[Manga] Chapter 230 Discussion

[socomberetta]

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, did the Kyuubi really say Naruto should thank the 4th? Seems a little bit like a strange reaction... shouldn't the Kyuubi hate the 4th for sealing him, so why speaking well about him?

In the Inane translation, the Kyuubi states that Naruto should be thanking him because he was the reason why Naruto is so strong despite being weak(in his opinion, not mine ). He didnt mention anything about thanking the Fourth.

[Gevurah]

Originally Posted by socomberetta

In the Inane translation, the Kyuubi states that Naruto should be thanking him because he was the reason why Naruto is so strong despite being weak(in his opinion, not mine ). He didnt mention anything about thanking the Fourth.

True, but in the texual translation that was found on narutofan.com, the last statement that Kyuubi made to Naruto was that, "you should be thanking the Fourth for sealing me..." or something like that to an extent.

Again, the issues with translations is that in a sense, no one is either right or wrong. It's all how you perceive it.

With that, both statements do hold some weight. The one where Kyuubi is saying that Naruto should thank the Fourth definately sounds like something Kyuubi would say while he is giving him loads of power. Also, with Inane's translation, that can also be true if Kyuubi is making the same statement as Jiraiya did when he told Naruto that he (being Naruto) and the Fourth were stubborn. Personally, I like the other former quote better because it really fits the scene.

In terms of "awakening" on Naruto's level, it could seriously be anything. If he's continually being consumed by Kyuubi's power and losing control of himself, than this is not an "awakening." For Naruto to awaken, he really has to find a way to grasp this power and control it, and then realizing what he has, instead of going into his usual routine of going berserk and attacking without putting some mental effort into the equation. Maybe he'll see things from Kyuubi's mind about the Fourth and perhaps gain some new powers (or hopefully a better understanding of how to control and manipulate them) in the end.

[Steffa]

yeah new powers for naruto and so it ends the bloody kage bushin no jutsu
i am sick of that move

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Asmedaus

It seems that Sasuke's "Awakening" is not only his fully developed sharingan eyes, but also his psyche being very close to that of Itachi. Itachi, we are lead to believe, killed the whole clan to test himself. Sasuke believes that true strength comes from being alone and therefore he will shatter the bond he and Naruto have in order to obtain this "strength". The ironic thing is that the reason he wants the strength is to avenage his family, yet he needs to kill his current "family" in order to accomplish said goal.

Actually it's even more twisted than that, Sasuke thinks that pain and sadness make you strong and thus that to kill Naruto -his friend- will make him even stronger in order to kill Itachi.
Thought which seems to fit perfectly with the way to obtain the Mangekyou.

The Uchiha brothers are some twisted buddies

[Deth moad ue]

i think this can go a couple of ways:

Naruto can attack sasuke at high speed. Sasuke can react quickly enough to punch where naruto will be, but the speed of the impact shatters sasuke's limb and incapacitates naruto.

Naruto attacks sasuke. sasuke preps for a counter (kick maybe?) and goes low to give it more umph. as naruto rushes in, he slips on a puddle or trips on a rock, and flies headfirst into sasuke's face (which is now in prime position due to sharingan movement reading) knocking them both out.

[I think] Sharingan cannot see where the foe intends to go, only where his footing, speed, body position, and balance will likely lead him. Linear foes (lee for instance) without a major speed advantage would get read, similar to what kimimaro was able to due sans sharingan.

The trick, then, would be to use moves/stances that can lead to a number of different attacks. Drunken boxing, seems random, but it's really about options. Boxers can read moves as well...the right side of the foes body leans back, right shoulder drops, and right knee braces slightly, usually means a right uppercut is on the way.

I wonder if sharingan would see multiple finishes when fighting a person using drunken boxing or something similar. A multitude of ways the foes could attack....Then the sharingan user would have to choose an attack to counter and hope what he's countering is what is actually being thrown.

