(CR) Hibike! Euphonium Season 2

[Julio C]

Wow, they went with a full 8-9 min segment, that was nearly half of the episode on just the performance and amazing it was. Hearing Mizore's solo was nice, and she was elegant as ever.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Mizore would need a whole new arc to grow enough to move on. This isn't what her arc was about.

Well, I agree with you, but on the other hand Yuuko rose enough points to make it a fair possibility and a more meaningful closure, given that Mizore is a side character. Just that.
Just saying, not that this way detracted anything from the episode as a whole.

[Kanon]

I didn't expect the performance to last this long. That was great. Really great.

[Marina2]

I believe Yuuko is happy that Mizore found the happiness. If anything, this scan from last month implies that Nozomi, Mizore, Natsuki and Yuuko will hangout together as friend.

IMO, character that got the most benefit from this arc the most is Yuuko, she has developed into such a cute and cool person. Look at images below.

Images

Did you guy notice this reference to the first season?

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[Triple_R]

My take on Hibike Season 2, through its first 4 episodes, was "beautiful but kinda sleepy".

But Episode 5 is a different matter. KyoAni clearly went all-out for this episode, and it definitely delivered an exciting and intense episode, while being just as beautiful as ever. Hibike Season 2 Episode 5 is, for me, the best anime episode of this Fall Season so far. Truly excellent, and they definitely made the right call in giving us that long full performance. It was an excellent performance just to listen to, especially the two solos, but it was the visuals that truly put it over the top. Great job!

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Arya

^ mmm, I'd be more dubious about Nozomi will to stay with Mizore. I mean, she completely forgot about her and now she is hanging out with her, but for how long? but well I dont' think they put much thought into that, they just wanted to give them a closure on an high note, but I agree it would be more meaningful to have her to be with Yuuko instead of Nozomi. Like to say she finally moved on. And for Yuuko herself.

The stakes aren't that high. Neither Yuuko nor Nozomi are dependent on Mizore for companionship. It only goes the other way.

And while, yes, Mizore was with Nozomi and Yuuko with other friends just before the concert, they probably didn't break their habit of being the first to practice, so they still spent time together.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I believe Yuuko is happy that Mizore found the happiness. If anything, this scan from last month implies that Nozomi, Mizore, Natsuki and Yuuko will hangout together as friend.

IMO, character that got the most benefit from this arc the most is Yuuko, she has developed into such a cute and cool person. Look at images below.

Images

Did you guy notice this reference to the first season?

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I would assume so anyway, a major purpose of their story arc was to get all the second years' issues dealt with and the remaining ones all working together and friends again. Interesting that we go up one year with each arc (more or less).

I did not, actually. I definitely noticed how "It has been an honour serving with you all" Kaori was being, but I didn't connect it with Asuka being the same way in S1. I don't know what to make of it (partly because I never know what to make of Asuka), but it's certainly interesting.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

If this had been the first season, I would have stopped watching by now. I'm here for the music, not adolescent "drama." I'm hanging in hoping we'll get back to the music again. It's time to move on to the competition now, please.

Thank Kamisama they did just that. One of the best single episodes I've seen in 2016.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Sixth

It was kinda sad that Yuko was now completely erased from Mizore's brain. She doesn't care about Yuko anymore. Only Nozomi and more Nozomi. Sad reality.

As has been said, Yuko probably realizes that Mizore and Nozomi need some uninterrupted time together ... Mizore's just come off a minor breakdown, after all.

Apparently, Kumiko had completely stopped talking with Shuichi now before the competition. Can't tell whether it was Kumiko's intention or Kyoani. As for Reina and Kumiko, they should just start dating now. They were clearly inseparable now. "I will play for you, Kumiko" just sealed this whole yuri deal.

The episode director was very careful to show us every sidelong, forlorn, glance Shuuichi threw Kumiko's way. They've also been careful to keep him in the periphery this season, as if to remind us that Kumiko is never very far from Shuuichi's mind. It's a bit like last season, where they threw little bits of focus on Mizore, and even showed Nozomi before formally introducing her, and her attendant drama, in this season.

Basically, Shuuichi hasn't really gone away, and there are eight episodes left in the show. Now that the Nozomi/Mizore thing is resolved, I suspect that there's plenty of narrative room for Shuuichi to make a play for Kumiko. Since anime-Kumiko appears to be about as straight as a bag of corner braces, it'll be fascinating to see how any Shuuichi gambit plays out.

