Mahouka LN - Yotsuba Inheritance Arc (Volume 16) Discussion / Poll

[Kadia]

The fighting scene is good but i like more when Katsushige unraveled Tat's first kill. It gave me chilled and his guardians' reactions are the best.

Speaking of anti-climatic, this is probably the first time i dislike Miyuki's meddlesome. I was so looking forward to see Katsushige 's ass being kicked. I wonder though whoelse are capable of using "flashcast" among Yotsuba? I find it's strange if the heir candidates do not have the capability.

[Iramohs]

wait, where did you guys read the detailed fight? from the original jap text?

There's 1 guy doing the translation for volume 17. Go to the Mahouka thread of Jcafe and you'll see the link.

Speaking of anti-climatic, this is probably the first time i dislike Miyuki's meddlesome. I was so looking forward to see Katsushige 's ass being kicked. I wonder though whoelse are capable of using "flashcast" among Yotsuba? I find it's strange if the heir candidates do not have the capability.

To use flash cast normally you have brainwash the person into remembering the activation sequence. They wouldn't do that to Yotsuba heir candidates. Tatsuya can memorize magic sequences which allows him to flash cast basically any spell he can use. There's no need for the brainwashing. So technically anyone is capable of using it, it's just a matter of being strapped down to that machine Minami used to learn all the First High entrance exam stuff.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by Iramohs

There's 1 guy doing the translation for volume 17. Go to the Mahouka thread of Jcafe and you'll see the link.



To use flash cast normally you have brainwash the person into remembering the activation sequence. They wouldn't do that to Yotsuba heir candidates. Tatsuya can memorize magic sequences which allows him to flash cast basically any spell he can use. There's no need for the brainwashing. So technically anyone is capable of using it, it's just a matter of being strapped down to that machine Minami used to learn all the First High entrance exam stuff.

Tatsuya was brainwashed. He can memorize all sequences because he has the artificial MCA which enhanced his memory and he flash casts with this. I think I read somewhere that all Yotsuba have been the subject of experiments so Katsushige must have been a subject of another one. Yotsuba have the technique but it's probably not suitable for everyone, or there are better advantages for conventional magicians.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by Kadia

The fighting scene is good but i like more when Katsushige unraveled Tat's first kill. It gave me chilled and his guardians' reactions are the best.

Speaking of anti-climatic, this is probably the first time i dislike Miyuki's meddlesome. I was so looking forward to see Katsushige 's ass being kicked. I wonder though whoelse are capable of using "flashcast" among Yotsuba? I find it's strange if the heir candidates do not have the capability.

We have seen the two magicians who accompanied Genzou during the Dahan incident also directly carve sequences into their minds.

"The two of them had a time limit of 9 minutes to reach their target location, the guard control room, a limit which was a struggle for the pair to make.

Next, the pair commenced their work. Due to their possession of powerful mental manipulation magic abilities, they did not possess more than the ordinary physical phenomenon manipulating magic from their four genetic lineages. While advancing upon the magicians defending the laboratory for nine minutes wore down their magic, it was certain that whether their enemies were many or few, mere words would not deceive them.

They directly wrote into the brains — to be accurate, they transmitted electrical signals to the brain which gave the mind data directly — using a manual to completely turn off the facility's security system. "


I highly doubt they brainwash heir candidates just so they can use normal magic slightly faster though. It seems reasonably likely that directly carving sequences into the brain is only used for the most important missions where it's absolutely necessary.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Tatsuya was brainwashed.

No, he was not. he's able to flash cast due to his artificial MCA.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

No, he was not. he's able to flash cast due to his artificial MCA.

The artificial MCA is part of the brainwashing. Add it, brainwash it so that he can use magic from memory, and with his ES, he's able to read any AS and replicate it as long as his AMCA is able to cast it. As I said, it was more suitable for Tatsuya since he could not use systematic magic, all the others were experimented but for other goals.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

The artificial MCA is part of the brainwashing. Add it, brainwash it so that he can use magic from memory, and with his ES, he's able to read any AS and replicate it as long as his AMCA is able to cast it. As I said, it was more suitable for Tatsuya since he could not use systematic magic, all the others were experimented but for other goals.

