No Game No Life - generic discussion thread (NO SPOILERS)

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Dunno about that. Sora helped out the red haired girl despite not having to all and for nothing in return.

Aite, that's true, but once his kindness doesn't hold him back later down the line, I'm good.

The ones who can't bring themselves to dirty their hands & their kindness or conscience that hinders them, those are the types that I hate the most. I also detest useless or powerless MCs.

Once Sora retains this sneaky side of his, cheating & his smartass attitude, I can enjoy this series to the fullest. Don't get me wrong, I know that character development may change his personality a bit, but I'd like for him to retain these key aspects of his character & not outright drop them later on.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by kyou13

If I'm not wrong, the anime didn't give that many hints on how he actually cheated or analyzed. It's more or less feel like: he's a genius, so naturally he can pull off that kind of stuffs; just accept it, there won't be an explanation....
Well, maybe it's just me

There isn't supposed to be "evidence".

The point of that scene is that he did it without getting caught.

There is absolutely no way anyone could a Royal Straight that easily, so the only two explanations are A)he is that lucky or the more reasonable B)he's cheating.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by kyou13

If I'm not wrong, the anime didn't give that many hints on how he actually cheated or analyzed. It's more or less feel like: he's a genius, so naturally he can pull off that kind of stuffs; just accept it, there won't be an explanation....
Well, maybe it's just me

Actually, its heavily implied that he did cheat. His short conversation with his sister afterwards, supports that. He's just so smooth that no one noticed.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Aite, that's true, but once his kindness doesn't hold him back later down the line, I'm good.

The ones who can't bring themselves to dirty their hands & their kindness or conscience that hinders them, those are the types that I hate the most. I also detest useless or powerless MCs.

Once Sora retains this sneaky side of his, cheating & his smartass attitude, I can enjoy this series to the fullest. Don't get me wrong, I know that character development may change his personality a bit, but I'd like for him to retain these key aspects of his character & not outright drop them later on.

What if he helps only to demand some favor or payment later?


I doubt he is that "kind" to begin with and I doubt he will change for better, his sister is enough for him.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Birdway

What of he helps only to demand some favor or payment later?


I doubt he is that "kind" to begin with and I dount he will change for better, his sister is enough for him.

I could definitely live with that.

He probably will change later since character development is needed in stories, but once the change isn't severely character-changing, all is well. For the most part, he may probably drop the lone wolf aspect & start making friends or his kindness may start affecting his character later (I don't want the latter, to tell the honest truth).

*I have no prior knowledge of the source. So I'm just going for the ride.

[kyou13]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

There isn't supposed to be "evidence".

The point of that scene is that he did it without getting caught.

There is absolutely no way anyone could a Royal Straight that easily, so the only two explanations are A)he is that lucky or the more reasonable B)he's cheating.

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Actually, its heavily implied that he did cheat. His short conversation with his sister afterwards, supports that. He's just so smooth that no one noticed.

Well, maybe I'm too used to Liar Game's narration,in which they always show how the characters pull off their tricks or "read" others' minds, so this time it's a little hard to sit down and accept that the character is just that good.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by kyou13

Well, maybe I'm too used to Liar Game's narration,in which they always show how the characters pull off their tricks or "read" others' minds, so this time it's a little hard to sit down and accept that the character is just that good.

Was it on episode 1? Y es or not?

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by kyou13

Well, maybe I'm too used to Liar Game's narration,in which they always show how the characters pull off their tricks or "read" others' minds, so this time it's a little hard to sit down and accept that the character is just that good.

Actually the novel does do that, except...it's bland. So skipping it is a good thing.

Again the author wasn't very good at those type of concepts in his writing, so it's better this way that you get a nice little package without the "could have done it better" moments.

It's more or less spelled out in the 1st 10 minutes but:
brother : expert at analyzing people
sister : expert at analyzing data

Together they were able to beat the god of games...

It only took him seconds to pick out the cheating accomplice in a room. A card game and an innkeeper need very little explanation.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Don't see how that is case when 1) This pair is only good at games, and 2) even at that they admit to cheating their way to win. We haven't even gotten into the whole NEET thing either.