The only thing that bothering me was Azusa. Why is the anime doesn't show her face as I am completely forgot who was she when she called Kumiko. Forced me to google it to find out who was she in the end.

It's actually a nice bit of symbolism. In episode five of last season, Azusa nearly gets Kumiko to go and chat with their old middle school chums, but Kumiko decides she has her new start. In episode 13 of last season, they barely wave at each other before the competition, symbolizing Kumiko's further distancing herself from her past. Now, Azusa's barely a voice on the phone and a pair of legs.

Originally Posted by Arya

^ mmm, I'd be more dubious about Nozomi will to stay with Mizore. I mean, she completely forgot about her and now she is hanging out with her, but for how long? but well I dont' think they put much thought into that, they just wanted to give them a closure on an high note, but I agree it would be more meaningful to have her to be with Yuuko instead of Nozomi. Like to say she finally moved on. And for Yuuko herself.

Mizore's still pretty fixated on Nozomi, but this episode appears to hint that not all is well aboard that particular ship. Mizore appears to be happy with the situation. Nozomi ... maybe not so much. She looked a bit dismayed when Mizore stated that she was going to play for her.

Mind you, Nozomi looks like she's got interesting things going on in her head. She appears to have gotten what she wanted ... i.e. a return to the band. Interestingly, she seems to be the only one of the back-stagers unfazed by the performance. She's either got her eyes closed or she's looking off in the distance, visualizing how things are going ... or should/could be going. She may be looking ahead to the future, when she's going to be a third year. She could be dreaming of getting Asuka or Haruka's job next year.

[Benigmatica]

By the way, I wonder it'll be the time for Asuka Tanaka to reinstate Nozomi Kasaki in the concert band club now that Kitauji has reached the nationals?

On the other hand, will there be another audition for those who weren't selected for the competition? I mean, I want Hazuki Katou to be selected as a tuba player.

[BBOvenGuy]

I should have mentioned sooner than when my niece entered sixth grade this fall, she started playing xylophone in her school's band.

Originally Posted by Sixth

"I will play for you, Kumiko" just sealed this whole yuri deal.

Actually, I thought just the opposite. Kumiko asks if Reina should be playing for Taki, and Reina replies that the solo would come out wrong if she did. Makes it pretty clear that she doesn't feel the same way about Kumiko as she does about Taki.

This episode had plenty of good moments, but its placement in the overall story arc presents a big challenge. The music doesn't have the freshness of last season's finale, and the big climax at Nationals is still to come. It did an admirable job, to be sure, but it didn't make the earth move for me.

I missed hearing Kumiko's thoughts and the other bits of conversation that we got before, and I found it annoying when they reused some of the same shots as before. One thing any musician will tell you is that every performance is different. Every performance is unique. Reina's solo was different this time, and presumably Mizore's was too, but we didn't hear it last time. What makes each performance different is the different things that are going on in your head each time, as well as the different things that are going on in everyone else's heads. The visuals did a good job of showing us hints, but I could have used some words.

And lastly, I would have liked to hear more of the performance Kumiko was watching on TV. It was Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, which is a piece for orchestra and solo piano. How that translates to a concert band arrangement is a mystery to me.

[BleedingUranium]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Reina's solo was different this time, and presumably Mizore's was too, but we didn't hear it last time.

The visuals did a good job of showing us hints, but I could have used some words.

And lastly, I would have liked to hear more of the performance Kumiko was watching on TV. It was Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, which is a piece for orchestra and solo piano. How that translates to a concert band arrangement is a mystery to me.

Not in the show I suppose, but with how many times I've listed to the actual song I could instantly tell Mizore's was different. I expect the idea is that any fan that would care about this sort of thing would already be intimately familiar with the full version.

I have to disagree entirely. I don't think there was anything left to say at all. Show, don't tell.

As with S1's performances (like Funiculì, Funiculà and Scheherazade), we can expect this one to be on the soundtrack. I've heard that said before, that it's not something that really made sense for the instruments playing, which I find interesting from a production standpoint.

[SPARTAN 119]

Just watched eps 4 and 5, and staying with this definitely payed off. The Mizore-Nozomi drama was resolved, and followed up with an excellent concert scene. Feels more like the Hibike! Euphonium of last season, complete with some "Yuri-phonium" moments that had me almost yelling at the screen:

Kiss her.... Kiss her...

