu/Sayo is basically just Shannon with less boobs during the Confession chapters and from then on just either Shannon or Shannon with the Beatrice dress on.
I'd just need to include the cues for music into the translated scripts. But I'd rather wait until the point when you have also read some of the manga chapters.