True, but his flash cast is more of a side effect than being directly brainwashed for that purpose. The magic are not carved in his mind (which is normally required for flash casting) but are recalled easily using his MCA.

Even going by flash cast standard, his is on another level due to the fact that his calculation area is in his consciousness instead of his subconsciousness.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

True, but his flash cast is more of a side effect than being directly brainwashed for that purpose. The magic are not carved in his mind (which is normally required for flash casting) but are recalled easily using his MCA.

Even going by flash cast standard, his is on another level due to the fact that his calculation area is in his consciousness instead of his subconsciousness.

What do you mean by side effect? It was what they intended, they wanted him to be able to use magic so they did this for him. Tatsuya is more suitable because he can read AS and memorize them all in his AMCA thanks to the extended memory. MCA is a mental function of the mind and it works like a second hard drive in a way since he has extended memory now. Someone else with Flash Cast would use it the exact same way he does excepted he would be unable to store more than the magics carved since his memory capacity would be lacking. MCAs are all located at the same place and magic is casted by magicians the same way, I don't remember a scene which ever implied the contrary, Tatsuya has simply two MCA. It's like a computer with two hard drives.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

What do you mean by side effect? It was what they intended, they wanted him to be able to use magic so they did this for him. Tatsuya is more suitable because he can read AS and memorize them all in his AMCA thanks to the extended memory. MCA is a mental function of the mind and it works like a second brain in a way since he has extended memory now. Someone else with Flash Cast would use it the exact same way he does excepted he would be unable to store more than the magics carved since his memory capacity would be lacking.

It is a side effect( in this case, one of the unexpected benefits from the experiment). The main goal was to allow him to use normal magic like other magicians which did not fully succeed.

For someone to able to flash cast, that magic needs to be imprinted in the mind of of the say magician. However, in Tatsuya case, due to his AMCA, he's able to do it and it can use any magic as long as it has 5 processes or less..

Flash casting is not about using magic but speed. They did not implant the AMCA for flash casting in the first place.

My argument is that his mind was not brainwashed for the purpose of being able to flash cast magic. This was just one of the side effect of the failed experiment like seeing Activation Sequence of a spell or the Magic Sequence itself.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

It is a side effect. The main goal was to allow him to use normal magic like other magicians which did not fully succeed.

For someone to able to flash cast, that magic needs to be imprinted in the mind of of the say magician. However, in Tatsuya case, due to his AMCA, he's able to do it and it can use any magic as long as it has 5 processes or less..

Flash casting is not about using magic but speed. They did not implant the AMCA for flash casting in the first.

My argument is that his mind was not brainwashed for the purpose of being able to flash cast magic. This was just one of the side of the failed experiment like seeing Activation Sequence of a spell or the Magic Sequence itself.

They were disappointed because the MCA was inferior to a normal one, it doesn't mean that they didn't want to give him Flash Cast, they said themselves that giving him the ability to use magic wasn't their only goal, he can use magic at high speed, the weak scale and IS of his MCA didn't change. It is considered as a Yotsuba secret technique so they know this method very well, it's just that Miya had the rare ability to works on the MCA so they added a second one. Tatsuya can cast magic without Flash Cast with his AMCA, but it is very slow and weak. And since that's the case, they could not let him be a candidate to be the next head so the Guardian status was the only role for him.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

They were disappointed because the MCA was inferior to a normal one, it doesn't mean that they didn't want to give him Flash Cast, they said themselves that giving him the ability to use magic wasn't their only goal, he can use magic at high speed, the weak scale and IS of his MCA didn't change. It is considered as a Yotsuba secret technique so they know this method very well, it's just that Miya had the rare ability to works on the MCA so they added a second one. Tatsuya can cast magic without Flash Cast with his AMCA, but it is very slow and weak. And since that's the case, they could not let him be a candidate to be the next head so the Guardian status was the only role for him.

I don’t disagree with this, my problem is you stating that “he was brainwashed to use flash cast” which not really accurate.

Due to the experiment and to be honest, it was mainly a failure by Yotsuba standards, He gained unexpected positive benefits such being able to see, understand, and memorize any Activation Sequence or Magic Sequence he sees.