DAMMIT KUMIKO (or in one case, Nozomi), JUST KISS HER ALREADY!!!!!!!

[karice67]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

The visuals did a good job of showing us hints, but I could have used some words.

For the parts that were in the film, you can actually hear the differences if you watch this:

Originally Posted by Kamieichi

Crescent moon dance
Movie and S2 comparison

NicoNico

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29961964

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And I'd have to agree with BleedingUranium, the oboe solo we hear in this episode definitely sounds different to the parts with heard in episode 4.

[FractalFusion]

Episode 5 was great. Kansai Competition came earlier than I had expected, and they played the whole Crescent Moon Dance with no interruptions or modifications this time! Of course I wish they just did that the first time in Episode 13 of S1, but it's understandable given that KyoAni was selling the soundtracks at the time and they had to protect their property.

The animation of the band performance obviously reuses a lot of stuff from S1 Ep. 13 but KyoAni would have blown their entire budget on the performance if they did everything from scratch again. So I can tolerate that.

----

So Kansai Competition appears to have a gold/silver/bronze judging just like for Kyoto Competition, and similarly top three advance to Nationals. In other words, just a more prestigious Kyoto Competition with only 23 schools.

I'm not sure of the judging standard used in Kansai (compared to Kyoto). Lala the rumor-spreading girl says that there were three gold and one silver from earlier performances. At the time Kitauji learns of their gold, there was an additional silver and gold from other schools. So that makes five gold, two silver, no bronze, and 16 unknown out of 23. (If we assume that the announcement of the top 3 schools at the end of Ep. 5 was given by performance order, there had to be at least one other gold after Kitauji's performance in order for their reaction to make sense.)

In any case that doesn't really give a good indication of judging level. I'm not even sure why gold/silver/bronze judging exists at this level anyway; that already happened at the previous level and it seems the only real purpose of Kansai (where all competing schools here are the elite in their region) is to determine the three schools that advance to the Nationals.

----

Originally Posted by Sixth

The only thing that bothering me was Azusa. Why is the anime doesn't show her face as I am completely forgot who was she when she called Kumiko. Forced me to google it to find out who was she in the end.

I've sensed for a while (even back in S1) that KyoAni has a strange thing going on with the Rikka school and Kumiko's former bandmate Azusa. Since this is Kumiko/Kitauji's story, Azusa is supposed to be irrelevant. And she is, except that KyoAni has a habit of referring back to her at specific times as if she had always been narratively important (S1 Ep. 13, as well as this episode). I can't help but feel that KyoAni is using Azusa as a contrast to Reina, as someone who undergoes a change in the opposite direction. Which isn't bad, but they could have referred to her a little more, instead of suddenly dropping this right before Kansai. For example:

- it was the first mention of Rikka this season,
- we learn that they made Kansai one day before the competition, as opposed to, say, in S2 Ep. 1,
- the name "Azusa" was spoken for the first time since S1 Ep. 5,
- the second season never clearly attaches an image to her although she does appear in bonus shots like the flashback in S2 Ep. 1 where middle school Kumiko sees middle school Nozomi during her performance as well as this episode in the image above.

Coincidentally, when Kumiko received the phone call, I was joking to myself that it was the perfect time for Azusa to be the one calling in just to remind everyone that she still exists, only for that to actually happen.

----

I still enjoy this anime. I just hope that they have more music, and if they do show drama (well, it's a matter of when), it won't be like Ep. 4. I didn't like the drama there.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

I should have mentioned sooner than when my niece entered sixth grade this fall, she started playing xylophone in her school's band.



Actually, I thought just the opposite. Kumiko asks if Reina should be playing for Taki, and Reina replies that the solo would come out wrong if she did. Makes it pretty clear that she doesn't feel the same way about Kumiko as she does about Taki.

They were clearly joking around, though. However, her solo in this episode is subjectively worse than the one from the last season. "Overheated ballad" might've been a more appropriate way to play the solo. It sounded expressive and emotional at the Kyoto competition. At the Kansai competition, it sounded ... clinical and austere. It's almost as if her and Mizore had exchanged places.

This episode had plenty of good moments, but its placement in the overall story arc presents a big challenge. The music doesn't have the freshness of last season's finale, and the big climax at Nationals is still to come. It did an admirable job, to be sure, but it didn't make the earth move for me.