They're not just good at games, though. They're the uncontested champions in several highly competitive video games, and one of them a grandmaster-level chess player. That implies not only incredible talent, but also dedication and discipline, which they don't really show.

Also a NEET is supposed to be unsocial, yet the dude shows remarkable social skills, able to read people at a glance, intimidate, control his emotions, and even have a good sense of humor. Basically the opposite personality than what his background would suggest.

The only admitted to cheating in the poker match, right? In that case though, cheating is just part of the game. A single hand of poker without any cheating wouldn't even be a game, it'd just be a coinflip.

Anyway, there are too many blatant Mary Sue traits. Being an anime character you can get away with a lot of crazy stuff, but these two have gone past the point where I could connect with them or be interested in their development.

I suppose I don't really know their backgrounds though. The impressions from the first episode could turn out to be completely wrong, in any case don't spoil me because I want to believe in their redemption for a while. Only talking about my current impressions.

[Xacual]

A NEET is not unsocial, it just means not in education or training. A Hikkikomori is a shut in and thus unsocial. Sora was not labled as such, he was labeled as a NEET, his sister was labeled a shut in. It's in their little introduction thing at the start.

Also even in the LN it never explained how he cheated here, it just wasn't important enough for that.

[randomxd]

Do you remember that the challenged party can choose what will be the conditions of the game they'll be playing?
If you play in your own turf, you can bet whatever you want because you know you'll win and for "Kuuhaku", defeat isn't an option.

For the poker match, I liked that the trick wasn't explained because Sora cheated in a manner that EVEN the watcher cannot realise.

Spoiler for about betting their lives:

The bet was well-balanced because they didn't know about the real-deal with the "always-must-have" in the fantasy-setting called "magic-san".
If they knew about it, they wouldn't have bet so easily their lives, but there aren't any humans that can use magic, so they were lucky.

[c933103]

watched 1 episodes of it, feel good and purchased its novel. Now reading.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Anyway, there are too many blatant Mary Sue traits. Being an anime character you can get away with a lot of crazy stuff, but these two have gone past the point where I could connect with them or be interested in their development.

Using Mary Sue is a very bad argument because the definition of a hero has to be exceeding the normal, aka fantasy.

In this case you are throwing in 16 magical races, with a god there. Mary sue never had it so bad, because even using the term Mary sue is wrong here.

Mary sue is an insert character or more exactly an author's pet character, but in the surest sense, this time of category is consider a "battle anime" (puzzle battle).

There is no Mary sue because their opponents are equally Mary sue level to move the plot.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by Eclipze

You don't go in blind like that betting with your lives on the line to win one small bag of coins.

Go watch Akagi sometime.

[Kinematics]

As for the comparison with how Liar Game explains things -- Liar Game spends paaaages explaining all the little details of every little trick, every step of the way. It's definitely interesting to read, and it's -possible- it could be done well in an anime (would take a really good director, though), but there's no way you could fit something of that detail level into a first episode that's already pressed for time.

On the chess game -- they provided exactly as much information as was needed to explain that game. Maybe it would be cool for someone obsessed with chess to see the full game, and spend time analyzing it, but not for the vast majority of people. On the other hand, what they -did- provide was plenty sufficient to explain what was going on in that game and how it progressed to anyone with even a moderate degree of experience in chess. For anyone with little to no experience, dragging it out would have meant nothing.

To put it simply, Shiro would have lost that game on her own. She can play the -game- perfectly, perfect for playing vs a computer, or for anyone playing within the bounds of logic, but she has no skill when playing against -people- (which, despite Sora's explanation, is actually a significant part of the challenges of high-end matches). Sora, on the other hand, can play against people, but doesn't have the logical skills to beat a true master of the game. It took both of them working together to overcome Tet, and even then only by the skin of their teeth. That's what was important for them -- it was a game (which they live for), and it was an actual real challenge to them that neither alone could have beaten (which is virtually unheard of for them).

As such, I can see just how such a game would play out -- perhaps not move-by-move, but the general ebb and flow of how the game would progress is very easy to imagine. The anime provided exactly as much information as necessary to achieve that end, without wasting time fretting over the details.

