2015-04-25, 16:49 | Link #36381 | |||||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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It'd be like if person A made a joke about American cars being crap when asked about the performance of American sports cars, and someone cries foul about double standard because person A didn't also joke that Japanese cars are crap too. How about it's because nobody had said anything about Japanese cars in the first place? Quote:
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It's no different than a car company tailoring the design of their cars to the performance/cost/environmental-concerned crowd. That game designs caters primarily to heterosexual male today is because that remains their primary customer base. As you say, nothing exists in a vacuum, you want a certain type of products? then you need to have the market for said product. Quote:
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2015-04-25, 17:05 | Link #36382 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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It's not ok to make jokes about women - it's misogynistic because women suffers more discrimination in society, thereby implying it's perfectly fine to do it to men. By that logic, would it then be ok to joke about women if the subject is about child custody? It's not ok to make black jokes because of the discrimination against blacks in America - so it is ok to make Asian jokes? or Irish? And does that change depending on where you are at? Would it be ok to make black jokes in Africa? or Asian jokes in Asia? or is it still not ok because somewhere on this planet someone in those group are still being discriminated against? Once you start going down that road, you quickly find that nothing is ever ok, because somebody somewhere will take offense because the butt of the joke is discriminated against somewhere, and the only thing that will ever matter is the flavor of political correctness of the month |
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2015-04-25, 17:11 | Link #36383 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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One rule of comedy I read about (which of course isn't sufficient to really judge, but is still a good guideline) is "don't punch down". Mocking the rich for driving gold plated cars? Knock yourself out. Mocking hobos for living in cardboard houses? Not cool. Quote:
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2015-04-25, 17:31 | Link #36384 | |||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2015-04-25, 17:37 | Link #36385 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2015-04-25, 17:48 | Link #36386 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
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But isn't this mostly only a concern for public figure ? If I make a joke without malicious intent, I don't really care if some strangers on Internet insist on calling me a racist or whatever... Quote:
Last edited by maplehurry; 2015-04-25 at 19:10. |
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2015-04-25, 18:09 | Link #36387 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Nepal quake: Nearly 1,400 dead, Everest shaken:
"Tens of thousands of people were spending the night in the open under a chilly and thunderous sky after a powerful earthquake devastated Nepal on Saturday, killing nearly 1,400, collapsing modern houses and ancient temples and triggering a landslide on Mount Everest. Officials warned the death toll would rise as more reports came in from far-flung areas." See: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...04-25-17-35-17 |
2015-04-25, 19:08 | Link #36388 | ||||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2015-04-25, 19:22 | Link #36389 | ||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2015-04-25 at 19:33. |
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2015-04-25, 19:28 | Link #36390 | |||||||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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In addition, it's far easier to have such open discussions among a group of like minded individuals. It's not any different than the discussions you see here. That's far different than joking about it during a public interview to people who probably won't "get it". It's called knowing your audience. Quote:
Of course, maybe that person would be reading into the joke too much, right? A joke might just be a joke, meant for the cheap laugh and not anything deep? That's fair but then again, it is just a car. Telling a black man a racist joke about blacks is different from telling Ford a joke about how they make shitty Mustangs. Well, perhaps both might involve police afterwards. But one will linger and do more damage than the other, I think. Quote:
Like the person in Ahn's quote pointed out, it's not this one particular instance that is the problem, but that it is reflective of an issue of a whole. Constant open use of derogatory words and innuendo, even in jest, can shape how people talk to and treat each other. Quote:
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Creating markets from nothing, shaping existing markets, using marketing to make people think, believe, and want whatever you're selling....there's a reason that marketing and propaganda are closely related. FF14 bears a cross because they chose to be like everyone else at a time when people are being vocal about wanting something different. That's a criticism, not a crucifixion. There is a market demand for female armor that doesn't look like it is being sold to horny males. But if you can continue to make a healthy profit from pandering to those horny males, why take the risk? It's a catch 22. Quote:
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I would hope that by now you have noticed that I'm a pretty leveled headed, even handed type of person. I'm not big on crusading or tossing buzzwords out just for the sake of it. I'm not big on being part of any outrage machine. While I would say I'm a feminist, I'm an old school one. A lot of this modern internet social justice activism irritates me, to say the least. A lot of it is exploited for agendas and profit (like clickbait articles). Sexism exists on both sides of the gender divide, and I don't believe "men" are the sole problem many vocal internet "feminists" claim them to be. Just because I commented on this news piece about how it reflects ingrained social gender issues does not mean that I don't also recognize how men are affected by it as well. If there's one thing in all discussions that I try to hold on to, it's perspective. Probably to the point of being overly pragmatic at times, but that's just who I am. But when it comes to something like this news piece, yeah, I'll call a spade a spade. The actors could have refused to answer the question, or chose better words to describe their opinions. These types of questions and their responses don't come up in many interviews, which is why this particular instance makes headlines. But hey, we're all guilty of saying something stupid once in a while, right? I'm not out for their heads. I'm sure they're good men who treat women great. It's already blown over, and I'm sure the movie won't be harmed by it, nor the actors careers. But as a curious instance of a moment in time, there's something to be considered and said about how the answers those actors gave even comes up in the first place and how that reflects on our culture as a whole.
