Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[Reckoner]

I love how after so long after this VN has been released, the details of the story are still speculated and argued to no end.

Should be interesting to see what happens when fate/zero comes out .

[Cherry_Lover]

Fate/Zero is already out, just not in animated form (and the translation isn't quite finished yet).

[Reckoner]

I realize this, but the wide audience that Fate/Stay night is far greater than the select few who speak Japanese on these forums which enabled them to read the LN's of fate/zero which are still not fully translated. For many of us, including people who played the VN, this will be our first contact with fate/zero beyond spoilers.

[Cherry_Lover]

Well, like I said, the light novel is actually mostly translated now (in fact, I believe it is entirely translated, but I think it still requires a bit of editing).

[RadiantBeam]

Mmmm, I'll personally wait for the anime. I started reading the light novel, but for some reason it couldn't hold my attention.

[Cherry_Lover]

Yeah, same here, actually.

Honestly, the story doesn't interest me that much. I know it's going to end badly before I even start, and I'm not overly bothered about reading about lots of servants awesomely kicking each others asses whilst their masters run around like headless chickens fucking up not only their own lives, but also those of their family and loved ones....

It's the sort of thing that does probably work better animated, although I suspect I still won't like it much (and, if they cut out Kariya's subplot, I reserve the right to rage furiously...).

[mAc Chaos]

I read Fate/Zero. It was great, so you should still read it even if you are unsure.

[Cherry_Lover]

I've read some of it (and, indeed, I do need to read more, because I'm (very slowly) writing a fanfic based on it), but the idea behind it (a bunch of unsympathetic characters (except Kariya, who gets fucked over royally) fighting a bunch of battles) doesn't interest me much, however awesome those battles may be.

[mAc Chaos]

They're not all unsympathetic. You get to like them as the story goes on.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

They're not all unsympathetic. You get to like them as the story goes on.

Well, Tokiomi is an arrogant twat, and the only way he could make me like him is if he were to kick down the door to the Matou house, turn Zouken into fish food, grab Sakura and take her home (after a trip to Kotomine to get the worms removed). Kariya I sympathise a lot with, but at the same time he's an idiot who was doomed by canon to fail miserably, so it's hard to get into his story except in a "God this is tragic" kind of way. Kiritsugu is a little sympathetic, but he's basically MoS Shirou, so I find it hard to like him in any real way. As for the rest, Kotomine is Kotomine, El-Melloi is an asshole, Caster's master is just an outright monster and Waver I think is decent enough, but at the same time he did choose to enter that war, and he doesn't really have much to be sympathetic about.

Plus, the story as a whole is just outright depressing. The battles are pointless (because no-one can get the Grail and the outcome is a foregone conclusion) and there isn't even the slightest spot of happiness in the entire story (not least because we already know that Sakura isn't going to get freed and Kiritsugu won't see Ilya again, so even when it looks like they're getting close there's no joy in there).

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

I read Fate/Zero. It was great, so you should still read it even if you are unsure.

Mm, something about the flow threw me off, and now I don't have the time to get back into it. So I'm just going to wait for the anime, and if anything gets cut out, I'll check out the novel.

[LostHanyou]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

They're not all unsympathetic. You get to like them as the story goes on.

I agree. I found Kotomine to be a interesting if not sympathetic character. And it's not like servants can't be sympathetic either - there's a lot more to them than just battling. Saber is a perfect example of this, and Rider has his moments too.

But I guess I see why it's far less emotionally driven then Fate/Stay Night. I actually cried a few times reading Fate/Stay :/

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by LostHanyou

I agree. I found Kotomine to be a interesting if not sympathetic character.

Interesting, yes, but anything sympathetic about him was already covered in HF.

Overall, I think that actually sums Zero up. It's interesting as a prequel to FSN, but as a story in its own right I probably wouldn't bother with it.

And it's not like servants can't be sympathetic either - there's a lot more to them than just battling. Saber is a perfect example of this, and Rider has his moments too.

Well, that sums up the problem, really. With the exception of Kariya, pretty much all of the characters in Zero who are actually sympathetic have their sympathetic side covered thoroughly in FSN. Saber's situation is sympathetic, yes, but we already know that, and all Fate/Zero does is flesh it out a bit.