[_Sin_]

Originally Posted by wilecoyot

hm didnt read every page here cause there are too many
like people agree ...this building up is taking forever and looks like DB or DBZ...
but will just have to wait and see what happens...
I am more concerned about one thing Nine-Tails said: It siad that Naruto is like the Fourth...ok so does that mean the Fourth hid his Jutsu inside Naruto and he will be able to use it or is Naruto an instant genius of the situation and become stronger and cleaver is danger enviroment is rising up or what?? Or can Nine Tails do Sharingan too ) that would be fun hehehe...since is one of the powerful deamons...wouldnt be suprised if it had one or two cards in it sleave.

Aw, we are talking about the Kyuubi/Naruto/4th relationship now? I'll just quote myself and I hope that it will not get ignored this time... again

Originally Posted by _Sin_

Why is it that everyone is thinking that using the Kyuubi chakra in his berserk form is cheap? Just because they are no obvious drawbacks? I think they are: Like zarkand I noticed that the cage of Kyuubi has cracks on it which were not there before (at least not in that quantity/severity). It seems that whenever Naruto is going berserk the Kyuubi chakra is forcing it's way out and damaging the seal over time.


Furhtermore, did you give the statement:
Kyuubi:"The one who sealed me... the fourth Hokage, you are both alike" a thought? I guess the similarity between Naruto and the Fourth is that they will not give up even if it costs them their lives (Fourth - Death God Seal) and Naruto (allowing himself to go über-berserk p.18-19). I do not think that Naruto will die just yet but that he will take severe damage from the fight - not from Sasuke though - but from the Kyuubi (chakra) since Naruto is using more chakra than his body can cope with (similarities to the Curse Seal anyone?). Alternatively it will unseal Kyuubi if Naruto does not get stopped - oh, how convenient that Kakashi is on his way .

PS: Kyuubi is a cunning fox, isn't he? Waiting for the moment when Naruto is weak-minded, then taking over.

[yinstro]

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, did the Kyuubi really say Naruto should thank the 4th? Seems a little bit like a strange reaction... shouldn't the Kyuubi hate the 4th for sealing him, so why speaking well about him?

to be honest i dont if kyuubi really hates the fourth, or naruto, for demon fox, this may be amusing, also we really dont know exactly how the 4rth beat the demon fox

[Hideki Keiji]

Originally Posted by yinstro

to be honest i dont if kyuubi really hates the fourth, or naruto, for demon fox, this may be amusing, also we really dont know exactly how the 4rth beat the demon fox

I can just see it now...
Fourth: Don't you ever get tired of destroying everything?
Kyuubi: Well, actually, yes. I really am bored.
Fourth: I have an idea. I can seal you in a little human child, and then you can experience being a human.
Kyuubi: Now that's an idea! That does sounds amusing.

[gruvy_qc]

You can hate somebody and respect him. An exemple: I hate Hitler for what he's done, but I respect him for his high Iq and tactics. It's maybe the same thing for the kyuubi. Or maybe he's getting used to be in Naruto and having fun to beat people to the pulp with Naruto's body....

[OMchan]

I'll just post this here because it's manga related.

Spoiler for Sasuke level 2 pic?:

I found a pic of Sasuke in level 2 form. I'm not sure if the pic is real or not, but here you go.



Oh, and while I'm at it, does anyone happen to know what he's saying?

[CyberPunk]

whoa...where did you get this?

[salamando]

He is going super sayian with the hair going totally white.

[MidoriShinobi]

I'm pretty sure that's a fan picture, but Sasuke did have white long hair when he first came out of the barrel. I'll see if I can't find that picture.

[m83b4]

Originally Posted by salamando

He is going super sayian with the hair going totally white.

LOL, SSJ3

[gibits]

Originally Posted by Deth moad ue

i think this can go a couple of ways:

Naruto can attack sasuke at high speed. Sasuke can react quickly enough to punch where naruto will be, but the speed of the impact shatters sasuke's limb and incapacitates naruto.

Naruto attacks sasuke. sasuke preps for a counter (kick maybe?) and goes low to give it more umph. as naruto rushes in, he slips on a puddle or trips on a rock, and flies headfirst into sasuke's face (which is now in prime position due to sharingan movement reading) knocking them both out.