As for the card game -- I'm delighted to have a puzzle to work on. Given the nature of this series, I can't imagine the author completely handwaving how Sora won, even if it was never explicitly spelled out. So for me, it's a puzzle to be figured out, even if I don't know if I'll ever be able to come up with the answer. Not spelling every last thing out for the reader/viewer doesn't always mean bad writing. Sometime what's not explicitly said can be just as interesting as what was.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Kinematics

To put it simply, Shiro would have lost that game on her own. She can play the -game- perfectly, perfect for playing vs a computer, or for anyone playing within the bounds of logic, but she has no skill when playing against -people- (which, despite Sora's explanation, is actually a significant part of the challenges of high-end matches). Sora, on the other hand, can play against people, but doesn't have the logical skills to beat a true master of the game. It took both of them working together to overcome Tet, and even then only by the skin of their teeth. That's what was important for them -- it was a game (which they live for), and it was an actual real challenge to them that neither alone could have beaten (which is virtually unheard of for them).

I think either shiro or sora could beat a "standard" chess champion and probably a grand champion for shiro, by themselves.

Their specs are quite high, and there is a level of "brute force" that applies to either. A computer can and has beaten grand champions simply by it's processing power in move analysis, and shiro is said to surpass that. Sora probably has a similar spec only in physiological warfare.

But considering [ ] is one, they probably almost always fight as a team because there's no such thing as losing to them.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by kukuru

Their specs are quite high, and there is a level of "brute force" that applies to either. A computer can and has beaten grand champions simply by it's processing power in move analysis, and shiro is said to surpass that. Sora probably has a similar spec only in physiological warfare.

Don't you mean psychology instead of physiology?

However yes, Shiro's specialty seems to be analytical skill that deals with logic or programs. ie. She can only analyze things that obey a particular order or follow a pattern.

In Sora's case, he seems to have a very in-depth understanding of the human mind & behavioral patterns. In turn, this allows him to analyze a person with accuracy, on par to Shiro's analytical ability.

TL;DR, One sibling specializes in logical analysis & the other specializes in the analysis of the "human factor" ie. Illogical or unusual persons.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by kukuru

Using Mary Sue is a very bad argument because the definition of a hero has to be exceeding the normal, aka fantasy.

In this case you are throwing in 16 magical races, with a god there. Mary sue never had it so bad, because even using the term Mary sue is wrong here.

Mary sue is an insert character or more exactly an author's pet character, but in the surest sense, this time of category is consider a "battle anime" (puzzle battle).

There is no Mary sue because their opponents are equally Mary sue level to move the plot.

Oh, I just use the term for characters with lack of weaknesses and realistic development. And even though I say realistic, it is an anime with supernatural elements, so if their characters make sense in the story's setting, then it's fine. And while heroes can be allowed some superpowers, they must be proportionately challenged.

Currently they seem to have unexplained superpowers in a real world setting, and rather than having been thrust into the adventure of their lifetimes, they appear as if they've ascended to heaven.

Originally Posted by Xacual

A NEET is not unsocial, it just means not in education or training. A Hikkikomori is a shut in and thus unsocial. Sora was not labled as such, he was labeled as a NEET, his sister was labeled a shut in. It's in their little introduction thing at the start.

Okay, but I'd still say someone who only plays games and denounces real life should be unsocial to the extreme.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Don't you mean psychology instead of physiology?

However yes, Shiro's specialty seems to be analytical skill that deals with logic or programs. ie. She can only analyze things that obey a particular order or follow a pattern.

In Sora's case, he seems to have a very in-depth understanding of the human mind & behavioral patterns. In turn, this allows him to analyze a person with accuracy, on par to Shiro's analytical ability.

TL;DR, One sibling specializes in logical analysis & the other specializes in the analysis of the "human factor" ie. Illogical or unusual persons.

It is most likely a two fold power since while analyzing seems to their base speciality they are also highly (self) train to use that as a weapon to do battle (gaming). Using their feet even.

From the start sora probably already knew cheating was going to happen at a glance so he was fully able to counter attack by first baiting the opponent into a scenario, use his sister to devise the perfect counter attack with real time simulations the executing it with trained skills of a gamer.

If they weren't so neet they would make excellent Con artists like the mentalist.

[Birdway]

There is a reason why they are shut it characters, society isn't always supportive of people who stands out too much.