Yeah, in other forums, people were talking about shedding manly tears over this performance ... but I didn't really get that. I do understand why it had to occur where it did in the show's timeline, and I also understand that KyoAni had the challenge of balancing the preparation for Kansai against the Mizore/Nozomi/Yuuko love triangle in the first few episodes. But I'm not sure if they struck the right balance, since the transition from teen girl angst to rock-your-face-off band performance felt a little jarring.

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Just watched eps 4 and 5, and staying with this definitely payed off. The Mizore-Nozomi drama was resolved, and followed up with an excellent concert scene. Feels more like the Hibike! Euphonium of last season, complete with some "Yuri-phonium" moments that had me almost yelling at the screen:

Kiss her.... Kiss her...

DAMMIT KUMIKO (or in one case, Nozomi), JUST KISS HER ALREADY!!!!!!!

It would be pretty neat if something other than the hetero option won in the end. Although you do have to feel bad for Kumiko. She can't really "just kiss" Reina. On one hand, Reina repeatedly rubs her deep, long-running, heterosexual crush on teacher in Kumiko's face. On the other hand, Reina acts a bit jealous towards Shuuichi, and appears a bit suspicious (and possibly jealous) of all the time Kumiko spends running off to advance the show's plot. Reina's too uncommitted for Kumiko to really be completely "out" with her, so I can't fault her for holding back.

The whole Nozomi/Mizore thing is tragic. Mizore's absolutely fixated on Nozomi, to the point where she's entirely oblivious to the fact that Yuuko is really quite fond of her. Nozomi ... not so much. Nozomi seems to have her eye on the band, and her place in it. I can't really say that she's ignorant of Mizore's feelings toward her. I don't think one can be emotionally ignorant and instill the kind of familiarity (note the complete lack of honorifics between Yuuko, Mizore, Natsuki, and Nozomi) and loyalty that Nozomi brings out in the people she associates with. Natsuki puts herself on the line and picks a fight with her seemingly all-powerful section lead to advance Nozomi's cause. She, a wet-behind-the-ears greenhorn also antagonized the third-years in Nozomi's defense ... an upset of Japanese cultural norms that shocked Kumiko when she heard about it. The bandmates who came to Kitauji with Nozomi all followed her straight to the gates of Hell, when they quit en-masse.

Nozomi probably knows about Mizore's feelings, but she doesn't really reciprocate them. She also doesn't yet have the maturity and experience to know how to really handle them.

[AB079]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

I should have mentioned sooner than when my niece entered sixth grade this fall, she started playing xylophone in her school's band.



Actually, I thought just the opposite. Kumiko asks if Reina should be playing for Taki, and Reina replies that the solo would come out wrong if she did. Makes it pretty clear that she doesn't feel the same way about Kumiko as she does about Taki.

Finally someone who's not biased with the yuribait. You're right about that scene between Kumiko and Reina, it shows how different is the way Reina feels about them and at the same time shows the different perspective she has for those 2.

Kumiko is basically someone who will always support Reina no matter what, it is what the best friends does. On the other hand, it seems that Reina still has a huge number of doubts about Taki, probably because there is nothing sealed or developed between them.

I wonder if some day that relationship is going to reach a different stage.... for now I can't see the TakiXReina ship sealed this season, even the KumikoXSuichi is more viable but I don't give a damn about that, I just want to see Taki being happy with Reina, that guy went through a really dark moment in the past.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by AB079

Finally someone who's not biased with the yuribait.

I know there are folks who've read the source material, and I know the source material developed the relationships in a different manner.

However, since a company like Yen Press has, so far, declined to bring the novel outside of the Japanese market; and the only fan translation of the series has barely completed chapter one of the first novel ... for some of us who like to analyze and discuss the material, we only have the anime adaptation to work with. And for whatever reason, the anime seems to want to portray Kumiko as a closeted lesbian. She spends an awful lot of time practicing "male gaze,"teasing her totally-not-her-girlfriend Reina when she directs conventional "dating" behaviors at her, being very bland in her support of Reina's crush on Taki, and reminiscing about that one time on the mountain ...

Of course, the meta-story is, indeed, likely to be the Japanese expression of homophobia known as the yuribait ... the otaku audience is going to be titillated a bit, and then their fragile masculinity is going to be coddled, and they will be reassured that not being into men is a "phase" and Kumiko's going to "grow up" to (presumably) want Shuuichi's ... trombone. Even though Shuuichi's done almost nothing for the anime but hang around the edges and cast wistful glances Kumiko's way.