This is what allows him to flash cast. The magic being cast is not imprinted in his mind like they normally do it.

To drive point home, he was not the only participant in this experiment, but I still have to hear of anyone who can do what he does among all those who participated in that experiment.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by maypayne

I don’t disagree with this, my problem is you stating that “he was brainwashed to use flash cast” which not really accurate.

Due to the experiment and to be honest, it was mainly a failure by Yotsuba standards, He gained unexpected positive benefits such being able to see, understand, and memorize any Activation Sequence or Magic Sequence he sees.

This is what allows him to flash cast. The magic being cast is not imprinted in his mind like they normally do it.

To drive point home, he was not the only participant in this experiment, but I still have to hear of anyone who can do what he does among all those who participated in that experiment.

If memory serves me right, his Elemental sight gave him that ability, and that the artificial Processor in his brain only allowed him to use Systematic-type magic to a limited degree as well as a form of storage activation and magic sequences.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

If memory serves me right, his Elemental sight gave him that ability, and that the artificial Processor in his brain only allowed him to use Systematic-type magic to a limited degree as well as a form of storage activation and magic sequences.

Not really, it more for keeping track or identifying something like people, object and checking his surrounding. Even during his fight with Masaki, he already knew what magic Masaki was using but used his Elemental sight to identify the location of each bullet.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

I don’t disagree with this, my problem is you stating that “he was brainwashed to use flash cast” which not really accurate.

Due to the experiment and to be honest, it was mainly a failure by Yotsuba standards, He gained unexpected positive benefits such being able to see, understand, and memorize any Activation Sequence or Magic Sequence he sees.

This is what allows him to flash cast. The magic being cast is not imprinted in his mind like they normally do it.

To drive point home, he was not the only participant in this experiment, but I still have to hear of anyone who can do what he does among all those who participated in that experiment.

He can see and understand thanks to his ES, he can understand and memorize thanks to the AMCA. It's said in the LN that Flash Cast is a form of brainwashing so Tatsuya, who can use Flash Cast has been brainwashed, and they erased his urges so it's even worst. I don' t remember if he was not the only one but it's a known secret technique of the clan and Katsushige's words imply that he's the only one able to use it in the clan currently. So I guess the previous users were from the old generations and died, or were captured test subjects, who also died.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

He can see and understand thanks to his ES, he can understand and memorize thanks to the AMCA. It's said in the LN that Flash Cast is a form of brainwashing so Tatsuya, who can use Flash Cast has been brainwashed, and they erased his urges so it's even worst. I don' t remember if he was not the only one but it's a known secret technique of the clan and Katsushige's words imply that he's the only one able to use it in the clan currently. So I guess the previous users were from the old generations and died, or were captured test subjects, who also died.

This is where you're mistaking because you're assuming using the wrong information. His flash cast is not same like the one used by the Yotsuba. It is the same principle but at another level. I've clearly stated above why he can flash cast.

This is a quote from volume 3 after his conversation with MIkihiko:

Spoiler:

Ironically, this was one advantage gleaned from the artificial virtual
Magic Calculation Area currently residing in his consciousness, which
was the ability to recall any Magic Sequence stored in his memory.

This clearly prove that he was not brainwashed for using flash cast.

concerning the test subjects, you're also wrong because if one of them was capable of performing the same feat, it would have been mentioned.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

This is where you're mistaking because you're assuming using the wrong information. His flash cast is not same like the one used by the Yotsuba. It is the same principle but at another level. I've clearly stated above why he can flash cast.

This is a quote from volume 3 after his conversation with MIkihiko:

Spoiler:

Ironically, this was one advantage gleaned from the artificial virtual
Magic Calculation Area currently residing in his consciousness, which
was the ability to recall any Magic Sequence stored in his memory.

This clearly prove that he was not brainwashed for using flash cast.

concerning the test subjects, you're also wrong because if one of them was capable of performing the same feat, it would have been mentioned.