[I think] Sharingan cannot see where the foe intends to go, only where his footing, speed, body position, and balance will likely lead him. Linear foes (lee for instance) without a major speed advantage would get read, similar to what kimimaro was able to due sans sharingan.

The trick, then, would be to use moves/stances that can lead to a number of different attacks. Drunken boxing, seems random, but it's really about options. Boxers can read moves as well...the right side of the foes body leans back, right shoulder drops, and right knee braces slightly, usually means a right uppercut is on the way.

I wonder if sharingan would see multiple finishes when fighting a person using drunken boxing or something similar. A multitude of ways the foes could attack....Then the sharingan user would have to choose an attack to counter and hope what he's countering is what is actually being thrown.

I wonder the same thing. Does it really see the future or is it a calculated prediction based on posture, footing and timing? If its the former than no a amount fients and change in pace will trick it, but if it is the latter then Sasuke's eyes could be used against him. If sasuke becomes too reliant on his eyes then a simple jeft jab fient, right hook should hit him on the kisser (or for fencers: fient 4, attack 6) providing that it was a convincing fient.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by gibits

I wonder the same thing. Does it really see the future or is it a calculated prediction based on posture, footing and timing? If its the former than no a amount fients and change in pace will trick it, but if it is the latter then Sasuke's eyes could be used against him. If sasuke becomes too reliant on his eyes then a simple jeft jab fient, right hook should hit him on the kisser (or for fencers: fient 4, attack 6) providing that it was a convincing fient.

The Sharingan doesn't see the future but it sees through Taijutsu, it 'reads' the fighting style of the opponent.

If a Sharingan user had already completely read your Taijutsu then a feint is useless because it's simply part of your fighting style.

[_Sin_]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The Sharingan doesn't see the future but it sees through Taijutsu, it 'reads' the fighting style of the opponent.

If a Sharingan user had already completely read your Taijutsu then a feint is useless because it's simply part of your fighting style.

I'm of the opinion that Sharingan allows you too see the attacker in slow motion/still images (depends on the speed of the attacker, naturally) and that's why feints etc are useless.

Sharingan=Fly Vision
Sasuke=Fly Br... ah, nevermind

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by _Sin_

I'm of the opinion that Sharingan allows you too see the attacker in slow motion/still images (depends on the speed of the attacker, naturally) and that's why feints etc are useless.

Frankly I never saw the interest of this slow motion stuff, the last chapter precisely showed how the predicting ability of the Sharingan works, it read and analyze the moves of the opponent and shows to its user what the next moves of the opponent will be.

Given that the Sharingan doesn't see into the future it must be done by analyzing the way of moving of the body of the opponent, how he attacked before, etc.
And with this informations it sees the pattern behind the moves and thus allows to react slightly before the attack is done.

Now can someone could find a trick to lure the analyzing capacity?
Difficult because the Sharingan could most probably see through the trick as it see through any Gen/Nin/Taijutsu.

But maybe that depends of the ability of the user of the Sharingan?

[Kakashi-nindogs]

Originally Posted by OMchan

I'll just post this here because it's manga related.

Spoiler for Sasuke level 2 pic?:

I found a pic of Sasuke in level 2 form. I'm not sure if the pic is real or not, but here you go.



Oh, and while I'm at it, does anyone happen to know what he's saying?

woah sasuke looks pretty crazy there

[gibits]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The Sharingan doesn't see the future but it sees through Taijutsu, it 'reads' the fighting style of the opponent.

If a Sharingan user had already completely read your Taijutsu then a feint is useless because it's simply part of your fighting style.

When u say "your Taijutsu" do you mean a style of fighting or your style of fighting? I ask because fients and decieves are part of any martial art. Just because you know it exists doesn't mean u know when your oppenent will use them. But if you mean a personal fighting style then yeah it would be useless.

Then again as long as i've been reading naruto he never gets too tricky with his attacks, so its kinda a moot point.