By relegating him to the extreme edges of the narrative, like it has, the show's set itself up in such a way that it's going to have to work extra-hard to convincingly have Shuuichi playing his trombone in Kumiko's concert hall.

Okay, that was truly awful. I'll show myself out now.

I wonder if some day that relationship is going to reach a different stage.... for now I can't see the TakiXReina ship sealed this season, even the KumikoXSuichi is more viable but I don't give a damn about that, I just want to see Taki being happy with Reina, that guy went through a really dark moment in the past.

Reina can chase Taki all she wants ... in like six years. Let her get some life experience and maturity under her belt first. Right now, her life experience consists of ... being a child prodigy in trumpet. I don't think she has the emotional maturity necessary to really provide the kind of support Taki needs. Becoming a widower cut him really deeply, to the point where his friends (at least Hashimoto, anyway,) seemed relieved that he took the job at Kitauji and started getting into music instruction.

[AB079]

Originally Posted by GMT

I know there are folks who've read the source material, and I know the source material developed the relationships in a different manner.

However, since a company like Yen Press has, so far, declined to bring the novel outside of the Japanese market; and the only fan translation of the series has barely completed chapter one of the first novel ... for some of us who like to analyze and discuss the material, we only have the anime adaptation to work with. And for whatever reason, the anime seems to want to portray Kumiko as a closeted lesbian. She spends an awful lot of time practicing "male gaze,"teasing her totally-not-her-girlfriend Reina when she directs conventional "dating" behaviors at her, being very bland in her support of Reina's crush on Taki, and reminiscing about that one time on the mountain ...

Of course, the meta-story is, indeed, likely to be the Japanese expression of homophobia known as the yuribait ... the otaku audience is going to be titillated a bit, and then their fragile masculinity is going to be coddled, and they will be reassured that not being into men is a "phase" and Kumiko's going to "grow up" to (presumably) want Shuuichi's ... trombone. Even though Shuuichi's done almost nothing for the anime but hang around the edges and cast wistful glances Kumiko's way.

By relegating him to the extreme edges of the narrative, like it has, the show's set itself up in such a way that it's going to have to work extra-hard to convincingly have Shuuichi playing his trombone in Kumiko's concert hall.

Okay, that was truly awful. I'll show myself out now.

That's basically something Kyoani did with the source, I know what is going on but can't say anything here since is the anime thread but all what I can tell you is that you're right about what is the show trying to imply.

Now I want to be clear about this, I don't care about Yuri on a series because sometimes the story is what overcome that and make certain show enjoyable. The problem with Hibike is how Kyoani focused too much on that "lesbian" aspect on season 1, reaching a point where the yuri emphasis was more important than the story itself when it should have been otherwise. Obviously there are lots of people who can separate those 2 things and focus more on the story but they are very rare to find.

On season 2 we get more focus on what really matters and that's the internal problems between some characters, backgrounds and the Nationals. That being said there is a mayor problem that Kyoani needs to deal in the best way possible, everyone knows this season we're going to see (maybe) Kumiko and Suichi being a couple or at least start dating, but if Kyoani decides to show us that, then is going to feel so forced and unreal thanks to what they did on Season 1 and part of Season 2 that nobody is going to buy it and probably label it as bullshit (which IMO is what's going to happen).

Good to see this second season is more balanced, Kyoani is not going full yuri and changing the story to sell more and instead of that we're getting more music, Nationals and what's even more important at least for me, showing how the girls are growing.

Originally Posted by GMT

Reina can chase Taki all she wants ... in like six years. Let her get some life experience and maturity under her belt first. Right now, her life experience consists of ... being a child prodigy in trumpet. I don't think she has the emotional maturity necessary to really provide the kind of support Taki needs. Becoming a widower cut him really deeply, to the point where his friends (at least Hashimoto, anyway,) seemed relieved that he took the job at Kitauji and started getting into music instruction.

Yeah I think the same, reina is too immature for him right now, is just that Taki is one of those very interesting characters that deserve more screentime and now that we got a nice piece of his past I like him even more. Reina really needs to grow up more to become a proper woman for Taki, I see that future possible between them tho.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by GMT

*sigh*

Don't worry about it. Maybe I'm just being juvenile but I laughed at those euphemisms. My hat's off to you sir