But I guess I see why it's far less emotionally driven then Fate/Stay Night. I actually cried a few times reading Fate/Stay :/

Actually, I think I cried almost as much at Zero as I did at FSN. The only difference is that, in the case of Zero, it was because of hindsight. I cried at basically every scene involving Ilya and Sakura because I knew it wasn't going to turn out OK (not yet, anyway and, indeed, one or the other never will, unless Nasu gives Sakura a good end in Fate and stops Ilya dying in a year). In HF, I didn't get that upset because I knew that, as depressing as Sakura's situation was, it would turn out OK in the end (oddly enough, I find it more upsetting when I re-read it than I did the first time), so the only bits I truly cried at (first time around, anyway) were Ilya's death and the Normal end.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by LostHanyou

I actually cried a few times reading Fate/Stay :/

Same here. Heaven's Feel was pure hell for me because whenever I wasn't cheering at the awesomness or depressed over how the situation sucked, I was crying because characters I liked were dying.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Same here. Heaven's Feel was pure hell for me because whenever I wasn't cheering at the awesomness or depressed over how the situation sucked, I was crying because characters I liked were dying.

Exactly, and for some of us, due to vague ends, the other ends are pure hell as well in hindsight. It's very emotional.

[Haak]

To honest didn't cry once but I guess that's probably because I never cry at anything. DX

I did sort of choke up for Ilya's death in UBW and both endings to HF (The Normal Ending because it was so heartbreaking and the True Ending because it was all over .)

[Seitsuki]

Yes, but the game doesn't say "she picked up a piece of shrapnel from her sword and tried to stab Sakura with it", it says "she takes out a knife she had hidden behind her back".

Oh, THAT. Pretty sure they stated it was the Azoth dagger she got from Kirei and carried around everywhere. Note the "everywhere", which conveniently includes the cavern of the birthplace of the sum of all evils in the world. A girl's gotta have some protection down there.

Personally I found Kiritsugu to be one of the more sympathetic characters in F/Z. He's always lived alone, without emotional ties, then when he finally finds a sliver of happiness in Ilya and Irisviel everything gets taken away from him as he is forced to follow his ideals to the end. He's portrayed by Shirou as some awesome ideal hero of justice in F/SN but we see in both series just how well that turns out. Oh Nasu you cynical bastard

But yeah, nothing really compares to Ilya. To live without hope, knowing she will die either as a Master or as the body of the grail, and even if she somehow manages to escape that end her lifespan is pathetically short. To have been seperated from her parents and everyone she loved, surrounded by people who never cared for her as a person. Valued not for who she is, but what she embodies. And yet she puts on that brave front, never wavering, and fights on regardless. That scene in the snow, I thought we had a Key hijack or something ;_;

[Altima of the Gates]

Oh, THAT. Pretty sure they stated it was the Azoth dagger she got from Kirei and carried around everywhere. Note the "everywhere", which conveniently includes the cavern of the birthplace of the sum of all evils in the world. A girl's gotta have some protection down there.

She gave that to Shirou, using up all her jewels to fuel it with magical energy. He kills Saber alter with it.

But yeah, nothing really compares to Ilya. To live without hope, knowing she will die either as a Master or as the body of the grail, and even if she somehow manages to escape that end her lifespan is pathetically short. To have been seperated from her parents and everyone she loved, surrounded by people who never cared for her as a person. Valued not for who she is, but what she embodies. And yet she puts on that brave front, never wavering, and fights on regardless. That scene in the snow, I thought we had a Key hijack or something ;_;

That is the thing, if Ilya hadn't said, "maybe I could do something about it", I would agree with you. But she did, so I say she and Sakura are about the same in sympathy for me. She seems to have quite a lot of the answers if you look carefully at the info you get in the game, but she never uses it. Why? I say it's pure fatalism. She is torn between the indoctrination that the Einzberns put in her as the Lesser Grail, and what she wants, which is to be with the people she cares about. There are times in the novel she actually struggles to decide between the two. Otherwise she would not have acted the way she did in HF with Sakura. Her behavior is just really odd.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Oh, THAT. Pretty sure they stated it was the Azoth dagger she got from Kirei and carried around everywhere. Note the "everywhere", which conveniently includes the cavern of the birthplace of the sum of all evils in the world. A girl's gotta have some protection down there.

She gave that to Shirou.

But yeah, nothing really compares to Ilya. To live without hope, knowing she will die either as a Master or as the body of the grail, and even if she somehow manages to escape that end her lifespan is pathetically short. To have been seperated from her parents and everyone she loved, surrounded by people who never cared for her as a person. Valued not for who she is, but what she embodies. And yet she puts on that brave front, never wavering, and fights on regardless. That scene in the snow, I thought we had a Key hijack or something ;_;

Sakura?

Her treatment was essentially the same, and she was horrifically tortured in addition to that.

[DragoZERO]

No Zero talk, please!

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Sakura?

Her treatment was essentially the same, and she was horrifically tortured in addition to that.

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