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2015-04-25, 20:05 | Link #36392 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
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So show some respect and deal with it for today. |
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2015-04-25, 20:53 | Link #36393 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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Ah the silly slut stigma. It makes women feel uncomfortable about sex and achieves nothing but cock block both sexes. The word slut has no meaning to me. I think women should feel free to sample men to their hearts' content, the world is your buffet. And the people who think otherwise with their little boring, outdated ways of thinking can fuck right off.
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2015-04-25, 21:55 | Link #36394 | ||||||||||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Convenient? I'm taking this as a not-so-thinly-veiled insinuation that I'm just making shit up.
Feel free to take a look yourself. Quote:
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What I said was that the jokes, while tasteless, does not rise to the level of misogyny, since when did that become "everyone should be complete dicks!"? Quote:
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As for FF14, let's put it in the proper context. The armors in question is literally two out of hundreds where both genders are identical: Dragoon Bard Hardly something "being sold to horny males", not to mention that out of those other hundreds, there are plenty of that caters to those on the other end, armors that puts literal 6-packs on females (much to the chagrin of many female tanks), and plenty of male eye candies too. FF14 is probably the MMO that's most equal and open to everyone when it comes to armor design that's not a MUD, yet that's still sexist to some. Quote:
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I mean, I never intended for my comment to escalate into a giant wall-o-text. My point wasn't that there's no misogyny or sexism or discrimination in general etc., but really just that not every offense rises to the level of labels being used. Last edited by kyp275; 2015-04-25 at 23:44. |
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2015-04-25, 23:09 | Link #36395 |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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If I'd discuss this every day it has an anniversary in some city I'd never stop talking. The conversation is flat out not going anywhere as neither of them are willing to move from their point of view. This has been discussed at length before and is just moving in circles with minimal or no progress.
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2015-04-25, 23:32 | Link #36396 | |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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But then shouldn't the argument be going on in French?
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2015-04-26, 07:32 | Link #36397 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Je veux bien, mais ça enfreint les règles du forum.
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Granted, I didn't pick the best place to point it out, but let's call it the straw that broke the camel's back. Quote:
But my point is this: "some people", including you, treat political correctness as if it's about feelings. You argue that the problem with the joke is that it is tasteless, that it offends people. That it's all it is. And feelings, I think most people will agree, especially the feelings of a few who - you imply - will take offense at anything and everything, aren't worth thinking about. But jokes aren't funny (or offensive, take your pick) in a vacuum. That they felt comfortable - and funny - saying that is reflective of a larger problem. One that deserves mention. That's why they're deserving of censure (but not, important nuance, censorship). I'm not going to boycott the movie or anything. Tomorrow I'll have forgotten the incident entirely. I certainly wouldn't want to see them harassed in their own homes or have rape or death threats sent to them, the way "some people" (see how annoying that is?) on the anti-feminist side like to do when their hackles are up. Quote:
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2015-04-26, 07:48 | Link #36398 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Twelve arrested in Baltimore after march to protest black man's death
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0NG0RQ20150426 Germany hints at preparations of a Plan B on Greece http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0NG0HB20150425 That would be just silly. Plus there's a good portion of the population's province than have English as first language and a good deal of those francophone ( like myself) have a good grasp of it as second language.
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2015-04-26, 19:17 | Link #36399 | ||||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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If someone throw a cup of water in your face, you're within your rights to call it assault, and sue them as such if you want, but it'd be going too far if you try to call it attempted murder. Quote:
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2015-04-27, 01:51 | Link #36400 | |||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm saying it's irrelevant in the first place and shouldn't have been brought up at all. There are always assholes, everywhere.
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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