This is the same Flash Cast, excepted the operation was on a MCA that they added. He can recall newer sequences thanks to his AMCA but the AMCA is not Flash Cast. Flash Cast was implanted into the AMCA. Flash Cast is just casting at high speed from memory, but the fact that Tatsuya has ES and that it's on another MCA gives him better advantages. They don't have to be mentioned if they are dead, it just means that he's currently the only one with it, it was clearly stated that it is a Yotsuba secret technique so it's something they knew, the new project was the Artificial Magician one.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

Flash Cast was implanted into the AMCA.

Now you're really pushing it. The AMCA was implemented but being able to recall magics was unintended result of the experiment with the AMCA.

And from which part of the book did you get the fact that flash cast was implanted in the AMCA?

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by maypayne

Now you're really pushing it. The AMCA was implemented but being able to recall magics was unintended result of the experiment with the AMCA.

And from which part of the book did you get the fact that flash cast was implanted in the AMCA?

Flash Cast is brainwashing by putting the AS into the memory, and casting is done through the MCA. Tatsuya, unlike others was experimented by Miya, who added another MCA and put Flash Cast in it, which is a Yotsuba secret technique, not something they didn't intend to do. They wanted Tatsuya to be able to use magic, he can, but it's not good enough for a Yotsuba magician so he's considered a failure who can only be a Guardian.

Tatsuya has 2 MCA, his original MCA doesn't contain Flash Cast, only his innate magics, it has a different casting speed, IS, and scale. His 2nd MCA has a slow speed, IS and scale but since Flash Cast was implanted in it, he can solve the speed problem.

Another magician with Flash Cast would not have the same advantages, it would be on his only MCA so he would not benefit from an extended memory. This magician would lack ES so he would not be able to see and decipher the AS, making him unable to replicate magics which were not carved into his memory upon sight, there would be limits too since Flash Cast would already take a place in his single MCA.

Let's take Mikihiko's Spirit Invocation for example, it was not a sequence carved into his memory but when he saw it with his ES, he was able to decode and understand it with his AMCA which grants him additional memory and it was added into it. Someone else would be unable to do that, there'd be a lack of space to add other magics.

[somerand]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

He can see and understand thanks to his ES, he can understand and memorize thanks to the AMCA. It's said in the LN that Flash Cast is a form of brainwashing so Tatsuya, who can use Flash Cast has been brainwashed, and they erased his urges so it's even worst. I don' t remember if he was not the only one but it's a known secret technique of the clan and Katsushige's words imply that he's the only one able to use it in the clan currently. So I guess the previous users were from the old generations and died, or were captured test subjects, who also died.

""Indeed...... That's practically brainwashing the brain into carving the images of the Activation Sequences into memory, then directly recalling the Activation Sequence from memory without the aid of a CAD. This ability completely bypasses the need for the CAD to spread and read the Activation Sequences......

In his situation, the calculation area in his consciousness has taken this to the next level. By being able to construct Magic Sequences from memory, he also avoids the time needed to construct Magic Sequences in real time...... This way, he has absolutely replaced the deficit in processing speed."


It was mentioned that it's practically brainwashing. "Practically" in other words almost, meaning it falls slightly short of what can be officially considered brainwashing. Anyway, there's nothing suggesting that many of the Yotsuba servants can't flash cast. We have seen them directly carve information into Minami's brain and there's nothing to suggest they don't likewise carve sequences into the brain of many of their servants/ combat magicians.

Echizen, flash cast has nothing to do with having two MCA'S. The reason Tatsuya uses his second calculation zone to flash cast is because it's the only calculation zone that he possesses that is capable of using the systematic magic that he wishes to flash cast. His first MCA is dominated by his innate ability. Flash cast is specifically stated to be carved into his memory, not his MCA. Tatsuya has a larger memory capacity than most magicians due to his emotions being removed.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by somerand

Flash cast is specifically stated to be carved into his memory, not his MCA.

Not from the book I'm reading. I would like to read the volume and and chapter where it is stated.

@Echizen777, I will say this again, they did not imprint any magic his memory for him to flash cast. This is clearly stated in the book and I've even provided the quote which clearly state that it was one of the unexpected benefit due to having the AMCA.

What they did to Minami or the other guardians to able to flash cast did not happen to Tatsuya. I don't know from where you get the part that he was brainwashed.